@ Bullying- it is a social issue that starts at youth and permeates into adulthood...

Would it help if there were classes added to school from k to high school based on bullying?

Students would have to pass a course or courses on bullying that are just as relevant to passing as their other academic courses.

The course(s) would be psychological based but would allow the students opportunity to LEARN about what causes bullying.
And as the students learn of the causes it may help them to see their social core issues abroad with their peers and at home affecting their behaviors with other peers they take their frustrations out on.

As the students are taking courses asking questions to pass the psychological & social courses along with teachers evaluating the paperwork and working directly with the students, 1 felt maybe this could help trim the bullying that goes on in the school systems as a more direct psychological approach is taken to help the developing minds.
As it appears to be a psychological problem among some beings here...

So ATS would it help more or be a waste of time & money to add a actual class from k to 12 about bullying that is actually a psychological class to enhance moral judgment in the upcoming youth?

Feel free to add more input that you feel would help-

You cannot grow a world of bullies if you TEACH them early.
Which in turn builds a better future society...

Thanks in advance for your time any who share intelligent input-

NAMASTE*******

Unfortunately, even if informed of the consequences of their actions, people will still act. There is a reason teaching abstinence in school does not work. If anything, we should be increasing resources for people who are bullied and implementing greater consequences for people who bully.

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

LOL,

Guess what... Bullies know they are Bullies... Surprise.

They like to bully people. They already know what they are doing and do not care about your feelings. Teaching classes about bullying will entertain bullies and may give them new inventive ways to bully that they had not thought of yet.

Guess what, there will always be bullies because some people just suck.

Some people will only understand one thing.... the threat of force and physical consequences of applying force against them.

I read a report online that I can't find at the moment. But it stated that PSA type courses at even grade school level actually enhance bullying because the potential bullies get pointers on what does and doesn't work for other bullies.

Human nature is too complicated to breed out the warlike tendencies we all have. It sounds like that is what you want to see happen. To have people capable of thinking hard about the effects of their actions before taking a violent action. I really don't think people are wired for that sort of behavior modification.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

Some people will only understand one thing.... the threat of force and physical consequences of applying force against them.

Damn. Sometimes incentivizing good behavior can work too. I guess we know where you end up on the sugar v. stick debate.

Oh, and it is not uncommon for a lot of bullies to develop because of physical and emotional abuse at home. So, maybe beating them more is not always the best option.

originally posted by: frostjon361

Human nature is too complicated to breed out the warlike tendencies we all have.

Interesting. I wonder if chemical alteration of genetics would help?

originally posted by: frostjon361
It sounds like that is what you want to see happen. To have people capable of thinking hard about the effects of their actions before taking a violent action. I really don't think people are wired for that sort of behavior modification.

I hope that 1 isn't the most optimistic, again

I hear what your saying. Just seems as intelligent as humans can be your points of argument are valid.

Maybe that is why many wish there are no others, because they feel so embarrassed unhappy subconsciously for being part of a species that thinks and acts as you have said...

Bullying is a symptom. And since there are bullies in EVERY school it can be safely assumed that there is something about the school experience itself that causes it. I would tend to say that a school is basically just a social pressure cooker so it stands to reason that some kids will eventually crack.

It's designed that way. Education is based entirely around the idea of conformity. Every little dependency from the "norm" is singled out and magnified. It's designed to keep kids in line through peer pressure, feelings of guilt, inadequacy and competition. The kids who don't fit will invariably be picked on.

You want to cook beans in a pressure cooker. You probably don't want to just arbitrarily put kids through a pressure treatment that's designed specifically to weed out the bad seeds.

Haters going to hate

Its a serious issue in society, I dont think there is a remedy.
Bullying is a mental disease. probably narcissism, plenty of narcissists around ats I have noted.

People who genuinely cant accept another persons view, actions, or identity on an issue will do there everything socially they can do to tear a person apart

The interesting factor is they actually realise they have issues but cant connect them.

I was chatting with a person here who wrote a lovely thread about how he had been a tossa and how ill mannered he was, got support and stars and pats on the back.
Then went onto one of their standard tirades
Bullys, narcissists know they have an issue, they mostly cant identify that issue.

They first have to want to help themselves before they can get help, if they cant identify they have an issue they dont need help.

I have always found hitting the ground hard is the only way a person will acknowledge there error, then desire to change

Well thats how it was for me

Some people are just mean spirited and there isn't anything you can do
to change them,they enjoy being mean and bullish.

I agree with other posters, these classes won't help and they may even backfire.

