It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why stop at socialism. Why not just go full communist?

page: 14
29
<< 11  12  13    15 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 12:22 PM
link   
a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

I'm more pragmatic.

It won't happen in my lifetime.




posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 12:48 PM
link   
a reply to: DBCowboy
If pragmatism reigned in every mind that ever was, humanity would have died long ago. Look, man, even if it can't happen in your lifetime, with the right movement and prep work, we could make it happen in our kids lifetime. Much like a man who plants a tree, knowing that long before it is fully grown, he will be dead. Should he then, refrain from planting a tree, because 'what would be the point?' Imagine, again, if literally Everyone thought this way. Generally speaking, people have a tendency to miss the most important part of a building, the framework. If we leave off on building this framework, (which, idealistic or no, academic or no, fantastical or no, You would grant that the proposed is the ideal society?) the most important thing I could imagine for a legacy, then how can we ever expect progress in this area, when our children would grow up learning this pragmatism from us?


edit on 10-2-2016 by 5leepingWarrior because: question mark



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 01:12 PM
link   
a reply to: DBCowboy

For that matter, why don't we all quit drinking beer? Why half-ass the consumption of psychoactive substances? We should all go straight to injecting heroin, at the largest doses survivable. Why raise highway speed limits to 70mph when it is possible to drive over 100 mph in most cars? (Should I keep throwing out more examples of why the failings of things taken to the extreme don't necessarily negate all value of less-extremist actions?) If it will help, I can. It works with pretty much every single topic. It's just simply not a sound argument whatsoever.

Now, I don't believe we need to go "Socialist" simply because we've failed to do "Capitalist" properly (allowing it to slide into globalist corporatism.) I do believe we need to force a different system than the one we have today into play. I also believe true "Socialism" would be little more than an adjustment for the masses which allows over-reaching corporatism to continue it's existence. I'm just saying, the argument that "we might as well just go full commie" isn't merely flawed, it is completely nonsensical.



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 01:22 PM
link   
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I in fact do give my time and money in support of others and weather "I earned it, I deserve it" capitalists like you admit it or not, it is the responsibility of the government as representatives of the people to see that it's citizens are taken care of. .!.



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 01:33 PM
link   

originally posted by: hudsonhawk69
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I in fact do give my time and money in support of others and weather "I earned it, I deserve it" capitalists like you admit it or not, it is the responsibility of the government as representatives of the people to see that it's citizens are taken care of. .!.


Okay, (semi)artful dodger, riddle me this: Since when has a government ever fully, earnestly and successfully taken care of its citizens, save for where it was beneficial for said government to do so?
I look at history books, and the only viable form of 'government' I can see is not a government at all, I am referring to those small island communities that existed peacefully with themselves and their environment, with a 'chieftain' appointed merely as an expedient, someone to act upon what the people desired. Really, though, a chieftain wouldn't be necessary if each member of said community did their part.



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 01:37 PM
link   

originally posted by: hudsonhawk69
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I in fact do give my time and money in support of others and weather "I earned it, I deserve it" capitalists like you admit it or not, it is the responsibility of the government as representatives of the people to see that it's citizens are taken care of. .!.


Well, you have no right to tell me how generous I should be with what I have earned. I lean right, but I am still quite charitable and generous to others. You do not know me at all, so be careful with sweeping generalizations. I do believe in creating equal opportunities, but I do not support mandating equal outcomes.

*Whether* you agree with me or not is your personal choice (because you are actually free to choose what you agree with, what you support, etc.). I cannot speak in absolutes, however, otherwise I will be tarred and feathered by liberal commentators on the need for intervention for the sake of equal outcome to counter the weight of the selfish, greed of capitalism.



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 04:33 PM
link   
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I did not tell you how generous you should be with your money. Perhaps you would of benefited from more money being put into free schooling.



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 04:37 PM
link   
Let me ask the socialist here, how much (percentage) should the government take?

How much is enough, how much is too much?



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 04:45 PM
link   
a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

The simple fact that governments don't tend to look after their citizens doesn't mean that they shouldn't be expected to do a better job of it.

Having such a large gap between the haves and the have nots is of benefit no one. Not even the wealthy. Historically such a situation tends to lead civil war and a whole host of other situations that make the lives of even the wealthy increasingly unpleasant.

Such a capitalist social, political and economic paradigm as we are discussing here is very damaging to everyone involved. I might be inclined to suggest that some more socialist European counties have a better system.

Any one who has to ask "Why not go completely communist?" has completely missed the point. One extreme is no better than the other.



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 04:47 PM
link   

originally posted by: hudsonhawk69
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I did not tell you how generous you should be with your money. Perhaps you would of benefited from more money being put into free schooling.


Oh, come on. You're going to result to an underhanded insult on my intelligence? Let us not get overly petty or else I will be forced to point out the number of simple spelling and grammatical mistakes flooding your posts.

... But I would never do that.



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 04:51 PM
link   

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Let me ask the socialist here, how much (percentage) should the government take?

How much is enough, how much is too much?


