Republicans think that latin American women with Zika should be denied abortions

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

Why does the state or community decide instead of letting each individual decide for themselves???

The way the US republic is setup he have to let the state's legislature decide locally on important issues like abortion.

We can't make imperial decrees that bypass public representation. That would be dangerous.

Personally I would allow the individual to choose to have an abortion or to not have an abortion.
The government should not be allowed to fund it or promote it with tax payer funds.

a reply to: dawnstar

The catholic church in these countries say that if a mother can prove her unborn child has the whatever that is, then she can obtain an abortion in the effected countries.

I don't know what anyone is crying about who is in the pro-abortion crowd. I read about that the other day, and in columbia a woman was allowed an abortion at 32 weeks of pregnancy because her child was effected.

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

I'm with you there.

If they want to kill their children its not like we can stop them - heck I don't even know why we try. Its between them and God, not us and them.

We can think its sad all day long, but they don't have the same morals and its not up to us to give them morals.

I just don't want any of these women within a mile of any of my future children. Don't trust them as far as I can throw them.

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

This isn't an issue that involves anyone else but those directly involved. It would be like having a law voted on whether you can have a vasectomy or not.

You even say that you're for allowing the individual to choose for themselves. That's what I'm saying. Let people choose for themselves. You're not forcing them into anything or out of anything. It's up to them.

The Gov. isn't promoting it by simply making it available. Plus, it's not all abortion anyway. We are talking about making birth control available so that abortions hopefully won't be needed.

Isn't Puerto Rico a part of the US? Hawaii? And there are a few other locations that were mentioned in the committee hearing that have been known to have outbreaks of diseases similar to zika.

the disease itself isn't really that dangerous, the problem is that there might be a link between it and a birth defect. They are looking to use insecticides that we have deemed to not be safe if I am understanding things correctly, they are spending a ton of money researching the disease and developing a vaccine, and then they will probably bribe some manufacturer to produce it which will take over a year to do.. The cost of helping them with family planning and birth control is a drop in the bucket compared to all that.
The idea that we are gonna be providing funds for abortion to Brazil or El Salvadore, or just about any country in central or south america is really kind of laughable considering what their current abortion laws are. And although I can agree with the idea that the idea of borrowing money for foreign aide is insane, well, we probably give much more to Isreal.

the money that the administration is asking for will also go to assisting our southern states in controlling their mosquito population also. there were quite a few representative from the southern states that seemed quite interested in this, even the republican ones. like I posted already.... the committee hearing was something like an hour and a half long, maybe longer, the discussion about family planning and abortion didn't even take 5 minutes out of it.

I kind of wonder if this oh....we're gonna be funding their abortion bit is a diversion so we will spend our time arguing about that instead of watching what they do with what?? over a billion dollars in all?

a reply to: mOjOm

Who is "we"?

If you cannot pay your mortgage and are about to loose your house to the bank do you spend all your grocery money on someone else's problems?

Why don't "we" allow individuals who have some extra cash on hand donate to the cause, and leave the rest of the "we" out of it.

The U.S. is not the savior of mankind, sorry to be the one to tell you. Charity begins at home, if people want to donate their money them let them, the US has too much debt to afford to continue the pretense of saving mankind from every ill to befall the world.

I'll repeat my earlier post link, in case anyone wants to read that too.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Kitana

Hey if you want to talk about pulling our financial for everyone that's fine with me. I'm all for pulling the billions we send to other countries too and spending it here. But that's a different topic.

The fact is, like it or not, the people running this country have their dirty little fingers in pies all across the globe and this is just one of them. So I don't see the point in you bring it up as if this one issue is somehow breaking us. We send 10 times more to places like Israel for no reason at all. At least we are trying to help people here. But if you're position is that we shouldn't help anyone outside our borders, fine.

a reply to: Kitana

umm... and this is what I read

www.cruxnow.com...

a reply to: Kitana

People seem to support that viewpoint. Unfortunately, cases have started to show up in the US.

Zika virus disease in the United States, 2015–2016

That isn't their place to speak of.

originally posted by: Kitana
a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

I'm with you there.

If they want to kill their children its not like we can stop them - heck I don't even know why we try. Its between them and God, not us and them.

We can think its sad all day long, but they don't have the same morals and its not up to us to give them morals.

I just don't want any of these women within a mile of any of my future children. Don't trust them as far as I can throw them.

hello, what makes a person? consciousness? when is a fetus officially a person? is a sperm in an egg a person?

Abortions is Gods way to tell women they did an evil act.... Getting that virus was pure evil on their part....

originally posted by: vjr1113

hello, what makes a person? consciousness? when is a fetus officially a person? is a sperm in an egg a person?

IDNK, when does is a baby become self aware?

a reply to: mOjOm

I don't see how spending money we don't have is not the topic, since the topic is about sending money and what that money will be sent to cover.

