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Is Conservative Ideology Finally Dead?

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posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 09:46 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

You mean you created an extreme Strawman argument.

Yes I think we are all aware of that.




posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 09:46 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Teikiatsu


So they can chop off their arms because they believe they should be an amputee or blind themselves with bleach because they believe they should be blind, and sell their kidneys for personal profit? Oh and then get free prosthetics and/or therapy for their visual disability, and dialysis afterwards?


So that's a no on individual freedom and liberty.


This is where you conservatives contradict yourself the most.



"Individual liberty.
Stay out of my business.
No she shouldn't be allowed to abort.
Tell them they can't smoke a joint."


You're all nutso.



You're generalizing.


And.

It's correct.


"Stereotyping is a good thing."

I hear conservatives say that about urban youths and Muslims all the time.


Another massive contradiction.


I'm conservative, believe in small federal government and that many things should be left to states and localities. I am also pro-choice and pro-decriminalization of marijuana. Like I said, you were generalizing. Modern conservatives are much more moderate on social issues than you are propagating.
edit on 9-2-2016 by ExNihiloRed because: I'm pro choice not pro life lol



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 09:47 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Teikiatsu


So they can chop off their arms because they believe they should be an amputee or blind themselves with bleach because they believe they should be blind, and sell their kidneys for personal profit? Oh and then get free prosthetics and/or therapy for their visual disability, and dialysis afterwards?


So that's a no on individual freedom and liberty.


This is where you conservatives contradict yourself the most.



"Individual liberty.
Stay out of my business.
No she shouldn't be allowed to abort.
Tell them they can't smoke a joint."


You're all nutso.


"The pigs at the top are lying cheating greedy murdering monsters -- I want them to promise me a fair deal" -- Progressive party platform



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 09:48 PM
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a reply to: Semicollegiate

which ever system gives the best coverage. as a society healthcare for everyone is better than health care for some. no one is replacing free market health care, if you want to pay for better health care, go for it no one is stopping you.



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 09:51 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha

Stop. Hillary has supported universal healthcare since the 90s. Look it up.


That's because a sort of Obamacare was Mr. Clinton's baby... but he thought an intern made a pretty good humidor for his cigar putting an end to that... I've heard discussion by gop friends at the time... yes I have some. That, that is why the republicans pushed so hard for impeachment to avoid the ACA Mr. Clinton wanted to launch and he needed executive power to do it... not because I have gop friends.
edit on 9-2-2016 by BigBrotherDarkness because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: ExNihiloRed

You are clearly a Libertarian/Classical Liberal.


To call yourself conservative is to conserve the zeitgeist...
To preserve tradition.

Decriminalisation isn't a conservative value it is a Libertarian position.

Equal rights to marriage for LGBT, and pro choice are not conservative values they're Classical Liberal.


You may hold a few conservative values, but to label yourself like that is to do yourself a disservice.
edit on 9-2-2016 by CharlieSpeirs because: Correction.



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 09:52 PM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate

"The pigs at the top are lying cheating greedy murdering monsters -- I want them to promise me a fair deal" -- Progressive party platform


Source please?

Thank you kindly.



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 09:56 PM
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originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: Teikiatsu

youre right free health care is an oxymoron, i should rephrase it, id pay taxes for cheaper healthcare. and it is cheaper, Obamacare saved me hundreds so its not a myth.


Obamacare has doubled my health insurance costs for the last 5 years, and the costs have increased every year. That is not a myth.


ar15's arent special? kidding right, its probably one of the best weapons ever made to think anyone can show up at a mall with an ar15 because they're having a bad day is scary.


Best weapons? What is your metric? They may be popular, but I don't recall the Army equipping themselves with them. The AR-15 is a basic semi-automatic rifle (ie 1 trigger pull, 1 bullet) made up superficially to look intimidating.


im talking of course about abortion. if a woman decides she no longer wants to be pregnant before a certain time because of health or financial issues, she should have the right to abort. fine by me less people, birth can be very dangerous to women and is a complex issue, banning abortion flat out or limiting conditions is reckless.


Yeah, I figured. Health issues are one thing, but financial? Really? That's a good excuse to terminate an innocent life? What if the kid gets born prematurely and the mom decides she can't afford it? Kill it then? What if the child is 2 years old and a drain on resources?

Less people are fine by you? So why don't you kill yourself if it's fine by you? (I'm not advocating that, but I've noticed that people who advocate culling the population never start with themselves. Odd, that.)

Birth can be dangerous to an organism designed to get pregnant and birth babies... Fascinating. I'm not calling for flat out banning either, there are valid reasons for it. But IMO financial problems is not one of them. If a woman can't support a child, then maybe she should not participate in a behavior designed to impregnate her? Crazy thought, I know. (And please don't talk about rape, that is a statistical minority of abortion cases.)



