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F.Calderon: Mexico 'won't pay a cent for Trump's stupid wall'

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 02:03 PM
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The Peace of God to all that belong to the light,
Dear Readers,

Any conspiracy is by definition an agreement in between people to violate Law, it could be in order to promote social disorder, subversion, tyranny, oppression, but how about when a political organization is openly declaring in a national election that if it becomes elected will force another country to do something?

That is what is called violation of sovereignty, a major kind of external political conspiracy and we have seen such situations in History:


- The Agreement in XVIII century to divide Poland in between Austrian, Prussian and Russian Empires.

- The Agreement in XIX century in between England and Chile to take by force the cost of Bolivia or could be in the other way around the agreement in between Peru and Bolivia to oppress the Chilean and British companies working in their territories?

- The coup d'état against the Government of Salvador Allende in Chile that was in many aspects arranged by the Nixon Administration.

- The Invasion of Kuwait by Sadam Huseim in order to gain control over the richest petroleum reserves of the world?

- The coup d'état in Guatemala against Jacobo Arbenz to maintain the control of the United fruit company over the Banana production in that country.

- The deal in between Vladimir I Ulianov ( Lenin) to accept the sponsoring of Kaiser Wilhem II to carry out a revolution in Russia in order to found a Soviet State that signs an armistice with Germany in WWI.

- The operation Condor that was arranged by the military governments of South America to eliminate politicians of opposition like the assassination of the former Chilean Cancellor Orlando Letelier in Washington DC.

- The boycott through terrorist acts of the 2nd Panamerican conference in Bogota, Colombia, 1948, with the assassination of the Liberal leader Jorge E. Gaitan apparently sponsored by the Peronist regime of Argentina acting in conjunction with the Soviet NKVD and implemented by Fidel Castro-Ruz.

Now, that we agree in what is an international political conspiracy, lets check what we have now, when former President of Mexico Felipe Calderon is denouncing that it is absolutely unacceptable what Donald Trump is offering in his campaign, to force Mexico to build a wall in its border with the USA.


Felipe Calderon: "Mexican people, we are not going to pay any single cent for such a stupid wall! And it's going to be completely useless,"



Felipe Calderon: "The first loser of such a policy would be the United States, If this guy pretends that closing the borders to anywhere either for trade (or) for people is going to provide prosperity to the United States, he is completely crazy."


PLs read:

www.msn.com...


Felipe Calderon: "It is incredible that a quite admirable society like the American society could produce such kind of candidates. I cannot understand that. No offence, no offence to America.


Pls read:

www.nbcnews.com...

Calderon said that children studying in Mexican schools and universities no longer wanted to go the U.S. as they had opportunities closer to home with around 4 percent unemployment, although he conceded that there were still "bad salaries" in Mexico.

Pls read:

www.cnbc.com...


"They don't want to go, they can work. For a motor company (that's) not in Detroit, I am sorry to say. They are working for a motor company in Hermosillo and Toluca, so Mazda is coming to Mexico, Honda is coming to Mexico, those kids have jobs in that industry in Mexico."


I don't know what the other members of the forum think on this offer of Mr Trump, but personally I think is pretty demagogic, since only through a war with Mexico a wall built in its territory may be constructed, and such a perspective is not only insane but by sure will be also absolutely devastating for the American Economy.

One thing is to force a country of the size and population of Afghanistan or Iraq, as big as Texas or California, that are thousands of kilometers far from our coasts to do something they don't want, and another very different is to try to do so with a country that is in our borders, shares a giant free market with us and with a population the size of almost half of our own population.

The proposition of Mr Trump is extremely irresponsible since apart of any social or economic considerations it is openly conspiratory, since in order to be accomplished it assumes the violation of the sovereignty of other nation.

The thread is of course open to the free discussion provided that the members remain in the topic and following the rules of decorum and mutual respect in the posts.

Thanks for your attention,

The Angel of Lightness


edit on 2/8/2016 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 02:12 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

I saw this earlier today. To be honest, it is just confirming what I already knew. Mexico won't ever build this wall for Trump.



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 02:20 PM
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Make America Great Again

If one uses link and clicks pull down menu for "positions" a full decription of how the wall is to be paid for can be found.

It seems entirely doable according to the detail provided.

The OP obviously is using media props without checking candidates written position.

The hysterical claims made about warfare are nothing but hyperbole taken to extremes.

Doesn't matter if one agrees/disagrees, what matters is presenting accurate information or at least balanced imformation.



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: Phoenix

Really?


Make Mexico Pay For The Wall

For many years, Mexico’s leaders have been taking advantage of the United States by using illegal immigration to export the crime and poverty in their own country (as well as in other Latin American countries). They have even published pamphlets on how to illegally immigrate to the United States. The costs for the United States have been extraordinary: U.S. taxpayers have been asked to pick up hundreds of billions in healthcare costs, housing costs, education costs, welfare costs, etc. Indeed, the annual cost of free tax credits alone paid to illegal immigrants quadrupled to $4.2 billion in 2011. The effects on jobseekers have also been disastrous, and black Americans have been particularly harmed.

