Donald Trump: I'd bring back 'a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding'

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Swills

I 100% supported Bush on waterboarding and enhanced rendition. Plus, it worked! How many attacks took place on US soil between 911 and Bush leaving office?

No, it didn't work! It has never worked! Life is not an episode of 24! Torture as a method of getting reliable, actionable intelligence does not work! The fact that Al Qaeda is not on life support was not the result of torture, it was the result of properly organised intelligence, surveillance and people bloody well bothering to take warnings seriously (cough cough someoneslappedDubya'sheadtomakehimpayattentioncough cough).
Why do people keep trying it? Simple - because it breaks people. You can point to the wreck of a human being that torture produces and then say: "You see that thing? That's what's going to happen to you if you step out of line. So sit down and shut up."
Torture is a tool of terror. You want people to associate torture with the USA?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

He really does. Have you ever read his book? He talks about how he plays the media, this is just playing the media, getting free publicity. He knows he cant deliver on that!

a reply to: burdman30ott6

So I see what I'm dealing with when discussing politics with you. Just know, we are polar opposites in this political arena. Torture worked? Funny, because of all the reports on said torture I don't recall anyone ever praising it worked, well save conservatives but that's to be expected.

So I take it you also support these conflicts, wars, drone strikes, foreign aid from everything to cash, food, medical supplies, and weaponry? You think we've been successful in the Middle East? Do you think the world is now a safer place and you believe Trump will make it safer?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: crazyewok

There is not one single goddamn clause in the Constitution that applies to America's handling or treatment of non-Americans. Simply put: the Constitution tells the federal government what it cannot do with relation to US Citizens... not Arab citizens who fought alongside AL Qaida and ISIS.

Wrong maybe you should actually read the constitution before making ridiculous statements. The constitution applies to both citizens and non citizens.
The Constitution Applies to Terrorists

a reply to: seagull

Right, and since the present administration killed a US citizen without due process, how far away from justifying torturing our own people do we come when we condone torturing anyone?

Anyone who agrees with torture, is not human, nor humane.

Eta...I'm agreeing with you

Rich guy makes empty promises to voters to become president. Not exactly an original strategy.

But hey, we'll believe it because well...he's so different and refreshing.

just cause he says it doesnt mean anything, obama said lots of stuff he didnt do either

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Swills

I 100% supported Bush on waterboarding and enhanced rendition. Plus, it worked! How many attacks took place on US soil between 911 and Bush leaving office?

Wrong again. We learned more before waterboarding than after waterboarding. You are just repeating the same lie Giuliani told.
Giuliani says there were no domestic attacks during Bush presidency

The anthrax scare. Shortly after 9/11, letters laced with anthrax began appearing in the U.S. mail. Letters went to U.S. senators and news organizations. Before it was over, five Americans were killed and another 17 were injured. "The nation was terrorized in what became the worst biological attacks in U.S. history," according to the FBI.

The shoe bomber. In December 2001, admitted al-Qaida member Richard Reid boarded a plane in Miami with plastic explosives packed in special hollowed-out shoes. The bomb failed to ignite properly and no passengers were hurt. The incident, however, led to Americans having to remove their shoes during airport security screening.

The D.C. sniper case. John Allen Muhammad was convicted on capital terrorism charges for his part in the shooting of 16 people in and around the D.C. area in September and October 2002. Muhammad was executed last year. His 17-year-old accomplice, Lee Boyd Malvo, was sentenced to life in prison.

2002 attack against El Al ticket counter at LAX. Hesham Mohamed Hadayet opened fire at an El Al Airlines ticket counter at Los Angeles International Airport, killing two people and wounding four others before being shot dead. Media Matters found a 2004 Justice Department report that Hadayet's case had been "officially designated as an act of international terrorism."

Campus attack at UNC. In March 2006, a University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill graduate drove an SUV onto campus, striking nine pedestrians. Reza Taheri-azar reportedly stated in a letter: "I was aiming to follow in the footsteps of one of my role models, Mohammad Atta, one of the 9/11/01 hijackers, who obtained a doctorate degree."

originally posted by: illustratum
a reply to: Swills

So what is your solution?

Diplomacy with political correctness on the top?

So in your eyes, the only choice is between diplomacy & torture? You honestly can't think of any other options?

