Serious Question For Those Of Religous Faith

Just observe the charitability of various secularists and non-Abrahamic religionists. We can find wonderful caring people everywhere regardless of any scriptural dictates. Charity and good will are functions of co-operation within a species. Obviously co-operation occurred long before humans had any sort of spiritual revelations or insight. It's fine for religion to reinforce that positive trait in people, but not to hijack and claim full credit for it. We all know deep down whether we do good deeds out of true compassion or psychological/moral compensation. We have all seen exploitative mega-corporations donating a smidgen of their obscene profits to a pet charity. Let us take clear opportunities to help others with gratitude, not self-congratulation. Great topic.

M

a reply to: Montalabix

Men have always had spiritual awareness of something more than themselves and charity, in its classical form not just giving to the poor kind, was something they practised because they did not know if they would be entertaining angles unawares.

I have the same thought all the time. Hell is a scare tactic and heaven is a selling point. Churches that evangelize use hell to scare you into becoming Christian, and by my own experience I was told I might not go to heaven if I don't get baptized thus saved, but they wouldn't let me get baptized unless I verbally stated in a series of studies that I was in full agreement with their doctrines. I was not.

So I sent the pastor an e-mail calling him a charlatan and said that his baptisms only get people wet. I'm not welcome their anymore.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Am I saved, yes , do I believe in Christ, yes.

Do I Need to shove scriptures down someone else's throat all the time, Absolutely NOT.

I cannot, ChesterJohn , force ANYONE, to know exactly what I know, some must drink milk before they can eat meat, must crawl before they can walk. And, while they are going through these various stages of life ( some are not so good ) Empathy is what I have for others.

I don't need a SCRIPT-ure for that. Bullying Religion (s) are not what people need.


Have you ever had an experience with God? I have. I know He exists. But, it's up to the individual to decide for themselves.

And the light shines in me, yes, it does.

That is an interesting perspective if in fact our supposed primate ancestors believed in Angels and wanted to impress them. I think the foremost authority on the subject would be Koko the gorilla. I wonder if she has ever replied to such a question. Thanks for your reply!
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Sell your cloak and buy a sword. The time draws near.

a reply to: DaphneApollo Milk before meat? Isn't that a lds saying?

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

I'll be blunt: Yes, I'm selfish as ___ spiritually. It literally took a lifetime of God putting me in check to get me to stop trying to take over the world. And now, I do my good deeds to help others, to gain favor with God as one of his servants, and to spite Shaytan & the people who willingly follow his suggestions. In my "original, nonreligious form", I'm actually pretty vengeful, domineering & cynical; can see the bad in nearly anything; and don't forget a slight or offense. My religious beliefs are what have helped me overcome these, which is literally the point in the 1st phase of "jihad": to overcome our vices and personal weaknesses.

And luckily, God told me that "All Life is Precious" and chastised me for not being forgiving and merciful. Plus the Qur'an tells us that if someone comes to us for peace, we should accept it. Because of these reasons and more, I started trying to become an example of these tenets. I even tried to become a personification of the 7 Virtues but failed miserably at it lol. But understand something, I studied military conquerors long before I studied nonviolent leaders. I choose to fight fire with water, anger with laughter or apathy, sadness with happiness, etc. And instead of manipulating people in a bad way, I use the power of suggestion to encourage people to better themselves (it rarely works this way, but whatever).

To put it another way, God doesn't need me at all. There is literally nothing I can do for Him. I need Him, His guidance, and His forgiveness and I'm willing to work to get it. Sometimes. I'm still hard headed at times, so I still have to get put in check from time to time.

So to be blunt, if there were no God, no Heaven, or no Hell, I'd be a monster. Instead of exposing the corruptions of the world, I'd be an example of them. Of course, I'd still treat my allies & followers "kindly", and I'd stand up against what I believed was wrong. But I definitely wouldn't be non-violent, would try to take over every political and economic market possible, and definitely wouldn't believe in democracy (my religious beliefs are what made me start accepting the opinions of others). Human laws are weak because humans can always override them or get around them. But God let me know that no matter how "clever" I am against other humans, there's nothing I can do to avoid or trick Him.

Ever heard of Marc Rich or Jacob Schiff? I'd probably be some demagogue version of them, though maybe I'd have a pop culture following too. Oh & I'd try to have a child with a woman from every ethnic group in the world. I used to want to be a genetic engineer & I was always curious what would happen if we could unite all of the human bloodlines. Obviously I can't do that on my current path though & I've realized why that would be stupid, selfish, and horrible as a parent anyway. But there are probably hundreds of things like this that I would do or look into if not for my beliefs.

Hmmm, let's see ....

This morning when I saw that little old lady struggling to reach something on the shelf at the grocery store. I totally paused and calculated how many "Heaven" points I would be earning if I stopped and helped her reach it. And because I thought it would help me reach my pre-ordained quota, I decided to stop and help her. /sarc

Of course not! She needed help, so I stopped and helped her. What kind of nonsense is this thread?

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

No one really knows what their reward will be until that time comes, so you should strive in all ways to live rightly.

You can choose to interpret this as "earning" a reward, but since no one knows, it's folly to live your life as if you are constantly checking items off on a list. You simply live the best you can. It never enters my conscious mind whether or not I'm heading toward heaven with this or that action. My more immediate, day-to-day concern is what impact it has on my life and the people around me.