But consequences may help. Too many times, it's dismissed as children playing. Physical violence should not be tolerated and I would say at the high school level it should be considered criminal.

Verbal abuse should have consequences too. You will never force kids to be friends but they can learn certain behavior is not acceptable.

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

I have mixed feelings. I don't like bullies but part of me thinks we are raising a bunch bunch limp noodle beta men. Bullies are a part of growing up. The best way to defeat a bully is with wit or learning how to fight back. Bullies thrive on kids who don't defend themselves. I just don't remember all this crying about bullies when I was a kid.

We had them. Everyone one got picked on at some point. You just took your licks and grew out of it.

My favorite bully fail.

originally posted by: frostjon361
I read a report online that I can't find at the moment. But it stated that PSA type courses at even grade school level actually enhance bullying because the potential bullies get pointers on what does and doesn't work for other bullies.

Human nature is too complicated to breed out the warlike tendencies we all have. It sounds like that is what you want to see happen. To have people capable of thinking hard about the effects of their actions before taking a violent action. I really don't think people are wired for that sort of behavior modification.

Near as I can tell this is the case. So called 'awareness' campaigns tend to have an enhancing effect upon whatever their target is. This is true with smoking, drinking, bullying, etc.

Considering this apparently inescapable result, one must question what the motivation of any particular campaign is?

If we know that anti-smoking advertising causes kids to smoke and drunk driving ads promote driving under the influence, what would an anti-racism ad campaign do? What would anti-terrorism public service ads cause? Anti-cancer ads? WTF is that all about? Does cancer watch TV?

What do people who must see these antithetical results actually expect?

Are they just making mistakes or can we infer some malicious intent?

When I was a kid I went to a Catholic school where there was no tolerance whatsoever for bullying or being unkind to your fellow classmates. If something went down, the class got a good speech on how bad behavior affects others and is looked down upon etc. Or the people involved would be pulled together and talked it out. It started from grade one and continued on until I went to public school in grade 7 I believe. Once I got to public school, though there were some great kids, there were so many animals there! Screaming and swearing and pulling knives and punching and whatever else. Day after day some kids were bullied over and over again and nothing was done.

Teachers are aware of the bullies, they know what's going on. So maybe there should be some kind of class available to show these bullies they aren't cool and the consequences or something. That bully should also have a counselor because things could be going on at home and that is why he or she is lashing out at others.

Or we could stop raising a whole culture of Whiney brats w no backbone and a poor me complex

Bullying has always existed.

I was bullied as a kid. I told my dad he said when I got tired of being pushed around I'd deal w it. And I did and the kid ended up w two black eyes and a busted lip. And a week later wanted to be my best friend. I took my licks from the Príncipal like a kid w a spine. And a pat on the back from the old man

Bullying doesn't stop in school. The real world has it all over from work and supervisors to people on the street

That's real life cupcake. And some people just suck.

Kids need to be taught how to live in a tough world not coddled and kept in bubble wrap

Christ this country is losing its mind

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

the best bullies don't get caught bullying. They hang out with other bullies.They get jobs at places that condone them being a bully and they rarely see anything repercussion for their actions! Like I said the worst bullies know how to muddy the water so when the victim tells about the bully they have plausible deniability of knowing they committed anything wrong. I had a couple of coworkers openly admit to being bullies.

Off and on I've been working in a collegiate setting since 2008, in 2012, I was told by a student I was a bully.
I got hired on full time in 2013. When he graduated in 2014, he told me he appreciated the time I spent with him, the skills he learned, and has since come to appreciate how much I worked with him to gain knowledge and thrive in the area he was interested in learning.

In my opinion I was never a bully, but I did tell him (and show him) he didn't know as much as he thought he did. And I made him redo things that he did incorrectly/ and tell him to stop whining about doing a job right.

When is it bullying and when is it pointing out someone is wrong?

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

Since bullying is about power,I really doubt that you can 'teach' them not to do it. There will always be those that feel the thrill of subduing others. Not to say I think you are all wrong,I think that you are taking a step in the right direction now. We need to confront the fact that there are bullies and what we plan to do about them.

I have my own suggestion on this that I talked out with my son one night.

1.Everyone has a martial arts class for phys ed.
2.Everyone is taught the exact same thing
3.If one of them is caught bullying others,they get punished in martial arts class just like they would in a regular dojo

So lets see here. I want to end bullying so I say to teach all the kids to fight.Am I insane? No. It must be by approved instrutors,not some yahoo that wants to train fighters. More a nod to the old school Kung Fu teachers that teach the kids NOT TO FIGHT,unless there is no other way.

