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FBI Siege Happening Live On Phonecall

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posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 10:06 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Do you believe that law enforcement personnel have a greater right to kill in their defence of self than that of the average citizen?




posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 11:09 PM
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a reply to: diggindirt


Don't expect sanity from many on this thread. It's not their fault. Their brains have been heavily impacted by years of poisoned water then sent to government-sponsored schools where they were taught the regulations of the Authoritarian Cult to Control All Humans for Their Own Good. They've never had a civics class in which they learned both the rights and duties of a citizen of the Republic. Their brains are further scrambled by the tv and e-gadgets to which they were addicted at an early age. Taught to believe what the beautiful people on tv tell them, they flounder when those devices fail them because they've been taught to follow orders without any logical or critical thoughts. Submit or die.


Thank you, thank you,
and yes this is a very sad fact. Many young ATSer's do not understand when people in American have had enough. Many who are educated in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and are seeing that our local and in Washington government has become corrupt.

Americans are sick and tired of governments sponsored Terrorism, over reach of government powers, laws being past by governments that the government doesn't have to abide by, no accountability in our government, illegal government scandals and cover ups, the propaganda mainstream media, and so on...


This submit or die policy has been ably enforced in the the schools by police dressed in para-military gear patrolling the halls and encouraging students to rat out any and all "lawbreakers" to Police Authority.


Absolutely, this was done in Nazi Germany during the rise of Hitler, The fact is, the government of the United States tore a page out of the Nazi's control book, in brain washing our youth in our public school system and it has worked out very well for them today. The dumbing down process. I see it all over the internet, even on ATS.


The average public-school educated person under 40 years old has no idea what civil disobedience is


Your absolutely correct again.

I am 57 years old. I was taught in school to question everything, I was taught the Constitutions and the Bill of Rights.

We all learned about our founding Fathers and what freedom really is.

Freedom is not free, you have to fight for it from time to time, and yes that mean blood shed at times. The Founding Fathers wrote about it for a good reason.

The Founding Fathers, knew that the Republic government would be corrupt one day and that is why they created the Second Amendment, just for that reason.

What Americans are not being taught, is the power of the people have the right to remove a corrupt government when it become Tyrannical.

When the people become afraid of their government you have Tyranny.

When the government is afraid of the people you have Liberty.

People are now afraid of our government and have lost faith of our government right now, this alone should send a strong messaged, however many of my generation are dying out, and the new generation is already too ignorant and dumb down to understand what it means to stand up for your rights or what it is to be civil disobedience against a Tyrannical government

The right to address the government is pretty much gone today, the government does not listen to We The People any longer.

The fact is, Peaceful Protest doesn't work any longer and why I say this, it is a fact our government infiltrate our peaceful movements and always destroys it by making everyone into criminals, and at the same time the governments use their propaganda media to sway the public that peaceful movements are all radicals left wing, right wing, cults, who refuse to obey the given laws and suffer from different forms of mental illness.

We are now at a point in America that peaceful movements against government Tyranny will never work today, as this has been well demonstrated in the recent past.

So my question that I have asked before that no one can answer on ATS, is what can Americans do today to address a corrupt Tyrannical government to make some good changes today?

How should Americans do it today?
edit on 11-2-2016 by Informer1958 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2016 @ 11:47 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Piss poor planning leads to piss poor execution.
I saw no plan idea or method I saw a protest/bluff.
We don't do that. we do things when YOU HAVE no choice.
Putting yourself in a no win scenario is a horrible plan unless you are in uniform.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 01:02 AM
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Good lord the insipid propaganda that gets posted after post.

Anyone who disagrees with absurd, dishonest and errant garbage about our Constitution and American way of life are assumed to be young, poorly-educated government kiss-asses. Even when you are shown to be utterly misguided about your beliefs about what our Constitution says ...

The same things repeated by the same people, over and over and over.

Sure, people are tired of the government bureaucracy. A lot of us don't like some of the things that the people in government do.

