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Republican Debate Discussion; Come One And All...

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posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Trolling much?

READ THE ARTICLE AND THE SOURCES.

If you are trying to goad me into c/p an entire lengthy article and all of the relevant sources, that's just lame.

ah, screw it. Here you go:

The Conclusion and the Sources:

Conclusion

States considering deep tax cuts in hopes of sparking a surge of economic growth should look carefully at Kansas. That state’s massive tax cuts have created a large and growing revenue loss and forced further cuts in funding for schools and other public services that the state had already cut because of the recession. The tax plan also has widened inequality and raised taxes on the lowest-income families. Finally, a year after the cuts first took effect, the state’s economy is not performing particularly well, and there’s no evidence to suggest that the tax cuts will cause the economy to take off in the years ahead.

End notes:

[1] Kansas Legislative Research Department, consensus revenue estimate, November 2013, budget.ks.gov...

[2] Michael Leachman, Michael Mazerov, Vincent Palacios, and Chris Mai, “State Personal Income Tax Cuts: A Poor Strategy for Economic Growth,” Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, March 21, 2013, www.cbpp.org...

[3] Michael Mazerov, “Academic Research Lacks Consensus on the Impact of State Tax Cuts on Economic Growth,” Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, June 17, 2013, www.cbpp.org...

[4] See pp. 11-12 in Erica Williams and Nicolas Johnson, “ALEC Tax and Budget Proposals Would Slash Public Services and Jeopardize Economic Growth”, Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, February 12, 2013. www.cbpp.org...

[5] Kansas Legislative Research Department, “State General Fund Profile, FY 2011-FY 2019, November 6, 2013 Consensus Estimates, Includes Governor’s Budget Recommendations, Revenue for Out-Years are Based on Tax Law that was in Effect for Tax Year 2012,” January 27, 2014.

[6] Lucy Dadayan and Donald J. Boyd, “State Tax Revenues Slip Back to Slower Growth”, Nelson A. Rockefeller Institute of Government, March 11, 2014. www.rockinst.org...

[7] Bureau of Labor Statistics, Current Employment Statistics data.

[8] National Education Association, “Rankings and Estimates: Rankings of the States 2009 and Estimates of School Statistics 2010,” December 2009, Table H9, p. 54, www.nea.org...

[9] For example, the state’s third largest school district ? Shawnee Mission School District ? closed three schools, expanded class sizes, cut music programs, and eliminated hundreds of staff positions. (For citations, see www.offthechartsblog.org...). CLICK TO READ THE REST

[10] A recent Kansas Supreme Court ruling in Luke Gannon v. State of Kansas found that the state is unconstitutionally underfunding lower-income schools. The ruling may compel the state’s legislature to increase funding for these schools, or shift funding to these schools from other, wealthier ones. Supreme Court ruling available at www.kscourts.org...

[11] CBPP analysis of data from Illinois State University’s Grapevine report and the Kansas Board of Regents.

[12] Kansas Governor’s Budget Reports for FY2010, FY2014 and FY2015.

[13] Kansas Department of Health and Environment data.

[14] See United Community Services of Johnson County, “Kansas Could Do More for Poor Families with Children: An Analysis of TANF Budget and Policies,” December 17, 2013, ucsjoco.org... For caseload declines see Public Assistance Report SFY2014, Kansas Department for Children and Families, December 2013. www.dcf.ks.gov...

[15] Ibid.

[16] Andy Marso, “Nuss: Courts Will Shut Down Without More Funds,” Topeka Capital-Journal, January 22, 2014, cjonline.com...

[17] Based on permanent Kansas law for non-elderly taxpayers as of January 3, 2013, at 2010 income levels, including the tax savings from federal itemized deductions for state and local taxes, also known as the “federal offset.” Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, Who Pays? A Distributional Analysis of the Tax Systems in All 50 States, 4th edition, January 2013.

[18] Elizabeth McNichol, Douglas Hall, David Cooper and Vincent Palacios, “Pulling Apart: A State-by-State Analysis of Income Trends”, Center on Budget and Policy Priorities and Economic Policy Institute, November 15, 2012. www.cbpp.org...