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 09:57 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

You are clearly a Libertarian/Classical Liberal.


To call yourself conservative is to conserve the zeitgeist...
To preserve tradition.

Decriminalisation isn't a conservative value it is a Libertarian position.

Equal rights to marriage for LGBT, and pro choice are not conservative values they're Classical Liberal.


You may hold a few conservative values, but to label yourself like that is to do yourself a disservice.



I've been crystal clear I am fiscally conservative. I see your argument that puts me towards the Libertarian side of the isle because of my more liberal views on social issues. When I run down all of the issues, though, which we have no laid out, I come out just right of center conservative. I am what I believe is the future of the Conservative party. My general views on small federal government, however, permeate through all of my beliefs.



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 09:58 PM
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originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: Semicollegiate

which ever system gives the best coverage. as a society healthcare for everyone is better than health care for some. no one is replacing free market health care, if you want to pay for better health care, go for it no one is stopping you.


This is the false premise. Coverage is not care, care is not coverage.



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 09:58 PM
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a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein


Is Conservative Ideology Finally Dead?

God, let's hope so.


We can only hope so if we expect to see a brighter future.

Right?


Yes.





posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 09:59 PM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate
a reply to: vjr1113


youre right free health care is an oxymoron, i should rephrase it, id pay taxes for cheaper healthcare. and it is cheaper, Obamacare saved me hundreds so its not a myth.


Socialist health care is cheaper by force of government threat.

Free market healthcare is cheaper from competition and voluntary charity.

Which system is going to give the better care?



The one that just charged my friend 15k for a one night stay to the emergency room that saved his life.?
edit on 9-2-2016 by MrThortan because: adasdads



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 10:00 PM
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originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Teikiatsu


So they can chop off their arms because they believe they should be an amputee or blind themselves with bleach because they believe they should be blind, and sell their kidneys for personal profit? Oh and then get free prosthetics and/or therapy for their visual disability, and dialysis afterwards?


So that's a no on individual freedom and liberty.


This is where you conservatives contradict yourself the most.



"Individual liberty.
Stay out of my business.
No she shouldn't be allowed to abort.
Tell them they can't smoke a joint."


You're all nutso.



You're generalizing.


And.

It's correct.


"Stereotyping is a good thing."

I hear conservatives say that about urban youths and Muslims all the time.


Another massive contradiction.


I'm conservative, believe in small federal government and that many things should be left to states and localities. I am also pro-choice and pro-decriminalization of marijuana. Like I said, you were generalizing. Modern conservatives are much more moderate on social issues than you are propagating.


agreed same here just a little bit more extreme I'm pro-decriminalization on all drugs. Ron Paul had it right!



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 10:00 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

You are clearly a Libertarian/Classical Liberal.


To call yourself conservative is to conserve the zeitgeist...
To preserve tradition.

Decriminalisation isn't a conservative value it is a Libertarian position.

Equal rights to marriage for LGBT, and pro choice are not conservative values they're Classical Liberal.


You may hold a few conservative values, but to label yourself like that is to do yourself a disservice.


And to be fair, and to eat crow myself on generalizing, I think in this debate we have bifurcated the multiple factions of both parties into conservative vs. liberal. In that, I side with the former, notwithstanding the fact that my particular sect may be more libertarian, etc. (or a "moderate" republican).
edit on 9-2-2016 by ExNihiloRed because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 10:00 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Teikiatsu

You mean you created an extreme Strawman argument.

Yes I think we are all aware of that.


I asked a question, and instead of answering it you are engaging in ad hominem, and trying to insinuate group dismissal of my point. You could just admit you don't have a valid rebuttal.



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 10:01 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: EmmanuelGoldstein


Is Conservative Ideology Finally Dead?

God, let's hope so.


We can only hope so if we expect to see a brighter future.

Right?


Yes.




No.



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 10:03 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

Yes.
But then again, I'm not a lobbyist.


edit on 2/9/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 10:12 PM
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edit on 2/9/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: ack. nm



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 10:16 PM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Teikiatsu

You mean you created an extreme Strawman argument.

Yes I think we are all aware of that.


I asked a question, and instead of answering it you are engaging in ad hominem, and trying to insinuate group dismissal of my point. You could just admit you don't have a valid rebuttal.


A valid rebuttal to women amputating their own limbs?

That can't be what you're asking surely.

Do you often deal in absurdities?


Pointing out Strawman fallacies is not an ad hominem attack.
You're continuing in this line of absurdness.



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 10:16 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu


Obamacare has doubled my health insurance costs for the last 5 years, and the costs have increased every year. That is not a myth.

Don't you also have a kid for the last 5 years? I've had kids for 27 years now. Youngest just turned 25.

Yeah - kids are expensive. That is not a myth, either.


edit on 2/9/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)




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