That's the American way. Some of you though, not unlike your erstwhile, inept heroes out in Nevada and Oregon however, believe that the majority of America shares your empty pointless and utterly misplaced opinions that our way of Government itself is the problem. This is shown time and time again to be sadly, brutally mistaken.

You are a small fringe group. And I know you're going to want to compare yourself to the American Revolutionaries but that is completely laughable. Americans as clearly seen in this latest crap-shoot, do not hold these absurd beliefs that the Constitution empowers you to ignore the laws of our land at will. You don't get to ignore the rule-of-law just because you and your gun club got together and carped about the guvment.

The Bundy Gang is just starting to realize that by now.

It is an insult to basic intelligence to see these repeated cries about what the Constitution says ... particularly when, it never says ANYTHING that you claim. You only demonstrate your own ignorance by repeating the same ridiculous mistakes over and over and over.

Blathering on and on about "tyranny" and "government repression" when all that is being pointed to is the laws we have all agreed to live by. That's what a republic does ... the People elect representatives to enact their will. If they don't, or when they don't, you get rid of them and elect new ones. You don't whine and cry about it, and you don't take up arms and seize a bird sanctuary in the middle of the Oregon wilderness and claim you're doing something for "the People."

I'm 50 years old. I've been a loyal American all my life. When the individuals in government misuse their power, or go against our Constitution, I have no issue calling that out. I vote, I pay my taxes, and I obey the laws. I don't like paying taxes, I often feel that my vote is meaningless, and sometimes, I think the laws are silly ... but I don't get out my guns and get some of my buddies in the truck and go take over a state park and pretend that I'm a patriot.

The thing is, some of you just can't accept that your guy didn't get into the White House last time, or the time before that. You've been acting like petty children for the last 8 years, crying that we're living under a Tyrant. God forbid that you actually ever are under a Tyrant's heel, because I assure you, a real dictator would not wait nearly two months to deal with a rag-tag band of dissidents and criminals ... they would have been slaughtered on their first night out, and you wouldn't have a video of it to be endlessly revising scenarios about.

And you wouldn't have the opportunity to continually post this nonsense on the internet nor broadcast it. You would have Hellfire missiles so far up your alimentary canal you'd be ...

... well, you sure as heck wouldn't be posting the same $%#@ over and over and over.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 01:42 AM
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originally posted by: KyoZero
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

I do suck at sarcasm...let's try direct

One issue was an innocent group of people on land that was NOT federal land...it was TAKEN from them and when they were understandably upset...they were murdered. They MADE it federal land by moving in, wiping out a people, and taking it.

These cretins decided that they supported a welfare rancher whose done his share of bad things...not a family on a ranch they owner that was forced out.

The Oregon armed occupation was a group of potentially dangerous men who used kids and women and threatened to kill federal and state/local police if they didn't get their way. Their way induced a dangerous situation and they whined and cried when after ages, the feds got sick of their BS and wanted them out. They felt they were in God's will and all that crap...frankly I am willing to bet that all the BS on the recording was either deranged or some laughable acting

The Native Americans were in their land and then slaughtered....not the same



I did not see any threats made towards federal officials. I saw demands that the US Constitution be the supreme law of the land, not the whims of the Federal Government.

It is a bit different to say "Live Free or Die" (which is the official State motto of New Hampshire) than making direct threats at Federal officials. When the Federal Government has willingly violated Constitutional liberties, then they are the ones who have declared war on the People of the United States.

Not the other way around.

I know that I am not alone in seeing it this way - The State of Tennessee has just pulled the cord on a Constitutional Convention. 4 other States have recently gotten on board (and this was after Robert LaVoy Finicum was murdered) Tennessee being the 5th to do so.

This Constitutional Convention is an Article V Convention which is aimed at limiting the Federal Government's power and authority.
edit on 12-2-2016 by GeisterFahrer because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 01:52 AM
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Imagine that. The Old Confederacy doesn't like the Federal Government.

Well, plus Alaska, which has fallen under control of similarly-minded secessionists, but wouldn't last a day without Federal aid and wouldn't have access to a drop of the nation's oil if not for Federal dollars that have developed the Alaskan infrastructure.