[19] Governor Sam Brownback, “Tax Cuts Needed to Grow Economy,” Wichita Eagle, July 29, 2012, www.kansas.com...

[20] Jobs in Kansas grew at a rate of 1.8% between December 2011 and December 2012.

[21] Data from Bureau of Labor Statistics.

[22] Earnings per week adjusted for inflation grew by $22.45 in Kansas and $19.99 in the U.S. overall in the period from December 2011 to December 2012.

[23] Nonfarm personal income grew 3.9 percent above inflation in 2012. Data from Bureau of Economic Analysis.

[24] John Eligon, “Brownback Leads Kansas in Sharp Right Turn,” New York Times, February 13, 2014, www.nytimes.com...

[25] The Kansas share of U.S. businesses fell by 4.8 percent in 2012 and 0.2 percent in the first three quarters of 2013.

[26] Kansas November 2013 consensus revenue estimate, Kansas Division of the Budget, www.kansas.com...

[27] Michael Leachman, Michael Mazerov, Vincent Palacios, and Chris Mai, “State Personal Income Tax Cuts: A Poor Strategy for Economic Growth,” Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, March 21, 2013, www.cbpp.org...

[28] Michael Mazerov, “Academic Research Lacks Consensus on the Impact of State Tax Cuts on Economic Growth,” Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, June 17, 2013, www.cbpp.org...

[29] Nick Johnson and Michael Mazerov, “Proposed Kansas Tax Breaks for ‘Pass-Through’ Profits Is Poorly Targeted and Will Not Create Jobs,” Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, March 26, 2012, www.cbpp.org...


Boo ya.
Snap.
Ha.

edit on 2/7/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 01:24 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

As I suspected.

No actual numbers or balance sheets.

Just typical 3-sheets-to-the-wind assumptions and mis-directions.

The BS campaign is massive and is spending millions to sway public opinion.




posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Goddammit xuen. YES, ACTUAL NUMBERS. YES, ACTUAL GOV DOCUMENTATION.


Just...just stop.
Read the article - check the sources. That article includes plenty of actual numbers, charts, etc.

But - as I suspected, you mock it all....
btw, you're not funny.


edit on 2/7/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

LOL

the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

... is a massively ultra biased Left Wing organization.

Hmmm.




The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP) is an American think tank that analyzes the impact of federal and state government budget policies from a progressive viewpoint.



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Here is my thing Buzzy - not on the same topic of the post, I just wanted to have your name there. Anyway, right now we are sitting at a national debt of 21.7 Trillion dollars. You can correct my math if need be, but I am figuring that out at over 66 thousand dollars for every man, woman, and child in this country.

None of us can pay this! None of us! Sanders programs will increase this number, yet we cannot pay for it. Yes, he will raise the minimum wage, and then take it in higher taxes for all. His plans will make companies run, for some, he will make it not even worth it to do business at all in this country.

We need more companies, and more jobs. The more people than there are jobs, and the more the companies own the people. The more jobs than there are people, and you have the reverse, the people gain more control over wages and everything else, because companies then have to compete for the workers.

There is a balance in there that is good for both workers and companies. The more manufacturing, the more production in a country, the more companies are paying taxes, so even a lower rate of taxes evens out in the end.

In state, you have to have state taxes and property taxes match the spending. You cannot make those lower than what is needing to be spent, or you have an imbalance. If you have more manufacturing, more jobs, more people will spend money and more people will pay more state taxes, property tax and sales tax and the like.

Bernie's plan there just doesn't pan out in practice, whereas Trump learned both from Reagan's mistakes, and his accomplishments.

You should really read through Trump's plan, look at what financial advisers say, look at what is happening now and see what will happen if it gets even worse and we keep loosing companies. Then compare that to Bernies. In all seriousness, his plan sounds so pretty, but its the practice of it that does not work.

Every-time in this country that the minimum wage was raised, at first it was nice, you had more money, but in time, everything went up, prices went up, everyone elses wages went up, property values went up. And they always go up given time.

It is just something to give serious thought to.

www.donaldjtrump.com...
www.donaldjtrump.com...
www.donaldjtrump.com...

