Let's talk about supply, demand, and billionaires.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I certainly am uninformed else I would not have made this thread.

I nysekf believe America could stand on many, many small businesses.

Won't small businesses inevitably grow larger? You want to cap the size of a business? What incentives does anyone have to start one? Why would any business stay in America?

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

If it were the workers goals to...

Have a living wage.
Have a better work environment.
Be given benefits like insurance...

If this were wide spread, what would happen? If a business did not offer these three things, no one would work for them...what would happen?

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

That all makes sense to a degree. Though the term "risk" is used too lightly, in my opinion. Walmart has no risk in buying bulk, in my opinion. They've leveraged their large name to the point that the manufacturers face a risk in rejecting business - set at Walmarts prices and expectations. Leverage is huge, and Walmart is a rather large weight on the one side of the scale.

Do you disagree, and if so, why?

Fine get rid of Wallmart. Then let the other small entities run that industry. Except over time a new Wallmart will be formed because that's everyone's goal to become large and successful.

Some of my colleagues and I have our own theories on this. And what direction it should go.

Alot of manufacturers and wholesalers are seeing that they actually dim out QUICKER with large purchasers like Walmart.

Others take the branding and the fast cash and move onto another product. So they "invent' new markets while dumping the former.

It's become almost TOO dynamic.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

In a world population of billions of uneducated consumers there is no threat to any company from a few educated individuals to not buy from them. The population is too large and too unorganized. Boycotting was a useful tool when business existed in and were beholden to smaller communities. Large world expanding corporate business laugh at such attempts. Is the reason Walmart can just walk into any community no matter how many people in the community cry fowl and scream they don't want them there.

What you are saying is too many people are fine with it. That is the problem with a society where not everyone gets what they want. Boycotting is not what I mean per se. I am talking free market conditions. I am also talking the US, not the world.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I don't believe caps would be a law, or anything, I think certain situations naturally should screw a business, though.

Walmarts workers needing food stamps, Medicaid, etc... If consumers and workers alike were educated to not accept these circumstances, Walmart would fail.

Do you think such education would be to the detriment of everyone ?

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

If it were the workers goals to...

Have a living wage.
Have a better work environment.
Be given benefits like insurance...

If this were wide spread, what would happen? If a business did not offer these three things, no one would work for them...what would happen?

They would change. You're a republican who believes in the free market.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

That all makes sense to a degree. Though the term "risk" is used too lightly, in my opinion. Walmart has no risk in buying bulk, in my opinion. They've leveraged their large name to the point that the manufacturers face a risk in rejecting business - set at Walmarts prices and expectations. Leverage is huge, and Walmart is a rather large weight on the one side of the scale.

Do you disagree, and if so, why?

Fine get rid of Wallmart. Then let the other small entities run that industry. Except over time a new Wallmart will be formed because that's everyone's goal to become large and successful.

Some of my colleagues and I have our own theories on this. And what direction it should go.

Alot of manufacturers and wholesalers are seeing that they actually dim out QUICKER with large purchasers like Walmart.

Others take the branding and the fast cash and move onto another product. So they "invent' new markets while dumping the former.

It's become almost TOO dynamic.

Undoubtedly, in a consumer driven economy the consumer ultimately dictates what happens. When people demanded more green, businesses changed to at least pretend to be more green. What the OP doesn't realize is that if most people don't agree with him, things will remain the same.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I don't believe caps would be a law, or anything, I think certain situations naturally should screw a business, though.

Walmarts workers needing food stamps, Medicaid, etc... If consumers and workers alike were educated to not accept these circumstances, Walmart would fail.

Do you think such education would be to the detriment of everyone ?

As long as people concede to the race to the bottom, I don't know.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I advocate for educated consumers and workers, then. Not sure how..

School should have classes for this. Not defining the exact situations a person should demand, but rather teaching them that purchasing power, and the ability to work are not jokes , that they can be used for a better society, and to be taught to define themselves what they think those conditions should be

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I advocate for educated consumers and workers, then. Not sure how..