I live in Georgia, and have all my life. I can tell you that our Legislature knows that the Article V Resolution is mostly a political statement, not unlike taking the Battle Flag as our State flag in the 50s in retort to segregation. We're a unique bunch down here in Gawga.

I'd actually welcome a genuine Article V Constitutional Convention though, truth to tell.

The Founders intended the People to update their Government as time goes by.

Let's clean some things up, refurbish and modernize!
edit on 12-2-2016 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 02:05 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66



Blathering on and on about "tyranny" and "government repression" when all that is being pointed to is the laws we have all agreed to live by. That's what a republic does ... the People elect representatives to enact their will. If they don't, or when they don't, you get rid of them and elect new ones. You don't whine and cry about it, and you don't take up arms and seize a bird sanctuary in the middle of the Oregon wilderness and claim you're doing something for "the People."


Yes, lets just elect some one new in Office and that will solve our problems.

Yes, lets us elect one of the two evils bought and paid for by Globalist who buy their puppets for all their special favors of stripping every ( snip ) thing in this country for overseas special interests.


the People elect representatives to enact their will.


Our Representatives are not representing We The People, the very fact they represent special interest and personal gain for themselves.

Have you heard of a poor Congressman in Washington? I haven't, its all about getting rich for these guys.

More of the same from both parties but very little for We The People but more taxes without representation.

We are being tax to death in this county, no different than the British and the fact that our Founding Fathers fought against.

Taxation with Representation.


You don't whine and cry about it, and you don't take up arms and seize a bird sanctuary in the middle of the Oregon wilderness and claim you're doing something for "the People."


You are writing to me as if I took up arms and seized a bird sanctuary?


Blathering on and on about "tyranny" and "government repression" when all that is being pointed to is the laws we have all agreed to live by.


BLATHERING? I guess you haven't read that our government lies to We The People all the time.

WMD Afghanistan, Iraq war was blamed for 911. Scandals in Washington and the on going cover ups of political corruption that We The People read every day.

I guess you believe Americans need to shut their mouth and NEVER question anything. Your post puts the government on a high pedestal.


And you wouldn't have the opportunity to continually post this nonsense on the internet nor broadcast it. You would have Hellfire missiles so far up your alimentary canal you'd be ...


You apparently forgot ATS is for everyone and ALL OPINIONS are welcome in all threads. If you don't like people's "opinion" on this thread, then perhaps you should move on to another thread to your liking.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 02:16 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Good lord the insipid propaganda that gets posted after post.

Anyone who disagrees with absurd, dishonest and errant garbage about our Constitution and American way of life are assumed to be young, poorly-educated government kiss-asses. Even when you are shown to be utterly misguided about your beliefs about what our Constitution says ...

The same things repeated by the same people, over and over and over.

Sure, people are tired of the government bureaucracy. A lot of us don't like some of the things that the people in government do.

That's the American way. Some of you though, not unlike your erstwhile, inept heroes out in Nevada and Oregon however, believe that the majority of America shares your empty pointless and utterly misplaced opinions that our way of Government itself is the problem. This is shown time and time again to be sadly, brutally mistaken.

You are a small fringe group. And I know you're going to want to compare yourself to the American Revolutionaries but that is completely laughable. Americans as clearly seen in this latest crap-shoot, do not hold these absurd beliefs that the Constitution empowers you to ignore the laws of our land at will. You don't get to ignore the rule-of-law just because you and your gun club got together and carped about the guvment.

The Bundy Gang is just starting to realize that by now.

It is an insult to basic intelligence to see these repeated cries about what the Constitution says ... particularly when, it never says ANYTHING that you claim. You only demonstrate your own ignorance by repeating the same ridiculous mistakes over and over and over.

Blathering on and on about "tyranny" and "government repression" when all that is being pointed to is the laws we have all agreed to live by. That's what a republic does ... the People elect representatives to enact their will. If they don't, or when they don't, you get rid of them and elect new ones. You don't whine and cry about it, and you don't take up arms and seize a bird sanctuary in the middle of the Oregon wilderness and claim you're doing something for "the People."