If these things can get done, then we have a good shot at some economic recovery.



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Look at the kansas gov links. Look at the nea.org links. Do a wiki search. Read all of the sources.

Until you do that, I have no further interest in your faux-comic one-liner trolling, your fake support for Sanders, or your smartass non-rebuttals.

Again - not funny.


[10] A recent Kansas Supreme Court ruling in Luke Gannon v. State of Kansas found that the state is unconstitutionally underfunding lower-income schools. The ruling may compel the state’s legislature to increase funding for these schools, or shift funding to these schools from other, wealthier ones. Supreme Court ruling available at www.kscourts.org...


edit on 2/7/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Half your links are 404'd

Now what.




posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

now you come live here. Try it out for yourself.

It's no wonder the resources are 404'd. They don't want that info getting out there.




edit on 2/7/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: Kitana

Good points.

And we have to think about the shrinking market demand for U.S. Treasury bonds.

And as they keep raising interest rates to get buyers (lenders), the future obligations will be horrendous.




posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 01:50 PM
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It was good to see them tear each other apart



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

I heard the feds are not planning on raising rates at all right now. That was the last I heard, I don't know if that has changed I guess.

money.cnn.com...

the latest info on that ^^^
edit on 7-2-2016 by Kitana because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
It was good to see them tear each other apart


It was fun to watch but I also became more curious to know more about Kasich. For all of Christie's blustering, what he said about the difference between governors and legislators did make sense. Unfortunately for him, I began to study the other governors that were standing on that stage too. Kasich now has my attention.

Anyone who has seen my previous posts knows I have been more supportive of Bernie. I have to admit though I can't stand Hillary so I am looking for an alternate. Kasich may seem too moderate for the GOP...but for undecided folks like me...he could be an except able bridge between party extremes.



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: CynConcepts

I totally agree with you - a freshman senator, no matter how Ken-doll or Enrique-esque he might be.......
does NOT have the experience.

I agree that Governorship should be a prerequisite to running for President.
Or, at least experience in executive positions, whether as mayors or governors.......OR, alternatively, experience in US Congress. DC Congress. Christie also has prosecutor experience - a plus.....

It really is about leadership and a track record....consistency and a clean background.....
(consistency in this scenario requires willingness to adapt to current events and situations - it does NOT mean "never changing your mind")....... As people mature, their thinking becomes more refined. As they experience life, they develop circumspection, retrospection, and (optimally) introspection.


Every other big-deal job in the country requires EXPERIENCE and a RESUME showing PROOF that you have accomplished things. For this very reason, it comes down to (in no particular order) Christie, Kasich, and Bush.
I gave O'Malley that credit, too.

Prove to me you were able to run your own neighborhood, your city, your county, your school board, your state --- I will take under advisement the related experience and resume (tell us about your best accomplishments).
You need to show me your resume before you claim you can run all 300000000 of us plus the image of the USA.

Marco and Ted........
shoo.

Go away.
Upstart Punks.

edit on 2/7/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 02:29 PM
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Why Chris Christie’s beatdown of Marco Rubio was the only moment from the GOP debate that mattered

Rubio almost self destructed when attacked by the bully Christie according to this writer.

Very entertaining scene.

I actually agree Rubio played that scene awfully bad.



Things got started when Rubio was asked to respond to Christie’s allegation that, after experiencing the presidency of Barack Obama, who was elected as a first-term U.S. senator, it would be especially unfortunate if the Republican Party were itself to nominate Marco Rubio, a first term U.S. senator, for the White House. “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me,” Christie had said (bettering his former benefactor, George).




Rubio’s comeback was pretty good, if a little obvious in its intent: He argued that experience was overrated; if it mattered, Vice President Joe Biden would be a good candidate for commander-in-chief. He then argued that an unspoken premise of the criticism — that Obama has failed in part due to his inexperience — is faulty. Obama knows exactly what he’s doing, Rubio said. The president is not a fool; he’s a menace.




Christie wasn’t having it, dismissing Rubio’s Biden straw man and recommitting to his initial attack. Rubio’s a nice guy, a smart guy, Christie said; but the simple fact is that he’s never had to make an important decision. This got a noticeable round of applause from the audience. And perhaps that’s why Rubio then proceeded to self-destruct.