I think this would be a win/win for the kids. Martial arts teaches discipline,maturity,control,balance,confidence,as well as how to fight. But here is the kicker: a school bully would look around for a victim,and realize that everyone there knows the same things he/she does. Oh oh,thats a problem. How do you bully someone that knows the same things about fighting that you do? If you get caught,your gonna get it come next class from your teacher too. The other kids will breathe a sigh of relief not only because the bully will be thinking twice,but also because THEY NOW KNOW HOW TO HANDLE THE BULLY AND THEMSELVES. They won't be cutting themselves and thinking of suicide later on down the road because no one would help them deal with this.

Now will every parent agree to this? Well you always have someone that is gonna stand up and complain in life.Can't be without drama folks. But it can be explained to them that while their child attends that school,they will participate along with the other students for their own physical and mental well being in class. If the parents don't want their kids to fight at all,then simply tell the child that they are forbidden to defend themselves,but should not let the other students know that for their own protection. If that isn't good enough for the parents,move your kids to another district that doesn't teach it,or a parochial school.(thats where some of the worst fighting is,so good luck with that)

Even most disabled children can learn some of the moves to defend themselves and build confidence. I think it would work myself. But I am open to discussion on it if others don't think it would.

Also it would help keep them fit,and prepare them for armed services if they want to go for that when they come of age.They would be better prepared for it.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Or we could stop raising a whole culture of Whiney brats w no backbone and a poor me complex

Bullying has always existed.

I was bullied as a kid. I told my dad he said when I got tired of being pushed around I'd deal w it. And I did and the kid ended up w two black eyes and a busted lip. And a week later wanted to be my best friend. I took my licks from the Príncipal like a kid w a spine. And a pat on the back from the old man

Bullying doesn't stop in school. The real world has it all over from work and supervisors to people on the street

That's real life cupcake. And some people just suck.

Kids need to be taught how to live in a tough world not coddled and kept in bubble wrap

Christ this country is losing its mind

The real world has it all over from work and supervisor. That's a position of power and in the adult world busting their lip would be followed by arrest. Basically you can quit or go above to the "good people" who decided to hire him/her which is just a fruitless. The world isn't coddled full of babies its full of vindictive, insensitive, insecure people who will do anything to be liked and will do anything to keep their job if they feel threatened. They create a workplace that is just toxic for the people they target and actively engage any effort to have the person leave or get fired. This shouldn't ever happen in a place of work as it gives the bully power over the company!

I swear its almost always a person in power who an abusive a-hole. They are also the biggest cowards and lairs! If you try to play their game they play the victim card.

originally posted by: jobless1

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Or we could stop raising a whole culture of Whiney brats w no backbone and a poor me complex

Bullying has always existed.

I was bullied as a kid. I told my dad he said when I got tired of being pushed around I'd deal w it. And I did and the kid ended up w two black eyes and a busted lip. And a week later wanted to be my best friend. I took my licks from the Príncipal like a kid w a spine. And a pat on the back from the old man

Bullying doesn't stop in school. The real world has it all over from work and supervisors to people on the street

That's real life cupcake. And some people just suck.

Kids need to be taught how to live in a tough world not coddled and kept in bubble wrap

Christ this country is losing its mind

The real world has it all over from work and supervisor. That's a position of power and in the adult world busting their lip would be followed by arrest. Basically you can quit or go above to the "good people" who decided to hire him/her which is just a fruitless. The world isn't coddled full of babies its full of vindictive, insensitive, insecure people who will do anything to be liked and will do anything to keep their job if they feel threatened. They create a workplace that is just toxic for the people they target and actively engage any effort to have the person leave or get fired. This shouldn't ever happen in a place of work as it gives the bully power over the company!

I swear its almost always a person in power who an abusive a-hole. They are also the biggest cowards and lairs! If you try to play their game they play the victim card.

Is it the person in power, or is it that those coming up in the ranks have been coddled through most of their life?

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Or we could stop raising a whole culture of Whiney brats w no backbone and a poor me complex

Bullying has always existed.

I was bullied as a kid. I told my dad he said when I got tired of being pushed around I'd deal w it. And I did and the kid ended up w two black eyes and a busted lip. And a week later wanted to be my best friend. I took my licks from the Príncipal like a kid w a spine. And a pat on the back from the old man

Bullying doesn't stop in school. The real world has it all over from work and supervisors to people on the street

That's real life cupcake. And some people just suck.

Kids need to be taught how to live in a tough world not coddled and kept in bubble wrap

Christ this country is losing its mind

Just the kind of world I want to aspire to (sarcasm)

Minds need to be changed.