The impact in terms of crime has been tragic. In recent weeks, the headlines have been covered with cases of criminals who crossed our border illegally only to go on to commit horrific crimes against Americans. Most recently, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, with a long arrest record, is charged with breaking into a 64 year-old woman’s home, crushing her skull and eye sockets with a hammer, raping her, and murdering her. The Police Chief in Santa Maria says the “blood trail” leads straight to Washington.

In 2011, the Government Accountability Office found that there were a shocking 3 million arrests attached to the incarcerated alien population, including tens of thousands of violent beatings, rapes and murders.

Meanwhile, Mexico continues to make billions on not only our bad trade deals but also relies heavily on the billions of dollars in remittances sent from illegal immigrants in the United States back to Mexico ($22 billion in 2013 alone).

In short, the Mexican government has taken the United States to the cleaners. They are responsible for this problem, and they must help pay to clean it up.

The cost of building a permanent border wall pales mightily in comparison to what American taxpayers spend every single year on dealing with the fallout of illegal immigration on their communities, schools and unemployment offices.

Mexico must pay for the wall and, until they do, the United States will, among other things: impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options]. We will not be taken advantage of anymore.


I don't know about you, but I just see a bunch of, "Mexico WILL pay for this wall!" and not much actual reasoning on how that will be accomplished.

Except for the final paragraph which reads like a coercive threat. Otherwise known as blackmail. Politics by blackmail... I can't believe that Americans would think that would be a sane approach...
edit on 8-2-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 02:33 PM
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Everyone that falls for Trump's lies deserves to have him as president.



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: The angel of light

I saw this earlier today. To be honest, it is just confirming what I already knew. Mexico won't ever build this wall for Trump.


You probably think the plan is to ask them to pay for it.



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 02:35 PM
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a reply to: TheBulk

I'm pretty sure I just posted what the "plan" is, so nice try.



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well Dar Krazysh0t,

I think Calderon deserve to be carefully analyzed, his remarks are pretty intelligent, international conspiracies usually create a so negative momentum that in no few occasions have boosted a boomerang effect to whoever begin them, there are also examples in History:

- The Kaiser Wilhem II lost WWI in spite of to have conspired to remove his own cousins the Tsar Nicholas II and The Tsarian Alexandra from their throne in Russia.

reformed-theology.org...

- President Eisenhower supported the Revolution in Cuba of 1959 against Fulgencio Batista only to discover two years later that he in fact mistakenly helped Fidel Castro to establish the first Communist State in the Western Hemisphere.

Pls read:
isites.harvard.edu...

- President John F. Kennedy became assassinated by what today it appears to be a kind of internal political plot just a month after he approved or at least tolerated a blood coup d'etait in south Vietnam and after years trying to do the same in Cuba.

Pls read:

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

- Richard Nixon was for many years one of the most fierce Communists hunters in Washington DC, in 1940s , accusing and prosecuting even politicians that were just his rivals in the public service, like Alger Hiss, and he ended his political career precisely ousted by a political scandal.

Pls read:

en.wikipedia.org...

Thanks for your attention,

The Angel of Lightness
edit on 2/8/2016 by The angel of light because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 02:37 PM
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So Trump's plan will punish the people that cross the border in a lawful and legal way.

That's just brilliant!


edit on 8-2-2016 by muse7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: The angel of light

Especially when you consider that more people are LEAVING the US to go to Mexico, than are coming in from Mexico.



From 2009 to 2014, 1million Mexicans and their families, including U.S.-born children, left the U.S. for Mexico, according to data from the 2014 Mexican National Survey of Demographic Dynamics, Pew said.

U.S. census data for the same period show an estimated 870,000 Mexican nationals left Mexico to come to the U.S., a smaller number than the flow of families from the U.S. to Mexico.


Source



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: Phoenix



The OP obviously is using media props without checking candidates written position.

Oh really? Here is Trump saying he will build the wall and make Mexico pay for it.



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well of course its coercive, did you think they'd voluntarily pay anything for the wall.

And thanks for posting the text as mobile has trouble doing so...........



Mexico must pay for the wall and, until they do, the United States will, among other things: impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options]. We will not be taken advantage of anymore.


The remittance payment are in the billions which Mexico economy has a dependence on - big leverage there.
Increasing Visa fees and crossing fees is well within possibility of accomplishing - probably amongst the easiest to do.
NAFTA worker visa fees are certainly within realm of accomplishing.
Port of entry fees again are certainly doable.
Tariffs are one of Trumps ways of not only correcting trade imbalances and bringing jobs back onshore but are also great leverage to attain immigration control via building the wall - current trade imbalance is over $58 billion according to US Census and giving nearly one billion in foreign aid to Mexico with that kind of trade imbalance and, considering their oil reserves is ludicrous.