What Rubio’s next five or so minutes such a disaster wasn’t really what he said — but the fact that he had already just said it. Looking mighty flummoxed, Rubio tried to parry Christie’s second attack by pivoting once again to Obama, hoping to bring the crowd around to his side by using generous helpings of ideological red meat to help their tribal identification overwhelm their intellect. It had already failed, but he was doing it again. Worse still, his second answer was almost a verbatim repeat of his first.
[/quote

www.salon.com...

This almost was a Rubio, Rick Perry moment



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 02:30 PM
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Why Chris Christie’s beatdown of Marco Rubio was the only moment from the GOP debate that mattered

Rubio almost self destructed when attacked by the bully Christie according to this writer.

Very entertaining scene.

I actually agree Rubio played that scene awfully bad.



Things got started when Rubio was asked to respond to Christie’s allegation that, after experiencing the presidency of Barack Obama, who was elected as a first-term U.S. senator, it would be especially unfortunate if the Republican Party were itself to nominate Marco Rubio, a first term U.S. senator, for the White House. “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me,” Christie had said (bettering his former benefactor, George).




Rubio’s comeback was pretty good, if a little obvious in its intent: He argued that experience was overrated; if it mattered, Vice President Joe Biden would be a good candidate for commander-in-chief. He then argued that an unspoken premise of the criticism — that Obama has failed in part due to his inexperience — is faulty. Obama knows exactly what he’s doing, Rubio said. The president is not a fool; he’s a menace.





Christie wasn’t having it, dismissing Rubio’s Biden straw man and recommitting to his initial attack. Rubio’s a nice guy, a smart guy, Christie said; but the simple fact is that he’s never had to make an important decision. This got a noticeable round of applause from the audience. And perhaps that’s why Rubio then proceeded to self-destruct.




What Rubio’s next five or so minutes such a disaster wasn’t really what he said — but the fact that he had already just said it. Looking mighty flummoxed, Rubio tried to parry Christie’s second attack by pivoting once again to Obama, hoping to bring the crowd around to his side by using generous helpings of ideological red meat to help their tribal identification overwhelm their intellect. It had already failed, but he was doing it again. Worse still, his second answer was almost a verbatim repeat of his first.


This may have been Rubio’s, Rick Perry moment




edit on 7-2-2016 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-2-2016 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Experience is meaningless when the plans are bad. Yes, you can have tons of experience but if the plan/platform itself is faulty, I would rather have less experience and a good idea. People can learn how to do a job, it happens every day in this country, people do actually learn things.

A good idea is better than a bad plan with experience.



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 02:40 PM
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Jimmy Carter had excellent foreign policy experience as Governor of Georgia.




posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 02:48 PM
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Rubio gets stomped by bully in debate



Christie appeared to have pushed a button in Rubio’s head marked ‘Distance self from Obama’. ‘Let’s dispel with this fiction that Barack Obama doesn’t know what he’s doing,’ Rubio replied. ‘He knows exactly what he’s doing.’ Christie shot back that Rubio was merely regurgitating his stump speech. To which Rubio responded: ‘Here’s the bottom line. This notion that Barack Obama doesn’t know what he’s doing is just not true. He knows exactly what he’s doing.’




Christie repeated that Rubio was repeating. So Rubio, like a robot gone wrong, repeated again: ‘We are not facing a president that doesn’t know what he’s doing. He knows what he is doing. That’s why he’s done the things he’s done …’
It was awkward. In total, he said the same line four times. He didn’t look like an election winner, to put it mildly.


blogs.spectator.co.uk...

Chris Christie took Rubio's lunch money

edit on 7-2-2016 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 02:53 PM
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Yeah, watching Carson now, talking about service-people and how they need continuity of care, and aways-ready support-staff......

The others tried to evade the question about drafting young women......



posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 02:54 PM
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The sanest candidate amongst these crazies has left the race, Rand Paul.

I missed him last night; he may have brought some sanity to what these mad men
(minus one the mad woman) were saying.



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