School should have classes for this. Not defining the exact situations a person should demand, but rather teaching them that purchasing power, and the ability to work are not jokes , that they can be used for a better society, and to be taught to define themselves what they think those conditions should be

Schools do have classes for this. A lot of people are just dumb.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I don't believe caps would be a law, or anything, I think certain situations naturally should screw a business, though.

Walmarts workers needing food stamps, Medicaid, etc... If consumers and workers alike were educated to not accept these circumstances, Walmart would fail.

Do you think such education would be to the detriment of everyone ?

Walmart could be crushed in a year if people realized it's largely unnecessary.

But the same business model would spring up. There are dozens of businesses which trail right behind Walmarts model, waiting to take their place. It's a catch 22 because Walmart is detrimental in some ways, beneficial in others....mostly to the poor or lower classes.

Walmart just is one of the big stacks at the poker table. They can railroad everyone, and they will, as long as they can.

They have the loopholes and lawyers and stock positions to do it.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I do not believe my thoughts will create change. It's actually likely most people will not agree with me.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

But tell me.

If the nation in essence unionized..

Almost all working class demanded

A living wage
A good work environment
Health benefits

Would the economy collapse?

Would businesses change?

What would happen if the average person didn't just accept any working circumstance?

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

If the nation in essence unionized..

Oh god.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Not like that. Haha I hate what I've heard of actual unions. They hurt everyone. The worker, the employer, and the consumer.

I just mean if the whole nation agreed upon what work should entail, what is found reasonable work circumstances.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

But tell me.

If the nation in essence unionized..

Almost all working class demanded

A living wage
A good work environment
Health benefits

Would the economy collapse?

Would businesses change?

What would happen if the average person didn't just accept any working circumstance?

1) "Living Wage" is too vague. It needs to be defined to be debated.

2) If you're getting into wage setting, then you bring in Government...which is a slippery slope and historically ANTI business.

3) I don't know what you mean by 'Unionized". Meaning all workers were Unionized and used collective bargaining?

That would undoubtedly change the entire structure of "Free Market" or the Market in general. You would have to apply collective economies, AKA Socialism,..not just in Government...but in ownership of labor and the "Means of Production"

4) Would we collapse? Yes. Because we're Capitalist..which is "For Profit" Mode of Production.

LOL...you can't just change the whole mode and means of production overnight.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain



What would happen if the average person didn't just accept any working circumstance?

Uhhhh....we would collapse. Or be held hostage to SYNDICATES and Unionized thugs/cartels.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

This whole discussion is theory. I don't actually believe anything is going to change.

So, you don't believe workers could reasonably demand certain work circumstances, without infringement by the government?

Capitalist and for profit sounds more and more like benefiting the few at the expense of the many.

Why should a business have productivity expectations, but a worker not have pay expectations?

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

This whole discussion is theory. I don't actually believe anything is going to change.

So, you don't believe workers could reasonably demand certain work circumstances, without the infringement of the government?

Capitalist and for profit sounds more and more like benefiting the few at the expense of the many.

Why should a business have productivity expectations, but a worker not have pay expectations?

We already do have work standards. Those are set by Private Owners, Federal laws, State Laws, Unions, etc.

Unions demand things now. Unions can have pluses and minuses. But Unions have their downsides. Too much "Collective bargaining' can hinder growth for the CAPITAL owner and stifle them, which may or may not bring MORE employment...more profit....leading to more expansion

If you don't want to work for a company, you don't have to. Nobody forces people to take employment and "sell' their labor for a fee

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

The collective average does not realize they can refuse certain working conditions.

The constantly "terrible" economy keeps them on their knees.

A large premise of this post is the premise that if people collectively realized they could demand better working conditions, companies would either submit or go out of business.

The consequences in the market including rising prices, etc, are a different subject.