My proposed solution on How to eliminate crime

originally posted by: jellyrev
China social credit score

china already has a pilot program of what the OP is presenting. In china someday trustworthiness will be a score that can be easily looked up.

By 2020, everyone in China will be enrolled in a vast national database that compiles fiscal and government information, including minor traffic violations, and distils it into a single number ranking each citizen.

Wow, much appreciated!

I never knew someone else has a similar idea!

The Chinese never fails to impress me..... When the cost of labor went up in China, they tried to solve the problem with automated factories!

The only problem with China is that they are bullies... If they are not bullies, they might actually gain the world's appreciation for their smartness.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: johndeere2020

I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that this is already in the developmental stage; predictive policing is being practiced in several cities, (jurisdictions) in the US. Its in its infancy, but it will certainly be further developed, enhanced and expanded.

Starting in the schools, they have the tools to profile and collect the data to determine criminality orientation. That would be easily translated up the persons life to College or other pursuits. And to help keep track of people, they're talking about mandatory annual mental health checkups. As the government takes greater control of health care, I fully anticipate that mechanism to be employed.

Just wait for it........its coming. 1984 on steroids!

Throughout my work, I have often worked with predictive applications, some I developed myself as data analyst.

What many may not be aware of, if you feed them honest and comprehensive statistical data, it could give you some startingly accurately results (forecasts/prediction/extrapolation), more so, if you used multiple categories to calculate the ranking.

You could use statistical data under these categories:

- Number of crimes by gender
- Number of crimes by age
- Number of crimes by ethnicity
- Number of crimes by religion
- Number of crimes by specific genetic markers
- Number of crimes by other factors such as hormonal levels, consumption of illegal substance, etc.


Some of these statistics can be found by the internet and there's a startling gap between number of crimes between genders for example.

Under my unique solution for example, more women would chosen as eligible for handling a lethal weapon than men due to their relatively low crime rates compared to men.

originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: johndeere2020

Although I don't realistically expect you to actually post it here I am curious to know your age and source of education. My first reaction is that you are a melinial educated by the current governmental indoctrination system commonly referred to as public K through 12.

Regardless, your suggestion is completely Orwellian and absolutely terrifying.

I am 34. I have a degree in Manufacturing Engineering.

Most of my work has involved myself in development of predictive applications, statistical data analysis, and automation.

I've worked with computers all my life and even developed applications like automatic ranking system to help me in my work as an analyst. This is why I have huge trust in computers and automation - less on people....

...I actually think the voting system is stupid. Letting misinformed, easily manipulated masses to decide our next leaders. Using profiling and computerized analysis would yield a much more accurate result in deciding the most suitable leader for leading a nation effectively and efficiently.

a reply to: johndeere2020

Hang on... pretty much all of what you've suggested entirely revokes the freedoms and rights of the individual, the INNOCENT individual from being "monitored" and "profiled" by an oppressive state.

But let me guess, it's different when you're the one suggesting it, because you're not a threat... right? The same way everyone screams about the dangers of an oppressive government intruding on the lives of law-abiding innocent people and snooping about, you would be doing exactly the same under your proposals.

How about this for a way to reduce crime... remove poverty and 90% of the reasons people commit crimes in the first place.

The two main causes of crime are Poverty and Addiction. Maybe if we tackled these two things with REAL solutions (rather than locking up anyone who had a drink/drugs problem, and rather than ignoring the fact that poverty has a direct causal link to crime) we wouldn't be seeing the crime statistics we see?

Aside from that, crime is dropping. And why is that? You'll usually find that it drops when drug treatment programs are working in certain cities and towns, when poverty levels change to benefit the wider society and when young people feel as though they actually have hope.