I'm 50 years old. I've been a loyal American all my life. When the individuals in government misuse their power, or go against our Constitution, I have no issue calling that out. I vote, I pay my taxes, and I obey the laws. I don't like paying taxes, I often feel that my vote is meaningless, and sometimes, I think the laws are silly ... but I don't get out my guns and get some of my buddies in the truck and go take over a state park and pretend that I'm a patriot.

The thing is, some of you just can't accept that your guy didn't get into the White House last time, or the time before that. You've been acting like petty children for the last 8 years, crying that we're living under a Tyrant. God forbid that you actually ever are under a Tyrant's heel, because I assure you, a real dictator would not wait nearly two months to deal with a rag-tag band of dissidents and criminals ... they would have been slaughtered on their first night out, and you wouldn't have a video of it to be endlessly revising scenarios about.

And you wouldn't have the opportunity to continually post this nonsense on the internet nor broadcast it. You would have Hellfire missiles so far up your alimentary canal you'd be ...

... well, you sure as heck wouldn't be posting the same $%#@ over and over and over.


Are you actually playing out your fantasy that the Federally Controlled lands out West (yes, illegally controlled land) is somehow in the best interest of you and me?

See ... there is that disconnect from reality I keep seeing in your posts.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 02:27 AM
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a reply to: Informer1958

As usual, you reduce my argument to a simplistic statement that I did not make, and then argue against that.

There are problems with the people in our government. There always has been. We deal with that and move on. We do not slander our Constitution, nor the Government that it established, nor continually make false and misleading statements claiming that simply because we personally do not like a government action (or the official in office) that we are the victims of Tyranny.

I do absolutely and without hesitation agree with you about the abuse of office by elected officials. However, the solution is not to carp and claim that the problem is with our SYSTEM of governance itself ... we need to address these bozos WITHIN THE STRUCTURES PROVIDED TO US by our Constitution and system of laws. (Which, in terms of "redressing grievances" means we bring the matter before the Courts; we don't seize a bird sanctuary.)

Taxes are lower for most of us now than they have been for much of our history.

I was not "writing to you" ... if I had there would have been a "Reply to Infomer1958" at the top of what I wrote.

I don't have to "read" that government officials lie. I know they do. People lie, in government and out.

However, everything we don't like to hear is not a lie.

Afghanistan/Iraq - Bush Administration ... to wit, specific individuals President Bush and his advisers lied to us and committed war crimes. I absolutely agree they should be held to account. That doesn't mean that the Office of The President is now forever more suspect, any more than it did when President Nixon pulled his shenanigans.

Furthermore, if Barack Obama has TRULY overstepped the powers of his office and committed "high crimes and misdemeanors" ... then let us use the solution that the Founders' provided us and impeach his butt ... but if not ... if we simply disagree with his politics ... we should be ashamed of our exaggerations and prevarications.

I patently DO NOT believe that Americans should "shut their mouths" and I certainly don't believe we shouldn't question anything and everything. I put our System of Government and the American Way of life as provided for in our Constitution on a pedestal? Fair enough, I'll own that if I did.

Ah the paradox of the frustrated policeman. What exactly are you reading and responding to "Informer"? Is it my post of my OPINIONS and the facts to back them up?

Why do you want to shut my OPINION down so badly? You try to make the same insulting suggestion in most every thread you and I interact with each other in.

Does it make you uncomfortable that others don't share your perceptions and beliefs? Perhaps you should take your own advice?

As for my part, I think you should believe what you want, and say what you choose under the rules of our community here. The fact that I tell people what I think (and that that often gets taken personally by individual members), I will not apologize for in the least.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 02:30 AM
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a reply to: GeisterFahrer

Let me make it plain ... I do not care that your take on "reality" is different from mine, so if I may, I suggest that you stop making the same personal comment to me time after time. I don't care, and your take on me is not relevant to the thread.