Trump is the only anti-war candidate. The rest are war hawks including Sanders, although I think he only is because its what the people seem to want.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: illustratum
a reply to: crazyewok

Talking about the standards that hurts us?

Because of a PC culture that have been the most absurd and abused excuse in political arena in decades.

That have skewed our original standards into an abyss of multiculturalism that you defend without not even knowing it.

Cut that bull# clap trap out.

This is not about PC.

Torture is wrong, peroid.

Honestly not torturing someone is now PC?

Has the world gone crazy?

originally posted by: illustratumThat have skewed our original standards into an abyss of multiculturalism that you defend without not even knowing it.

What the #?

Are we even on the same topic here?

Were have I even mentioned multiculturalism ? Let alone defended the dammed thing!


This thread is about torture.

Daesh are not part of humanity and are unredeemable so who cares.

Well put them in a line and if waterboarding doesn't get ya any respect lop their head off and go 2 down in like and ask them if no results keep skipping around and keep lopping off heads. It works as good as putting flares up their backside ,proven.

originally posted by: illustratum
a reply to: spinalremain

its actually whatever you think or make out of it.

torture have little to nothing in effect ..but just the debate about it make people cringe.

whining.. throwing tantrums about rights of people? rights people already know about in heart...really we all do.

but we had to make a whine thread with no solutions just NO because of this and that...

yeah PC culture debating nonsense and tearing sentences apart without getting close to any solution.

I would prefer if the US didn't have to justify it's ridiculous defense budget by creating ISIS type enemies and then combating them for decades.

So when you ask for solutions, I offer the profound idea of the US getting out of every single mid East crisis and leaving them to their devices. This is where their hatred stems from. From France and England carving their land up into separate states after WWI, to the post WW2 founding of Israel. It all stems from western interference into their homeland in the name of oil rights.


So lets discuss this logically. Is the problem whether or not to torture some ISIL guy, or to fix the cause of the problem to begin with?

Again, PC has nothing to do with this. PC is not referring to a kid with Down Syndrome a retard. We are talking about bloodshed and breaking bones for intel. You're talking about feelings.

a reply to: spinalremain



i think more countries should help with the process, but again..talking is taking so long it looks more like an agenda is not agreed on.

we are talking about human rights and what is right and what is wrong when all of this is just about profit and power with no morals and no ethics on the top making decisions.

we at the bottom talking about details.

its sad that the US have not been able to even putting their banksters/insurance demons in prisons...people like Hillary and Bill can just run around making a mess looking like children doing tricks.

but when a guy like Trump make statements like this people cant sleep..!
he is a minor compared to these animals who has run the west for a long time.

a reply to: Dumbass

An intelligent person who does stupid things, is still stupid. Or another way of looking at it is a persons intelligence may be judged by the wisdom of his or her actions.

Torching people is stupid and rarely serves the intended purpose, unless of course that purpose is inflicting pain for the sake of the matter.

Trump however IMHO is responding to a stupid question, with a stupid quote, and with a nefarious agenda.

a reply to: illustratum

Solutions?

OK.

There is a necessity that the United State intelligence apparatus', both military and civilian to put more emphasis on humint.

This reliance on electronic eaves-dropping is all very well and good, until the bad guys stop talking, or talk in code, or round about.

It has cost us dearly in times past and, stands to reason, will again.

You need people on the ground who speak the language, know the customs, can deal with the locals in such a fashion that they can winkle out information that all the electronic surveillance in the world will miss.

Our intelligence is far too one sided. That needs to change, yesterday, actually decades ago. Spies. Informants. Then maybe, just maybe, barbarities such as waterboarding won't be necessary.

In any case, it shouldn't be so blithely bandied about so casually. It's torture.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

Yes, yes they are human. A monstrous sort of human, but human none the less.

Don't use that sort of dehumanizing reasoning to justify. That's a slope coated with all sorts of slippery goodness.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

They are unredeemable, but we are still human beings. I am a conservative, but I cannot condone torture myself. If they don't talk, just put a bullet in their head, its war after all, but don't torture.

WE are better than such things.

a reply to: Kitana

We're supposed to be, anyway...

The only thing stopping torture right now by the US is this executive order...

m.whitehouse.gov...


For those who think this is some pipe dream.