The reason I stopped posting on ATS

a reply to: zazzafrazz

I am not complaining so much about T&C although I do have an issue with "closed for review" because I have never seen one of those threads opened back up. Some of the T&C stuff is just weird. I questioned a mod about another posters deleted thread once. I was told I wasn't allowed to talk about other peoples threads. Does that make any sense to anyone?

There needs to be a negative ratings system. I know I've heard it before "but then some people will try to suppress what they don't like" well that happens already only now you have to wade through 5 pages of two or 3 people in their own personal battle to realize the thread is dead. I don't know the specifics and don't want to just copy another system so perhaps some other posters might have a suggestion? This would help with T&C because the community does a sort of informal moderation of their own through the rankings/ratings.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: NihilistSanta

How do you want it overhauled? I'm confused, people in this thread are all complaining how much ATS has changed, and the solution from you to change the star and flag system that has been in place for a decade?

I'm up for a change, what do you suggest the overhaul should entail?

Do you acknowledge at least the staff do the best they can to fulfil the T and C, or do you think that should be changed also? Keep in mind, how do they satisfy the preference of millions of users? How would you create a T and C that does this? Would you create a rules-base for guests to adhere to or allow a system where individual t and c preference are always considered? and if you prefer the latter, how would you manage and implement that?

Exactly...if you have a problem come with a viable solution on how to make it better.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Agreed! We need anti-stars.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
The only thing that has changed on ATS is the membership, not the rules.

That is true, but i think an argument can be made that the staff's interpretation and enforceability of the rules have become inconsistent in the past 4 years.

I was once told by a moderator that they were becoming more lenient with some of the rules due to the changing nature of the internet. This seems to reflect the status of this website on a broader level. I don't think the quality is as it used to be, and that is perhaps due to the newer membership and a lack of consistent moderation when compared with the past.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

One thing for sure that shows that they are flexible is that this ATS slugfests like this thread usually aren't permitted, but it has been left open and one of the owners has participated.

It should have been closed.

I'm not sure if I read it right. by ANX (nice to see you back btw) had a thread closed 10 years ago? And we are bitching about it now? I have better things to do with my day...laters.

You know me well enough that I wouldn't enter into something like this unless I felt there was a need. I'm risking a permanent ban of Anx to provide a feedback channel for the content providers of this site, and I think it is valuable information for ATS to have.

( It's nice to see you still here as well btw )

The old owl thread was only used as an example because it came across my mind as I was typing, but I was looking for a deeper issue that I wanted members to communicate from experience. And yes, a thread like this would normally be put to the bin, and it has been twice. But the data is more valuable than the messenger.

I thought this through before posting, and entered into this expecting retribution, but hoping to pick the scab off a wound that is hurting ATS. I did this to help, not hurt, and doing it publicly was the only avenue I had available to get honest replies for staff to review.

I hope you understand my motivation.

For the sake of context, I'm going to repost something something I wrote from 2009, that is appropriate here...

Forum Fatigue

And the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round...

ATS is not what it used to be - 2003
On ATS, Ignorance Is Winning - 2004, before he was a mod
Get rid of points system on ATS. - 2004
content going downhill??? - 2004
ATS selling out: Membership quantity over quality - 2005
"Deny Ignorance" and the ATS Conspiracy... - 2005
is ats being hached/subverted from within or ? - 2005

Some quick examples (from hundreds) of how "everyone complains about the weather, but no one ever does anything about it."

As you can see, the phenomenon you point out has been a part of our community for years. Not to diminish from some valid concerns, but I call much of this a phenomenon for a reason... I've seen it before, I'll see it again, and I fully expect never to stop seeing it.

Forum Fatigue

For the most part, I suspect what you are (mostly) experiencing is a valid phenomenon of the digital age, "forum fatigue." While you may not be aware of such a thing, and there's precious little written about it, it does exist. I've been managing online forums and groups since it was possible to do so... beginning with BBS groups in the slow dial-up days, moving to the largest CompuServe forum in the faster dial-up days, and onward to ATS. It's real. It happens every day. It will never not happen. It's human nature.

When you (or anyone) first join a new digital community, there tends to be four phases of involvement:

1) Exuberant participation due to an overwhelming amount of content on subjects that interest you.

2) Fitting into the flow as you have a solid comfort level with the community and its members.

3) Frustration as the lack of new interesting content that led to #1 begins to be hard to find.

4) Ongoing contribution to compensate for the perceived lack of interesting content.

Think about it... you come to ATS... are excited to find all this interesting content from so many different people... spend time soaking it all in... spend more time figuring out how to fit in... start to become comfortable in providing contributions... then, as you get your fill of topics, become frustrated over repeat topics... and more frustration as new users don't exemplify your own level of advanced "ATS sophistication"... and even more frustrated as your personal investment in time is subverted by what you perceive to be poor topics... brining us solidly into the third item above. The same happens on any forum/board/community of focused topics.

About 53% of members post anything... but less than 1% of those members (0.5% of all members) ever move past #3 and make an effort with #4.


Now, to be clear, I'm not attributing all of your concerns to "forum fatigue," only that it's a common phenomenon for users of our type of venue. There's always room for improvement, and we've been proactive in figuring out what needs to happen, but we also temper that with our collective experience (more than myself) in running big online communities.



==================================


And a related bit I also wrote from 2010: www.abovetopsecret.com...


If you (and others) are feeling the threads are lacking of late... why not work on some good threads, instead of thread about the lack of good threads?