Can you quote what you refer to as my "fantasy" directly? Rather than taking a wide swath of my comments and restating them to meet the needs of your fallacious argument?

Thank you kindly.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 02:50 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

Let me make it plain ... I do not care that your take on "reality" is different from mine, so if I may, I suggest that you stop making the same personal comment to me time after time. I don't care, and your take on me is not relevant to the thread.

Can you quote what you refer to as my "fantasy" directly? Rather than taking a wide swath of my comments and restating them to meet the needs of your fallacious argument?

Thank you kindly.


Reality is reality. Your take on reality has nothing to do with reality, it is fantasy - propaganda driven bovine excrement.

Let me illustrate:




Decades later, part of Shoshone land would be called the Nevada Test Site and become the home of atomic weapons testing. By the time the Danns were ranching cattle and horses on the arid land, their neighbors cried foul. And the legal standing was enforced by the BLM, whose officials said the Shoshone ranchers were harming the drought-stricken foliage and parched soil. After a long legal fight, the Danns’ “trespass” cattle and horses were removed.




So, it wasn't the nuclear fallout from the Nevada Test Site that was doing the damage .... it was grazing cattle.

okaaaay





The Shoshone had a signed agreement, the 1863 Treaty of Ruby Valley, which defined their expansive territory while allowing others safe passage and even let miners develop the region’s gold deposits. Sounds like a good deal, right? Of course, the deal changed. As Nevada grew following statehood and the discovery of gold and silver, there was pressure to, ahem, revisit the terms of the agreement.


Do you know what the conditions of the 1863 Treaty of Ruby Valley were?

That the Shoshone Tribe would always hold title and deed to their land - which was forcefully reneged by the Federal Government.

Nobody gave it to them, they took it.


(ATS will not let me link to the source - just google "the Shoshone Sisters" and you will find numerous articles about this legal battle)
edit on 12-2-2016 by GeisterFahrer because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-2-2016 by GeisterFahrer because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 02:57 AM
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a reply to: GeisterFahrer

Nice, so essentially, you're right and I'm wrong. LOL. Great argument.

I have noted before in your obsession with the Shoshone that individuals in our government have ill-served their people, quite often, in favor of the ranchers and others that you favor. You might wish to learn about the treatment of the Creek and Cherokee (and others) east of the Mississippi as well, if the plight of the Native Americans bothers you so deeply. You would have little argument from me that there were people in government that cheated, lied, mistreated and murdered the Natives. That argument doesn't apply to all acts of Government across our entire history, however.

Aside from that, please note where I have argued for the justification of nuclear weapons testing in the American West.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 02:58 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66
I have also been a loyal American all my life. From the time I was a teenager, I have found reasons to disagree with my government and voice my disapproval of their actions. I have always sought non-violent means by which to express my displeasure.
One of my first clashes with government-sponsored infringement of my rights happened in October of 1969. The occasion was a national "Vietnam Moratorium Day." Students across the nation were asked to show their opposition to the war by wearing a black arm band to show reverence for those who had given their lives. (There was more to it but that was the sticky part.)
A group of us decided to participate. Our principal announced to the school that no black arm bands would be allowed in his school and that anyone wearing one would be suspended from school. He further said that if anyone wore a black arm band to school he would personally rip it off of the student's arm.
I went home and asked my parents how he could violate our right to expression. I asked, "Daddy, doesn't the Constitution apply to school principals?"
His reply was to tell me to call my cousin, the lawyer and ask him, but that in his mind, the Constitution applied to any agency that was formed and financed by government funds.
"Look, I'm just a carpenter, call a lawyer if you want to know about the law. In my mind no man can keep you from wearing that arm band. If he rips it off your arm he'll have me and the law on him."
I called the lawyer and was informed about a case decided earlier that same year by the SCOTUS. Tinker vs. Des Moines Independent School District. www.oyez.org...