Instead of pumping billions of $'s into a failing prison system that long ago abandoned the notion of "reform" and replaced it with "slavery" (profiteering off of impoverished communities) those billions of $'s would be better spent funding economic programs, education and drug rehabilitation.

a reply to: johndeere2020

It will be a marvelous method of control and the perfect way to manipulate statistics and systems to disarm the politically incorrect, thus making victims of them at the hands of those who are allowed to slip through the cracks for no other purpose than to victimize the politically or socially incorrect.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
How about this for a way to reduce crime... remove poverty and 90% of the reasons people commit crimes in the first place.

The two main causes of crime are Poverty and Addiction. Maybe if we tackled these two things with REAL solutions (rather than locking up anyone who had a drink/drugs problem, and rather than ignoring the fact that poverty has a direct causal link to crime) we wouldn't be seeing the crime statistics we see?

Have you lived in New Zealand?

I've lived there for two years. There should be no poverty for residents because the government gives enough (indefinite) support for those who are jobless or not making enough money to make ends meet for their family.

Yet, crimes in New Zealand are still unbelievably rampant. Let me think....the capital city seems just as unsafe as downtown LA. Two people I go to work with everyday, got one of their car stolen and another had his car vandalized within a year! One friend had her house broken into and stuff stolen. I only had few friends in NZ, yet, two of them had their house broken into and stuff stolen. A relative of mine had his phone stolen by a gang of adolescent boys.

Other crimes I don't want to mention...One of the problems in NZ was their law, the sentences are too light even for the "bad bad" crimes. It doesn't serve any deterrent at all.



Just my experience in NZ. Bad people will be bad even if you take them out of poverty. Most pertpetrators of crime in NZ are the aboriginal Maori and the Pacific Immigrants (Samoans, Tongans, etc), mostly males.


I have nothing against solving poverty completely. But it seems, it is not the solution to solving crime. You are however correct at substance abuse/addiction. But again, the way to solve it is to cut off the source - take out the gangs from the streets. The police can't handle the situation, they are too few. Again, the answer is providing "teeth" to the good guys like you and me.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: johndeere2020
and systems to disarm the politically incorrect, thus making victims of them at the hands of those who are allowed to slip through the cracks for no other purpose than to victimize the politically or socially incorrect.

Actually, it's the opposite.

The ranking system would use categories as gender, age, ethnicity, genetic information, religion, in addition to many other factors...

So if the ranking system included political and social correctness as one of the criterias, it would be hypocritical, doesn't it?

So NO, the ranking system will NOT include social and political correctness as criteria. Honestly, I find the concept so disgusting. It's another guise to hide some ugly truths. If anyone is looking for truth, there should be NO exceptions, NO social and political correctness!



The proposed system doesn't change anything.... You are not required to change religion, change your style etc....

Just don't break the law! Same as before, same as under this system! Only difference is that if you break or try to break the law under this system, you'll have more guns pointed at you!

There will be less damsels in distress and more damsels with the ability to fight back with lethal results!

originally posted by: johndeere2020

originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: johndeere2020

Although I don't realistically expect you to actually post it here I am curious to know your age and source of education. My first reaction is that you are a melinial educated by the current governmental indoctrination system commonly referred to as public K through 12.

Regardless, your suggestion is completely Orwellian and absolutely terrifying.

I am 34. I have a degree in Manufacturing Engineering.

Most of my work has involved myself in development of predictive applications, statistical data analysis, and automation.

I've worked with computers all my life and even developed applications like automatic ranking system to help me in my work as an analyst. This is why I have huge trust in computers and automation - less on people....

...I actually think the voting system is stupid. Letting misinformed, easily manipulated masses to decide our next leaders. Using profiling and computerized analysis would yield a much more accurate result in deciding the most suitable leader for leading a nation effectively and efficiently.

I am reluctant to even suggest this but you need to get out of the lab. What came first, the human evolving into a living breathing organism with independent thought, emotion and passion or a completely digitally contrived interpretation of what would be logical, according to an infallible digital algorithm programmed into a super computer that has no personal biological soul. As I said, YOU NEED TO GET OUT OF THE FIRGGING LAB, and experience the real human experience.