Also... there's a well-documented phenomena (we have at least three or four threads on the subject somewhere in here) about forum fatigue that has something to do with what you think you're seeing. The short version is something like:

(1) When you first encountered ATS, you were floored at all the content.

(2) You joined with excitement.

(3) You devoured threads and marveled at some of the topics and replies.

(4) You jumped in, excited to be a part of it.

(5) Over time, you've come to be very familiar with the topics.

(6) Over more time, you're seeing fewer "new" topics (because you've nearly seen it all)

(7) You post less because you're not seeing as much new information as when you first joined (when it was all new)

(8) You make a thread on how there's not so many good new threads any more, rather than make a good thread.

originally posted by: anxietydisorder


I post on another site continually, and sometimes multiple times a day, so I'm still very active on the internet. I'd like to know what the owners of ATS are going to do to draw back content providers like me?

All about bums on seats and revenue, who posts here is irrelevant to anyone at the top.

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
On other forums there is a lot of information going around pertaining to alleged homosexuality of Marco Rubio. Don't see much of that getting posted here.

Because it simply hasn't been posted yet.

Perhaps our members might be above that?

I could swear I have read this thread before...

Forum Fatigue indeed.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
On other forums there is a lot of information going around pertaining to alleged homosexuality of Marco Rubio. Don't see much of that getting posted here.

Because it simply hasn't been posted yet.

Perhaps our members might be above that?

Wow. I'm going with Ludicrous Online Lies with the Rubio thing. Slander/libel even.

Forum fatigue could be a part of it but I don't really think so. You see because many posters have mentioned that they are frequenting other forums. I know you guys don't want to think you have any hand in any of it and as someone above mentioned as long as the cash flows who cares.

People have complained about taxes in the past does that mean we should not complain now? All I see is minimizing going on here. Quick check on Alexa periodically tells the story though. The number of older members posting here says something as well.

As far as Rubio goes why would I waste the time or effort to post something that you think this community is "above". That is telling in itself.

originally posted by: NihilistSanta


I will give an example. On other forums there is a lot of information going around pertaining to alleged homosexuality of Marco Rubio. Don't see much of that getting posted here. I wonder why? Because there is a soft censorship over such topics. They might not come out and state it but a certain clique is waiting in the wings to shut down anything critical of their lifestyle.

Oh ya.... that's just what ATS needs, more gay bashing.
Maybe we could start a few more immigration threads too, maybe a thread on Hilary, Trump or Sanders?
Hasn't been a Muslim thread for at least 30 seconds!!

ZOMG!! Over Moderating is killing the Anti-everything vibe and soon you'll be able to distinguish ATS from Stormfront, this is not acceptable.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

The Alexa data has always been unreliable. Its numbers are only from those who have the monitor-ware installed on their computer. People who would install that are not the type to visit ATS often.

Members do come and go for any number of reasons, but it's sad that we lost some good ones due to them being banned.

Maybe by now some of them would have left anyway but, whilst they were here, they did provide the sort of quality thread that is rare to find now.

We used to have extremely amusing trolls, too. I sort of regret my part in the downfall of one of them but I did genuinely believe he was dangerous when he wasn't being hilarious. Talking flame, anyone? With a still photo provided to prove it

Crikey - if even the quality of the trolls has gone down what is this place coming to?

a reply to: blupblup

How is it gay bashing if someone is masquerading as straight in an effort to win votes but are secretly homosexual? Wayne Madsen has been covering the story for what that is worth. There is plenty of evidence such as his foam parties at gay night clubs, his arrest with his room mate who was later running a gay porn production company from his rental property. This is all off the topic btw but I felt I needed to respond because your view is the one that causes people to feel that ATS isnt "what it was". We cant discuss topics or there is a reluctance to post information because of the way it is dealt with here.

I don't get the comparison to StormFront. No one wants ATS to be stormfront or any of the other sites we are not allowed to mention (HUGE eyeroll). Here is a great example of a use for negative ratings. Someone doesn't like it they can down vote it or whatever. At least then there is content coming in for the community to decide upon and it isnt one sided.

TO SO:

OK great Alexa isn't reliable who cares the testimonies of the people in this thread are reliable. Does that mean anything at all?

a reply to: NihilistSanta


But who cares? There are many, many politicians who have "beards" as it's still not fully "accepted" to be gay and running for office.

Which is worse, the guy who hides it or the society who simply wont accept it?


There probably haven't been any threads because frankly, who gives a crap?? Seriously.
Are his policies and leadership going to be any better, less, worse or drastically different depending on the company he keeps in the bedroom?

Maybe people aren't that interested on here... maybe? I have no idea.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord those threads make interesting reading. They could almost have been written today, as I found myself nodding along in agreement despite them being written for the membership in 2004

There is very little incentive to write threads—do research, spend time editing, fact-checking, and participating in the subsequent debate—that one does so at a sacrifice to his own time and energy. Might as well just copy and paste something. Copy and pasting has become the norm. Very little thought have been put into them.

The reason I continue to write here is the odd thank you and words of encouragement that I get now and then, not to mention the one mod who applauses nearly every one of my threads. Besides writing for practice, I basically write for her and the one or two people who have said thank you—props to all my foes.

The ATS community needs to work harder to reward it's fellow members with gratitude, and not expect the management to do it for them. Thread writers will return if they learn their work is appreciated.

a reply to: blupblup

See another great example of a down vote post. This could really work guys.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You are definitely a contributor to this site. I feel your threads are under appreciated most of the time. If contributors like LesMisanthrope are being discouraged from contributing what does that say about the state of affairs?