I wore that arm band and got suspended from school. I sewed it to my shirt so he couldn't rip it off. I advised the principal that as an employee of a government-run school he could not restrict my First Amendment right to freedom of expression. Even told him there was a Supreme Court case decided just a bit earlier in the year on this very issue. He told me he was the boss of this school and he would run it as he saw fit. I reminded him that he was an employee of the school board and that his salary was paid with public tax dollars, making the public his employers via the school board. That's when he threw us out of school.

We went to the school board at their next meeting. We told them what had happened and presented our claim that our rights had been violated and we had been unjustly suspended from school and verbally abused by the principal in a public manner. We demanded that we be able to make up the classwork we had missed and be given a public apology.
The attorney for the board of education, having already been briefed on this testimony, immediately called them into executive session. When they returned from executive session, they assured us that our demands were reasonable and would be met. He was forced to apologize to us individually and in a public assembly and tell the entire assembly that he had infringed our rights when he had no authority to do so. He had to "take back" publicly calling us hooligans and troublemakers.

That's the way I began claiming my rights as citizen. I've continued to do just that each and every time I've recognized a violation---whether it is directly affecting me or another citizen.

And since 1969 and my first actual clash with The Authoritarian Cult, I've fought them and I will continue to do so. For our rights, not your rights and my rights, everyone's rights. I can't make distinctions between the rights of people because of their level of intelligence, or their skin color, religion, gender or food preferences. That is simply the way I was raised---everyone has the same rights and if one person's rights are endangered, every person's rights are endangered.

You have your faith so invested in politics that you can't see that some issues are beyond politics. But you must make it about politics by flinging out accusations that we're just mad because of some particular occupant of the White House. Let me tell you something friend, "my guy" as you call it, hasn't been in the White House since Jimmy Carter. He was the last major party candidate I supported, campaigned for and voted for.
It took me about 10 years to recover both politically and financially from the debacle his presidency left behind. I finally came to the realization that at the federal level, they're all bought out. The only way to change things is to begin at the local level and work hard locally to keep the crooks from moving up the ladder.

That's what I did and what I continue to do. But I do believe that civil disobedience is still a viable option that must be employed when politicians fail to do their duty.

I'm appalled that the media, in sympathy with federal and state agencies, continued to call this an "armed militia invasion" despite being told repeatedly that they were a group of citizens concerned about violations of the Constitution. I'm appalled that members of the media don't have a clue about what civil disobedience actually is!

Let me explain it. Civil means courteous or polite in one's interactions with others. Disobedience means refusal to comply.
In order to call attention to the plight of the Hammond family and many others abused by the feds, this group of people, occupied a piece of ground they believe is held illegally by the federal government. After exhausting all legal options and having all legal approaches ignored, they resorted to civil disobedience in the form of occupation.
As you can see in their first press conference, they did not refer to a militia nor pretend to be one.
www.youtube.com...
Had one taken the time to listen to what the protesters were actually saying instead of what the government and their allies at msm were saying about the protesters, one would have come away with a very different view. From the beginning, they avowed peace and eschewed violence.

Their interactions with law enforcement was polite and civil as evidenced by their meeting with the local sheriff.
www.youtube.com...
and with FBI.
www.youtube.com...
The encounter with FBI actually begins about 1:18 and at the 3:40 mark the FBI negotiator expresses the need to "talk" and "I think a dialog is the way to handle this." You can follow that dialog as it happens in that video. The 36:00 mark shows that the protesters want to abide by the Constitution. "The resolution is the Constitution of the United States." You can also hear him say, "How we get there...there's steps and things we need to do."
By the 39:00 mark they are all laughing together in a very civil manner.
By the 45:00 mark they are all sharing a joke, shaking hands and bidding each other good day like civilized humans with a disagreement do. No threats from either side. Everyone is armed and polite.

You can see all their interactions with law enforcement up until the FBI went radical on the highway. They were all filmed at the protester's request. They were all civil.