Edit: I have to agree that the system of electing our leaders is highly fallible but regardless, the INDIVIDUALS that do elect our leaders do have a natural, and I do emphasize natural right to have a voice in determining the representatives that represent them in our government. Even though I do realize that fault in our system, I still support their right to voice their opinion.

a reply to: johndeere2020

What your plan MOST fails to address is that a large amount of crimes committed are due to rash emotional spontaneity.

Domestic abuse and murders
Impromptu arguments and fights
Impulsive decisions due to sudden stress
Impaired decisions perhaps under substance influence

People can be and often are perfectly good and normal up until that one moment emotions drive them from 0 to 100 and make a single bad decision that ends them up in jail for a long time.

But aside from that, I also vote NO on your Very creative and thoughtful idea due to it infringing on human rights at multiple levels and the high likelihood of corruption that would stem from this process if implemented. Sadly, you cannot trust people to do the right thing thanks to greed and manipulation. Neat idea though! Would be great for a sci-fi story!

a reply to: gottaknow

originally posted by: gottaknow
What your plan MOST fails to address is that a large amount of crimes committed are due to rash emotional spontaneity.

Domestic abuse and murders
Impromptu arguments and fights
Impulsive decisions due to sudden stress
Impaired decisions perhaps under substance influence

One of the goal is to diminish the power of drug cartels then the substance influence factor would be gradually eliminated.

Impromptu arguments on the streets would be quickly settled with better surveillance (so it is clear, who made the first offense)

The automated system will feature real-time autonomous profiling so it will be able to make an accurate prediction of one's behavior. It won't send you to jail if it perceives a high likelihood of crime... It will only intervene and help defuse the situation.

But aside from that, I also vote NO on your Very creative and thoughtful idea due to it infringing on human rights at multiple levels and the high likelihood of corruption that would stem from this process if implemented. Sadly, you cannot trust people to do the right thing thanks to greed and manipulation. Neat idea though! Would be great for a sci-fi story!

Thanks, a third party agency will develop the profiling application.

The computer application will feature pattern - learning, neural algorithm, and data miner. In the most part, it will be autonomous and will create its own database. There is no way to tamper it unless you can hack the entire internet at a single time to tamper will all data-gathering resource simultaneously. It would be impossible to feed it false data since it takes data real time without human intervention.

Machine learning / Artificial Intelligence is one of my personal fields of research, there are already many wsearching examples, particularly with machine learning and neural logic.

But don't fear, the application itself won't require AI, only pattern-learning. No chance of the app going rogue, corrupting the data itself.


It won't infringe on any rights as it has before. Just a significant % of the population won't have the right to own guns and other defensive weapons.

You can still do, behave, believe whatever you want under this system, just don't break the law and the law under this system will largely be the same.

a reply to: johndeere2020

"GOOD GRIEF" you are technically consumed. I started to say technically insane but you are absolutely out of touch with reality. As I stated earlier, for the benefit of humanity," get out of the fricking lab"...

originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: johndeere2020

"GOOD GRIEF" you are technically consumed. I started to say technically insane but you are absolutely out of touch with reality. As I stated earlier, for the benefit of humanity," get out of the fricking lab"...

What do you mean out of reality?

Machine learning and Neural networks are common things now if you google it.

They have been employed even in forensics but not yet in ways approximating my concept.

originally posted by: johndeere2020
Make exhaustive personality profiling of every person based on personal data, criminal records, and if possible, activities on the internet and even genetics.

Remember the greatest threat to everyone's freedom is the word "safety". I see NWO stink all over this... hehe

Are you willing to completely remove all your freedoms for this?

a reply to: johndeere2020

Get through your technically thick skull that humans and the human experience is not a digitized existence superimposed on the memory of a supercomputer somewhere out in the cloud. We are a biological entity that has evolved over thousands of years of biological evolution with intricate human biological emotion and individual intelligence that can not be evaluated an sufficiently computed by any supercomputer to determine the future possibilities of what "ANY" individual is possible of or capable of doing sometime in the unknown future. Absolutely, no computer algorithm can accurately predict this and if you think this is a feasible probability, then you need to see a psychiatrist.

a reply to: johndeere2020

Legal substances are cause for rash behavior as well. Diminishing the power of drug cartels can be a difficult endeavor. Consider this very recent case where the cartels were the law. And people will always find the means to get high in some way.

