Cliven Bundy arrested by FBI in Portland

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It's the ground audio and video he's talking about.

That's if there even is any.

originally posted by: Psychonautics
The last thing I'm going to do in a situation like that, is to let him get the drop on me.

Once again I have to ask since you dodged, are you in LE?

It would have been impossible for him to get the drop on you in that situation, as he was surrounded, at gunpoint, because, you know, they had the drop on him.

Sorry, I didn't mean to dodge your question.

No, I am not a LEO.

But it's going to take a helluva lot more than what I've seen so far to convince me that I wouldn't have shot him had I been a LEO who was there at the time.

I don't need to be a LEO to know that my own sense of self-preservation alone, would dictate my response.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Flatfish

You actually fell for that staged photo?

Don't really care if it was staged or not, if he was aiming his rifle at LEOs during the standoff, I would have taken him out!

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

but what are you expecting to hear on an audio taken from inside a helicopter?

I'm referring to the ground forces that set up the road block and were stationed in the surrounding area - from a tactical perspective, protocol dictates that they would have had VHF/UHF radio comms. Also, take a look at this vid at 0.09sec, it appears to show body camera footage of the scene as well.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Thanks. I agree with you that any video and audio should be released. And it may eventually be. But to expect that we, the public, should have free access to any evidence in an ongoing investigation is not at all realistic.

And you KNOW if they released perfectly clear video of Lavoy Finicum pulling his gun and being shot, people (especially people here) would claim it was faked and STILL stand firm in their positions that the "protesters" were completely innocent and had every right to break the laws that they broke, and that the police murdered Finicum without cause.

It's really silly to argue what happened, when we don't know...

I apologize to the OP for going COMPLETELY off topic, as this thread is about Bundy being arrested, which should have happened 2 years ago.

Unfortunately, the time needed to conduct a thorough investigation is giving conspiracy theorists more than enough time to manufacture all sorts of alternate realities, lending credence to satirist Jonathan Swift’s recognition in 1710 that, “Falsehood flies, and the truth comes limping after it.”

There are at least a half-dozen different conspiracy theory videos, some alleging “snipers” with “.308 rifles” hiding in the trees, while others allege the same Oregon State Police officers are armed with tasers setting Finicum up for an “easy kill.” Others allege he was shot at least a dozen different times, claims that he pointed at someone who shot at him with a rifle who then ran away, etc.

None of them will admit the obvious truth that Finicum was told to keep his hands up, dropped them repeatedly, and then made a motion consistent with an attempt to draw a weapon.

Source

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Except he pulled a gun on the police.

When did he do that?

I heard that they found a gun in his pocket.

originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: xuenchen

GOOD!

Furthermore, I hope every one of those arrested on weapons charges ends up losing their right to buy and/or bear arms in the future.

Friggin nut-jobs!

I hope you lose all of your rights as well, since you don't think others should have any.

The peace-loving militia members were highly reasonable and brave souls. People like you who would murder someone for daring to have their hands near their pocket because maybe they could have a gun on the other hand... well... that might be considered less sane.

At the end of the day the cops are on video as the first to point guns. At the end of the day the gun-nutter trigger-happy cops were the first to shoot. Fact and fact. But the other side is the crazy ones, say you. Huh, interesting bias there. I guess even cold-blooded murder meets your stamp of approval.

I guess five years in prison for $100 in damages also meets your stamp of approval. Do you know both sides of the story?

originally posted by: centarix

originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: xuenchen

GOOD!

Furthermore, I hope every one of those arrested on weapons charges ends up losing their right to buy and/or bear arms in the future.

Friggin nut-jobs!

I hope you lose all of your rights as well, since you don't think others should have any.

The peace-loving militia members were highly reasonable and brave souls. People like you who would murder someone for daring to have their hands near their pocket because maybe they could have a gun on the other hand... well... that might be considered less sane.

At the end of the day the cops are on video as the first to point guns. At the end of the day the gun-nutter trigger-happy cops were the first to shoot. Fact and fact. But the other side is the crazy ones, say you. Huh, interesting bias there. I guess even cold-blooded murder meets your stamp of approval.

I guess five years in prison for $100 in damages also meets your stamp of approval. Do you know both sides of the story?

The only rights these people are being denied, are those they themselves abused. Which by the way, is the best way to
lose one's rights.

The LEOs were first to draw their guns because they knew and understood the threat posed to them.

You have no proof whatsoever, that LaVoy was shot prior to dropping his hands. That's pure speculation!

And yes, they were the crazy ones if they ever thought that orchestrating an armed occupation of federal property would ever end in their favor.

In closing, I don't have to be in agreement with the court's ruling or punishment to know that you're not going to change it with a show of force.

Only a nut-job would ever contemplate such an idiotic strategy for overruling the courts.

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: Psychonautics

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Except he pulled a gun on the police...

Do we have unequivocal proof of this or are we to rely on FBI hearsay and the chopper footage? Because I saw no weapon pulled, I saw LaVoy drop his arm(s) and he appeared to reach to his side - I saw no weapon.

And why would we have to see the gun?

If you walk in to rob a bank with your hand in your pocket, inferring that you have a gun, does law enforcement have to wait until they actually see the gun before they shoot your ass? HELL NO THEY DON'T!

could care less if LaVoy had a gun or not.

The second he did anything other than reach for the sky, I'd shoot him right where he stood.

Which by the way, appears to be exactly what they did.

Notice how everyone who followed law enforcement commands and didn't reach for their guns are still alive?

See how that works?

That was arguably the most ignorant thing I've ever seen posted on this site.

You don't care if a man shot and killed for supposedly raising a gun at police, had a gun?

Speechless.


Jesus, with people like this, I guess it's not hard to see why the world works the way it does.