If it does good by that standard, I ought to be headed in the right direction at the end of it all. Let heaven take care of itself.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
This question is directed more towards whoever subscribe to the Abrahamic religions, all are welcome to reply regardless of ye faith. Or lack thereof.

If the religious deity you worshiped did NOT reward their follower's with eternal life,an afterlife and/or a spiritual existence beyond this life or any rewards at all for the good deeds you did during your lifetime( e.g works of Charity, works of Altruism and works of Humility)would you still do genuine good deeds for your fellow humans in the name of your deity(s)?

I ask this because I find much of the reason Christian,Jews and Muslims of all kinds worship their deities is for spiritual guidance in this life but also for the immaterial rewards they gain once their dead. I find this an extremely selfish outlook on religious piety in general and it's analogous to children whom only behave better around Christmas time so they can end up on Santa's "good" list. Reaping the material rewards for themselves once Christmas arrives.
The good works they do are all part of an act to fulfill the satisfaction of a deity(s).

However this doesn't mean that all religious followers good deeds are disingenuous, they're are many Samaritans and missionaries whom go out of their way to help the less fortunate because they genuinely do care. But if the positive reinforcement of an afterlife was nonexistent, would they still follow through on doing those good works?

My hope is anyone reading this can quell my assertions on the selfishness of religious devotion to a deity(s).

This is an excellent question, and an issue in which (I believe) the majority of christians reserve misconceptions.

Biblically speaking, the human mind/heart is wicked and deceptive (even to self). Isaiah 64:6 states that our "righteousness are as filthy garments". In light of that concept, good deeds are a way of covering the filth of our hearts. Therefore our good deeds as non-believers or carnal believers are hypocritical in nature. We tend to do good with the hope that "karma" might reciprocate. As you mentioned, this is selfish, whether you are theistic, atheistic, or agnostic.

While the religious often do good for the same reason ( that being some form of reward), Christ told us to Abide inHim...to put on His Righteousness...to learn His Mind (which is the Word of God). The idea is that if we believe that the Father sent His Son to pay for our sins, then we are reborn in Him; at which point, we can begin to learn to think like Him. As we integrate with His mind, we naturally produce His deeds. As long as we Abide in Christ, we find joy in His way and produce deeds that are like precious metals/stones. When we step out of fellowship with Him, all we need to do is cite the sin to Gpd the Father (1John 1:9), and we are again cleansed of all unrighteousness. This should be a daily (often moment-by-moment) routine.

We are promised eternal rewards, but the deeds are not to be motivated by reward. The rewards are for learning to think like Christ.

It boils down to man vs Christ:

Man seeks righteousness for reward in spite of his own wickedness.

Christ seeks righteousness for the sake of elevating the Truth above all. The reward is just a byproduct.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

No one knows anything about God, the generic term for that creator we have never met. Not the fairy tales jealous "god" of Israel. Why would anyone buy this chosen people garbage, it's elitist in a semi-psychotic way. Let the Creator be, he obviously doesn't want to be around us and can you blame him? This world is a ticking time bomb.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

. All this religious nonsense has been mostly destructive and is a great pile of books that we argue over. We are geniuses, arguing about a thousands of years old story. We need peace and tolerance.

a reply to: Rasalghul

You can have peace, tolerance, love and joy, while Abiding in Christ.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

If the person's heart is blackened to do good deeds just for spiritual reward, they won't be receiving those rewards so it's a pointless endeavor.

You got to feel it, feel the pain, respond from sympathy, empathy, considered weakness by many nowadays.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

However why have religious tenets that endorse altruism through a form immaterial bribery?
To me its seems a bit of a disingenuous way of encouraging positive behavioral traits.

Religion attracts, in a sense preys upon, unfeeling or greedy types with the promise of reward, otherwise they wouldn't attract people with money that feeds their coffers. A church full of poor people doesn't stay open very long.

The example is set not by religion or charitable organizations, but by those that help… not from pride or showing off, but help quietly, out of humbleness, if that makes any sense.

Everyone crosses a needy path most every day, not just in church or by donating to some organization. The positive traits are not flashing their actions for others to see, they are quietly aiding someone they see needs it in their daily life, as it presents itself.

Who do you know that goes out of their way, is reliable, dependable, is there when asked or truly needed? Lots of fair weather friends, keeping up appearances till the crap really hits, then they are gone.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: NateTheAnimator

No one knows anything about God, the generic term for that creator we have never met. Not the fairy tales jealous "god" of Israel. Why would anyone buy this chosen people garbage, it's elitist in a semi-psychotic way. Let the Creator be, he obviously doesn't want to be around us and can you blame him? This world is a ticking time bomb.

Totally agree with that assessment. Imposters sit in the 'holy place' as they declare it. Really there is no Gods chosen people, or special dirt.

The holy of holies is everyones own soul.

a reply to: intrptr

And the christians willingly accept the term gentile, as if 2 kinds of people exist. Jews, a miniscule fraction of the world population, and everybody else. They would not like it if they knew what the Jews really call them.

a reply to: Rasalghul

I do not care what the Jews call me, I only care that Christ did call, and I answered His call. This is all that matters, not what the world thinks of you.

a reply to: DaphneApollo
No one was trying to force scriptures down anyone's throat. I was simply replying to the point that no one needs a book to teach right and wrong and that it is not always clear.

I too have had an experience with God. I know Jesus Exists too!