If you have obtained secret videos of the leadership of this group threatening law enforcement and "spitting on the Constitution" please, fergoodnesssakes, POST IT! Prove those us wrong in our belief that this was a civil disobedience action. Or quit calling us names.





edit on 12-2-2016 by diggindirt because: spelling and clarity



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 03:07 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 03:07 AM
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a reply to: diggindirt

I'm a leftist at heart, Dude. You don't know how ironic it is to me that I find myself continually arguing on behalf of our system of government, LOL.

Thanks for the relation of your personal history. As noted, there are many INDIVIDUALS in positions of authority that misuse the POWER of their offices, not unlike your school principal seems to have done. That does not suggest, however, that all people in government are evil, wrong, liars, tyrants, etc.

You sound like quite the little spitfire. If you actually did those things, I'd be the first to tell you how proud I was of you (except for the "my tax dollars pay your salary" bit ... that's just asinine) for standing up for yourself. Of course, kids in school have a limited right to speech and privacy while on school grounds ... but still, I would have admired your stand.

I disagree with many of your later comments for many different reasons that are utterly off-topic here.

I'm not playing the "provide more evidence of the obvious" game with you, as I've said.

Best.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 03:15 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Imagine that. The Old Confederacy doesn't like the Federal Government.

Well, plus Alaska, which has fallen under control of similarly-minded secessionists, but wouldn't last a day without Federal aid and wouldn't have access to a drop of the nation's oil if not for Federal dollars that have developed the Alaskan infrastructure.

I live in Georgia, and have all my life. I can tell you that our Legislature knows that the Article V Resolution is mostly a political statement, not unlike taking the Battle Flag as our State flag in the 50s in retort to segregation. We're a unique bunch down here in Gawga.

I'd actually welcome a genuine Article V Constitutional Convention though, truth to tell.

The Founders intended the People to update their Government as time goes by.

Let's clean some things up, refurbish and modernize!


Are you reduced to replying to some imaginary posts now? And attempting to derail by talking Confederacy? And Alaskan session? What has that to do with a civil disobedience action in Oregon?



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 03:22 AM
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a reply to: diggindirt

It may be time for a nap.

My post regarded another member's post (GeisterFahrer) about Tennessee's Article V Resolution just above mine.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 03:26 AM
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a reply to: diggindirt

Did any of the occupiers make any actual spoken threats at all? I know Finicum didn't...any of the other leaders, though? Anyone? What about mustache dude? He make any threats? Ritzheimer? Anyone else?
edit on 12-2-2016 by TheBadCabbie because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-2-2016 by TheBadCabbie because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 03:28 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66



There are problems with the people in our government. There always has been. We deal with that and move on.


On this we agree. It is the method of dealing with it that presents the thorny patch. What you don't seem to understand is that the protesters are seeking a way to "deal with it" that is fair and just to all involved. I can post the links where they say exactly that to the FBI negotiator or you can watch the entire interaction in the video I linked in my earlier post.



Is it my post of my OPINIONS and the facts to back them up?


Now I must thank you for that chuckle!
I've got a long list of times that you've been asked to back up your opinion with facts when you've completely failed to do so. I've issued that challenge again in my earlier post so I'm really looking forward to your video links which prove me (and others who disagree with your assessment of the situation) completely wrong in our beliefs.
I'm eagerly awaiting that first fact to back up your opinions. I've provided my evidence and have more if you'd like it and will take the time to understand the issues.



posted on Feb, 12 2016 @ 03:36 AM
link   
a reply to: diggindirt

The Bundy Gang was not "protesters" they were armed occupiers and trespassers.

I wasn't talking to you in my specific response to informer1958, and further, as far as our interactions go .. I've clearly illuminated on multiple occasions your tactic to continually ask for evidence when a) evidence is provided and b) the fact of the matter is common or obvious knowledge.

You're using rhetorical tactics in this. I use them myself, although sparingly.

You go so far overboard in every post to the extent of making it almost impossible to have a rational conversation.

Some of your favorite fallacies are: No True Scotsman, proof non-existence, red herring, strawman, etc. etc. etc., and of course your very favorite, Moving the Goalposts.


edit on 12-2-2016 by Gryphon66 because: Format



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