Camera surveillance isn't likely to prevent the crime. It may only affect the outcome after the crime has been committed. Say Judy is cheating on cleared citizen John with Jack and John finds out. John happens to see Jack on the street while in his heightened state of emotion. John kills Jack out of rage. The camera isn't going to stop that. Not to mention a great deal of domestic-based crimes occur within the home. And homes are private property and thus do not allow for governmental surveillance. Because it's wrong.

Then there's the increasingly ominous basis of the system itself from a psychological standpoint. Do uncleared people get jobs as easily as cleared people do? Or can being an Uncleared affect your social standing? You don't have clearance, then you're obviously not that trustworthy. What other problems do you have? Will the Uncleared become separated from the Cleared over time? What about families? If Mom's a Cleared but Dad is an Uncleared, can Mom still have her gun? What if an entire family is cleared but then have to make room for their Uncleared Grandpa?

a reply to: gottaknow
Your approach is different but the end result is the same. This OP is just not justifiably supported after all arguments are considered.

originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: johndeere2020

Get through your technically thick skull that humans and the human experience is not a digitized existence superimposed on the memory of a supercomputer somewhere out in the cloud. We are a biological entity that has evolved over thousands of years of biological evolution with intricate human biological emotion and individual intelligence that can not be evaluated an sufficiently computed by any supercomputer to determine the future possibilities of what "ANY" individual is possible of or capable of doing sometime in the unknown future. Absolutely, no computer algorithm can accurately predict this and if you think this is a feasible probability, then you need to see a psychiatrist.

This biological entity of thousands of years of evolution you are so proud of also invented the computer.

The computer is like our child. The child of some of the brightest minds on the planet.

There is no limit in math. The only limit is the extent of data you can gather.

The thing about statistical data, if you combine multiple criterias together with a sufficiently large sample, whatever the result establishes a pattern that is very high probability of being duplicated in new cases.

Prior behavior, prior hormonal levels, prior circumstances, personal profiles could be analyzed from a large sample to establish a pattern to be able to make a forecast.

Of course, it cannot be 100% accurate. 90% is not bad either. No one is going to be tried or arrested for a crime that is not yet committed. Just a standardized intervention procedure that is no different than counseling. Perfectly harmless!

originally posted by: gottaknow
Then there's the increasingly ominous basis of the system itself from a psychological standpoint. Do uncleared people get jobs as easily as cleared people do? Or can being an Uncleared affect your social standing? You don't have clearance, then you're obviously not that trustworthy. What other problems do you have? Will the Uncleared become separated from the Cleared over time? What about families? If Mom's a Cleared but Dad is an Uncleared, can Mom still have her gun? What if an entire family is cleared but then have to make room for their Uncleared Grandpa?

The person's rank info will be kept confidential. It would be forbidden/illegal for prospective employers to ask for the rank of the person, even seek it out clandestinely.

Also, one's status is not permanent. The rank is dynamic due to the real-time profiling.

The gun could only be worked by the owner through fingerprint recognition. So there shouldn't be problems of different ranks living under the same roof.

a reply to: johndeere2020

Well, the solution you propose is rather utopian.

In reality, in this life and in this system in the US, you don't get what you want and you never get best solution and everything is politicized. The elites and the change agents could never resist the temptation to interject social and political correctness.

So........the important thing to do as this rolls out, is to ensure YOU are 1) profiting from the development and implementation of the system and 2) that you are clearly identified as a politically and socially correct individual and that you're a member of one of the protected classes! If you're female, you WIN!