You all can attach what ever label you want but Trump is the only one who recognizes and will use the hefty leverage we have to not only get the wall built but also get Mexico to pay for it instead of the US taxpayer.

Seems the naysayers really want wide open borders and are either part of the "free labor" group or social-internationalists at heart.

Me I'm for the American worker whom needs good paying jobs and am willing to pay the consumer prices necessary to accomplish that goal.



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 03:04 PM
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a reply to: Phoenix

All you've accomplished with this post is convinced me that you've convinced yourself that you think this plan is feasible. I see it as ridiculous, unfeasible, and VERY harmful to our international standing.

Like I said originally, there is no way Mexico will ever pay for this wall, no matter what coercive tactics Trump tries to employ.


Seems the naysayers really want wide open borders and are either part of the "free labor" group or social-internationalists at heart.


Nice slipper slope fallacy. We don't agree with Trump's wall therefore we all want open boarders... Is talking to you logically and respectfully even worth it if you are going to say nonsense like this?



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 03:04 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Trump is so stupid! He thinks he can become president and he'll be CEO of USA. What he says goes. He has NO CLUE that he cannot just wave his wand, yell at a few people, twist a few arms and suddenly, have the unilateral power to steal EARNED wages from Mexican citizens (?), increase visa fees, cancel visas, and cancel foreign aid. He doesn't understand government AT ALL.



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: buster2010

The OP said it'd possibly cause a war with us which is a very far out there claim. The OP also claimed that Calderons comments proved no way they'd pay for wall.

I countered and wholly disagree with the assertions made in the OP - I agree with Trumps methodology and further think its a successful plan given the actual leverage that exists.



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Trump is clearly a product of the group that think that every time the government screws up, it's Obama's fault. Like he has his hand in literally EVERY compartmentalized part of government. Thus he think that given the position he WOULD run each compartmentalized section of government differently.



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Phoenix

All you've accomplished with this post is convinced me that you've convinced yourself that you think this plan is feasible. I see it as ridiculous, unfeasible, and VERY harmful to our international standing.

Like I said originally, there is no way Mexico will ever pay for this wall, no matter what coercive tactics Trump tries to employ.


Seems the naysayers really want wide open borders and are either part of the "free labor" group or social-internationalists at heart.


Nice slipper slope fallacy. We don't agree with Trump's wall therefore we all want open boarders... Is talking to you logically and respectfully even worth it if you are going to say nonsense like this?


No nonsense from me at all but I've read plenty of so far................

Give some specific reasons this plan wont work in detail. All that I've seen is "Mexico wont do it" which is nothing but opinion.

On my side of debate I've shown where Trump has plenty of leverage to accomplish the plan.

Umm......International standing (opinion) is we are a weak nation becoming weaker by the day - none of which puts food on the tables of 95 million or so out of workforce right now.

So I guess we just buckle down and enjoy our poorness for the meme of international standing - bah humbug on that!



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 03:15 PM
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Mexico won't pay for the 'wall'.

And this is a surprise.... to.... who?



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 03:16 PM
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originally posted by: Phoenix
No nonsense from me at all but I've read plenty of so far................

Give some specific reasons this plan wont work in detail. All that I've seen is "Mexico wont do it" which is nothing but opinion.


Actually this thread exists to show the Mexican President's stance on the matter. Which is that Mexico won't do it. So I think that is a rather significant opinion, don't you?


On my side of debate I've shown where Trump has plenty of leverage to accomplish the plan.


You've shown that Trump has a plan to try to hold Mexican citizens' income hostage yes. Though that plans relies on the hope that Mexico will cowl to the pressure.


Umm......International standing (opinion) is we are a weak nation becoming weaker by the day - none of which puts food on the tables of 95 million or so out of workforce right now.


No it isn't. If you think this, you have a very basic understanding of international politics and standings.


So I guess we just buckle down and enjoy our poorness for the meme of international standing - bah humbug on that!


Our poorness with being the number one economy in the world?
edit on 8-2-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 03:24 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Trump is so stupid! He thinks he can become president and he'll be CEO of USA. What he says goes. He has NO CLUE that he cannot just wave his wand, yell at a few people, twist a few arms and suddenly, have the unilateral power to steal EARNED wages from Mexican citizens (?), increase visa fees, cancel visas, and cancel foreign aid. He doesn't understand government AT ALL.


All hyperbole and extreme exaggerations instead of honest debate - its predictable in content and form.

No need to confiscate EARNED wages (you guys are so dramatic) He only needs to stop cross border cash transfers which has huge leverage.

Last time I checked foreign aid was not a right nor a duty we had regarding other nations and is well within executive or congressional authority.

Same authority applies to visa fees, definitely canceling visas.

I think he understand government much better than the other candidates.




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