Look if I were in control, I would have also shot the Bundy Ranch guy laying in the sniper position on the overpass bridge with his gun aimed at LEOs. Remember him? I would tolerate that for about ten seconds!

But then, LaVoy isn't dead because of my thoughts or actions.

He's dead because of his own thoughts & actions.

So then, in your mind the government is a king and we are all serfs?

Funny, I thought we were a free people, and free folks have as much of a right to point weapons at the government agents as they do at us.

The Supreme Court has already upheld this, we aren't beholden to them, we all stand on equal footing.

Edited because of autocorrect

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Or are we all happy for the government to proceed with a Kangaroo Court when things suit?

He's already convicted. They arrested him for driving, just like they arrested the others when they shot Finicum. They were all 'guilty' of going somewhere.

No they are guilty of many criminal charges. Have you overlooked how they have destroyed government property stolen government vehicles and broken other laws. After running through two roadblocks and almost running down a police officer in the process the deadbeat got what he deserved. At least he had the balls to live up to the kill or be killed these drama queens were shouting too bad the others don't.

originally posted by: Sargeras

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: Psychonautics

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Except he pulled a gun on the police...

Do we have unequivocal proof of this or are we to rely on FBI hearsay and the chopper footage? Because I saw no weapon pulled, I saw LaVoy drop his arm(s) and he appeared to reach to his side - I saw no weapon.

And why would we have to see the gun?

If you walk in to rob a bank with your hand in your pocket, inferring that you have a gun, does law enforcement have to wait until they actually see the gun before they shoot your ass? HELL NO THEY DON'T!

could care less if LaVoy had a gun or not.

The second he did anything other than reach for the sky, I'd shoot him right where he stood.

Which by the way, appears to be exactly what they did.

Notice how everyone who followed law enforcement commands and didn't reach for their guns are still alive?

See how that works?

That was arguably the most ignorant thing I've ever seen posted on this site.

You don't care if a man shot and killed for supposedly raising a gun at police, had a gun?

Speechless.


Jesus, with people like this, I guess it's not hard to see why the world works the way it does.

Look if I were in control, I would have also shot the Bundy Ranch guy laying in the sniper position on the overpass bridge with his gun aimed at LEOs. Remember him? I would tolerate that for about ten seconds!

But then, LaVoy isn't dead because of my thoughts or actions.

He's dead because of his own thoughts & actions.

So then, in your mind the government is a king and we are all serfs?

Funny, I thought we were a free people, and free folks have as much of a right to point weapons at the government agents as they do at us.

The Supreme Court has already upheld this, we aren't beholden to them, we all stand on equal footing.

You also have the right to jump off a cliff without a parachute, but I wouldn't recommend exercising that right.

And you also have the right to live or die with the consequences of your actions too.

Just keep pointing your guns at LEOs and we'll see how that works out for ya.

a reply to: buster2010

No they are guilty of many criminal charges. Have you overlooked how they have destroyed government property stolen government vehicles and broken other laws.

I thought the government was doing that, BLM , FBI, the courts. You are the one overlooking what this is all about, making the victims of Gubment land grab out to be the criminals.

Nice try, though.

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Except he pulled a gun on the police...

Do we have unequivocal proof of this or are we to rely on FBI hearsay and the chopper footage? Because I saw no weapon pulled, I saw LaVoy drop his arm(s) and he appeared to reach to his side - I saw no weapon.

And why would we have to see the gun?

If you walk in to rob a bank with your hand in your pocket, implying that you have a gun, does law enforcement have to wait until they actually see the gun before they shoot your ass? HELL NO THEY DON'T!

I could care less if LaVoy had a gun or not.

The second he did anything other than reach for the sky, I'd shoot him right where he stood.

Which by the way, appears to be exactly what they did.

Notice how everyone who followed law enforcement commands and didn't reach for their guns are still alive?

See how that works?

And yet when its someone who isn't white, not reaching for the sky and being uncooperative, there's boundless outrage and talk of proper procedures and reforms with a dose of racism and bigotry.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

he appeared to reach to his side

which is a very typical unconscious reflex to have if someone has shot you in your side....

These welfare-ranchers wanted to live on the government's dime. Looks like that's exactly what they're going to be doing for a long, long while.
As a bonus; they also are going to get to occupy a federal building

a reply to: NobodiesNormal

Or, you know, if you're trying to pull out the 9mm they found on your corpse, right where you were reaching for before you got shot.
Like what actually happened.

originally posted by: intrptr
You are the one overlooking what this is all about, making the victims of Gubment land grab out to be the criminals.

Please specify the "land grabs" that these protestors are the victims of.

Based on everything I've read their complaints were about the terms by which they were permitted to use land that had long been under the control of the federal government.

originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: hellobruce

Yeah, she is. Retired and teaching law in Alaska at a University, which makes her more credible than you.

Yeah. She sure sounds credible to me. And I'm the real King of England.

The Federal United States is British-controlled and always has been.
All those "courts" that you think are your courts are not your courts, if you are an American born on the land of the Continental United States. They are a mish-mash of corporate administrative tribunals and martial law courts operated by the Federal United States and the Washington DC Municipality, all operating in the foreign international jurisdiction of the sea.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Lots of people loving the police state I see.

Wait till they get gung-ho in the big cities.

Seems like many opinions are based on the circumstances of the "victims".

Boy howdy, you can say that again!

The delicious irony is ... I don't think you realize the absolute truth you just spoke.

I love the paradoxes here ...

"How do you know there was a gun? Do you have evidence?"

"Of course, Lavoy had been shot. We don't need no stinkin' evidence."

As to Cliven ... it looks like he'll get his day before a real judge and a real court ... as opposed to these folks who print up a card and call themselves "Sovereigns" ...