Find the happiest country in the world and ask them how much they pay?

.!.

That might give you a guideline.

Paying more tax however won't make governments less corrupt or a capitalists approach to economy and society any less unfair.



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 04:54 PM
link   
a reply to: hudsonhawk69

That's been my point for the longest time.

People squealing about the need to have government take more, when the government is the most corrupt organization on the planet!



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 04:57 PM
link   

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: hudsonhawk69
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I did not tell you how generous you should be with your money. Perhaps you would of benefited from more money being put into free schooling.


Oh, come on. You're going to result to an underhanded insult on my intelligence? Let us not get overly petty or else I will be forced to point out the number of simple spelling and grammatical mistakes flooding your posts.

... But I would never do that.


Yes... Yes I am and yes I did. Being a prick and winding other people up is one of the few pleasures left on this worthless website that has become nothing more than a tool for misinformation and pushing subtle main stream agendas and propaganda.

This however, nor my poor spelling or grammar changes the fact that I did NOT tell you how generous you should be your money.


Perhaps you simply need glasses?

I don't know.



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 04:58 PM
link   
a reply to: DBCowboy

Well I guess we can agree on that... Absolute power corrupts absolutely.



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 05:11 PM
link   

originally posted by: hudsonhawk69

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: hudsonhawk69
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I did not tell you how generous you should be with your money. Perhaps you would of benefited from more money being put into free schooling.


Oh, come on. You're going to result to an underhanded insult on my intelligence? Let us not get overly petty or else I will be forced to point out the number of simple spelling and grammatical mistakes flooding your posts.

... But I would never do that.


Yes... Yes I am and yes I did. Being a prick and winding other people up is one of the few pleasures left on this worthless website that has become nothing more than a tool for misinformation and pushing subtle main stream agendas and propaganda.



Oh, you mean a resource for other people who disagree with you to have civil discourse?



I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

-Evelyn Beatrice Hall






Perhaps you simply need glasses?



I'm wearing them, but I do need to update my prescription. Thanks for the reminder!



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 05:30 PM
link   

originally posted by: DBCowboy
So you tell the person making 20 bucks an hour constructing IV tubing, that he'll have to take a cut in pay because medical expenses are too high.


Interestingly enough, guess what my husband does for a living? Yep, he makes that IV tubing you're blathering about, and we just discussed overpricing in the medical industry before his shift tonight. And they don't pay the operators $20, either, nice try.

He works for a medical supplies manufacturer, meaning, they make the stuff that ends up marked up to high hell & back versus what they actually sold it for. You can both blame & thank the insurance industry & hospitals themselves for the $20 tylenol just the same as the $50 pair of medical gloves. It did not cost my husband's company $50 to make that pair, let alone did they sell them for that much in the first place.

Follow the mark-ups. THAT tells you quite a bit in terms of who's gutting people in supplies costs.



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 06:24 PM
link   
a reply to: neo96

And where has capitalism gotten America? Into the largest hole in the world. Capitalism has just as bad of a track record as socialism if you want to look at it from a non-biased perspective.

There's no way to pay off the debt, it's there for life. Every single dollar that has ever been printed by the Federal Reserve has had a debt attached to it. That's how capitalistic banks work, by making debt slaves of everyone. We're all slaves to the capitalist system because debt is attached at its very foundation. To deny that is to deny reality.

Money is a tool for enslavement, especially for those who hoard it and print it. Capitalism is an economic model that thrives on making an extra buck, and debt is attached to every one of those bucks.
edit on 2/10/2016 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 06:28 PM
link   

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: neo96

And where has capitalism gotten America? Into the largest hole in the world.



The failures of Government and Socialism are why Capitalism has problems.




posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 06:37 PM
link   
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




And where has capitalism gotten America? Into the largest hole in the world.


That was hilarious since no one living has seen capitalism at work.

Corporations should not be guarantee 'income' by the state. What passes for modern 'capitalism' is crony at best.

Full blown stupidity ie socialism/communism at worst.

True capitalism is NO ONE gets rewarded for failure.

No one get's 'bailed out'.

That would mean NO social program would exist.

Any yet we owe our current technological progress, and wealth to capitalists.

Someone trying to get RICH, and in the process changed the world.

Like Jobs,Buffet,Gates,Zuckerberg,the google founders.

Unlike socialism, and communism.

China's progress?

That's done by American Capitalist's investing in their country.

The Chinese government stealing technology from everyone else.

The bottom line is the socialists, and communists have the capitalists to thank for their money.
edit on 10-2-2016 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 07:05 PM
link   
a reply to: DBCowboy

True communism can never happen while there is even a single person in power that doesn't follow the rules.

When that one person gets something extra that others can't have, communism is replaced with an oligarchy.

People upset at "democratic socialism" don't realize how much of their lives is already entrenched in it. It's a good balance of personal responsibility with a safety net that is carried by the people.

Pure communism is awesome, but we'll never get there while we have selfish people in our society.



new topics

top topics



 
29
<< 11  12  13    15 >>

log in

join