Since the topic is trying to discuss exactly what the OP thinks we SHOULD be spending money for, then perhaps we should also be allowed to discuss why on earth we are sending anything at all!

I don't think its off topic at all, the discussion is based on money - I think we should discuss NOT sending any since we don't have it.

If you want to discuss what money we shouldn't be sending to other countries, then that would be off the topic of the thread. I am discussing the checks we can't cash right now concerning this brand new check the OP wants to run out and write and spend.

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed
a reply to: Kitana

People seem to support that viewpoint. Unfortunately, cases have started to show up in the US.

Zika virus disease in the United States, 2015–2016

Yes, I know that. And people will have to wear condoms, stop kissing, be careful in public restrooms with not touching anything, stop travel to Latin America if at all possible and wear tons of mosquito repellent when outdoors. Southern states will do what they always do, and spray outdoors for mosquito's (Texas does it all the time to kill off excess populations of mosquito's when they get bad already) they will simply have to double down on that, and wait for pharmaceutical companies to come up with a cure or whatever they do for the virus. They will make a profit, because people buy their cure, and in the end everyone is happy.

None of that, oddly, involves federal government or at least Federal governments involvement is minimal. One thing involves state, something those states already do. None of it involves giving tons of money we don't have to countries that aren't ours, but people with excess money who would rather see it go overseas than help people here in need, can always send it.

Honestly, what I expect is simple common sense from people and self responsibility. Is there a danger? Yes, so its good to be informed of the danger, but it is to individuals to take responsibility for their lives. The world is not a safe place, in it people get sick, they die, they get hurt. The United States government cannot save people from every conceivable harm, and this is what it seems like people want the government to do, and it is such a far fetched idea as to border the insane really.

a reply to: vjr1113

In my opinion, the second you get pregnant. This is my opinion, any abortion is murder.

I also don't care if you want to kill off your children, just stay away from mine. My morals I don't force upon anyone. They are mine and you wont be getting me to decide killing off my children is a good thing. Animals do that, animals. I am a human being and you wont change me into an animal any time soon.

So, my morals are my own, and yours are yours. I wont pay for you to kill off your own children though. It is against every thing I stand for and you cannot steal my money or force even one red cent of mine to pay for you to murder your unborn.

a reply to: dawnstar

I read something the other day, but I cannot remember the paper I read it in. I'll have to look for it.

a reply to: Kitana

Honestly, what I expect is simple common sense from people and self responsibility

I wish such a simple concept was not so far-fetched. The liberal agenda is pushing us away from common sense and self responsibility. People with common sense and self responsibility think for themselves and are generally not mindless sheep. That's bad for government. It is actually pretty sad when you really think about it.

a reply to: Kitana

they will simply have to double down on that, and wait for pharmaceutical companies to come up with a cure or whatever they do for the virus. They will make a profit, because people buy their cure, and in the end everyone is happy.

None of that, oddly, involves federal government or at least Federal governments involvement is minimal.

probably a large portion of the money they are asking for is going into research of the disease and the development of a vaccine. oh, and one republican is sounded hopeful that some of it will find genetically altering the dna of those hungry little vamps. it will go for boots on the groups study and assessing the conditions in these countries, education in communities, family planning services, collecting samples of the insects and determining where they are, ensuring that if there is a link to birth defects, trying to interfer somehow with the transmission of the virus to the unborn child, that the babies that are born with them are taken care of. and developing a vaccine.

a vaccine will take a year or probably more to develop and get distributed with the main group focus to get it being women of child bearing age. They are not really going for a cure, not for a virus that passes through the system so quickly. They wouldn't even be reacting to this probably if it wasn't for the danger it poses to the fetus, of which, I thought that was what the pro-life crowd was all about.

I'll post this again, the actual congressional hearing, what they said, what they want to do for all to read, if they like. It's an hour and 48 minutes long, lots of interesting information, very little said about family planning or abortion really.

www.c-span.org.../hearing-global-zika-virus-outbreak

personally, I have some reservations to this in that I think that the initial investment should be to determine weather there is in fact a danger to the fetus, which at this point seems likely. since if there is no danger there, then there is no reason to do anything more than watch the outbreak and ensure that it doesn't mutate into something more dangerous. I think we are just as likely to see this money going into boosting the coc aine business or importing more illegals into the country as it being legit. but, if it does indeed present a danger to the fetus, any plan that doesn't include giving the women in the outbreak areas easy access to birth control is a mistake. the birth control is much more cost effective than the lifetime care of a large number of disabled kids, and those kids would be in in some of the poorest countries in the western hemisphere, so who do you think will be sending money down to fund the care of those kids?

a reply to: Kitana

don't bother yourself, think I ran across the same article.
that's columbia though, not brazil, and definately not El Salvadore. The catholic church though, isn't budging much at all on the issue, they don't even want the birth control used.