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On the Subject of the Occult

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posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI





If the Biblical God has said "I allow you to communicate with me by prayer" and "I forbid you to get involved in magic", then that is sufficient reason for believers to engage in one and avoid the other


And yet the magic demonstrations performed by Moses to Pharaoh (staff changing to snake) are dismissed by christians as miracles. These gods and players of the bible put on many shows.

The biggest false show is the presumption that a guiltless god had to die to allow vicarious atonement of petty infractions (aka "sins")




posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:56 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: waarheid

Witchcraft is like magick as far as I understand. It is said that with magick, you can influence others, or other things by your thought or actions. It is also said that you reap what you sew.

Knowing all that, and factoring in the aspect of "prayer". Do you see any hypocrisy there? magick is said to be evil by some, but prayer is very similar. Where do you draw the line?

It's possible that the intent of the person is key, and evil is relative. It's all in what you believe. In how YOU reconcile your actions and thoughts. (IMHO)


The difference between prayer and magick is that prayer is not to be used to get whatever you want. I know a lot of people do not understand this.

Prayer is to be used to ask God for things that we need and what we want. For example, if I lose my job today and I pray to find a new job then I'd be using prayer as it is meant to be. However, if I were to say a prayer for something I absolutely do not need--a brand new 2016 hot rod of a vehicle for example--then I'd be wasting my breath. I gotta earn that vehicle, like everyone else, and God isn't going to just plop one in my driveway because I asked real nice and said "pretty please."

My car example is a little extreme, but replace that car with anything no one actually needs and it's pretty much the same. Praying for someone to fall in love with you (especially if they're just not into you), praying to win the lottery, praying for anything frivolous at all. Is not praying correctly.

...The way I see it.
edit on 5-2-2016 by waarheid because: grammar, spelling, etc..

edit on 5-2-2016 by waarheid because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: waarheid
but I'm more talking about people are indeed insisting the occult isn't real, and not that they don't practice it.

Since the Biblical viewpoint is that power belongs to God, denying that occult powers are real is very consistent with that.
It's an additional reason for not trying to get involved in them.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:59 PM
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a reply to: waarheid

"The occult from a christian perspective" sounds about as interesting as "Communism from a Democratic perspective". You'll learn nothing from neither.

Magic works as much as prayer does, and it's been witnessed by professionals such as doctors who say that prayer really does work. They say this because of instances that cannot be explained by any other measure. It doesn't happen a lot, it's very rare actually, but it does happen.

Prayer works when you put enough faith into it. Magic works when you put enough will into it. Don't ask me what the difference between faith and willpower is though, I really don't know. Maybe they're one in the same. Maybe when enough people sit around in a group payer for days and weeks on end for a loved one to be cured of an illness that will probably kill them, only to find out that the person really was cured by no conventional means........maybe that's an act of magic.

It's the same thing as people sitting around a majick circle, saying invocations/prayers during the right phase of the moon when Jupiter is rising in Sagittarius, or whatever, for the purpose of something good to happen to THEM, or bad to happen to someone else. It can work, but good luck getting anyone of repute, like a doctor, to admit to it and better luck still getting people to believe him or her. It's magic after all. It's all a croc.

The universal definition of magic is "The ability to change reality through will". Reality meaning the reality of a certain situation or circumstance in the present. When you look at it that way you'll start to see how "UN-mystical" payer and magic really are. But you have the take the blinders of labels off first and see things for HOW they happen, not by who it happened through and what type of people they're associated with, what type of clothing they wear, what books they read or where they worship whatever they worship. We're all the same. Our hearts and minds all work in the same manner and we all bleed red. Kill the labels and let knowledge live people.

That's my 2 cents, spend it as you will.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 02:00 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: waarheid
but I'm more talking about people are indeed insisting the occult isn't real, and not that they don't practice it.

Since the Biblical viewpoint is that power belongs to God, denying that occult powers are real is very consistent with that.
It's an additional reason for not trying to get involved in them.


Ok. Fair point, again. I think my issue is just that it feels as if there is a denial of scripture in denying this... but yeah... I see what you're saying.

Makes perfect sense, so I concede that you have a very good explanation as to why those folks deny it.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: waarheid

I cannot watch the video but yes, it is real and it is very dangerous to mess with such things.

Now, what can be achieved / results of playing with fire is debatable.
edit on 5-2-2016 by infolurker because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: waarheid

Interesting post. Interesting discussion. Scary topic. The issue, as in most things, is not limited to, but often limited by, semantics. You can add the idea that none of us really know how to listen, and our minds and our present state can often distort what is being heard.

I had a very dear friend -- a God send perhaps. She inadvertently helped me onto this strange journey when she once called me a white witch. I was dumbfounded and would have been immediately offended, were it not for the sweetness in her eyes when she said this. I had never heard of such a saying and was in fact a daily Mass sort of soul, deeply involved with the Church. I had merely mentioned over lunch that I knew about many earthquakes before they happened, and had other episodes of knowing the future and it was upsetting to me (or rather, to my priest, which only made matters worse).

Too long a story but this led to several years of searching and studying that will be familiar to many here. Skip ahead several years and again one day at lunch Joann was a different person. Her eyes were round and she looked nervous and kept leaning away from me. She was also wearing a very large and heavy cross around her neck. I asked what was wrong and she just looked the more afraid and I snapped, "Joann, WHAT'S WRONG? Why are you acting this way?" After some hesitation she said that she was uncomfortable with what I was into. I had shared some forgotten notion from one of the works of Alice Bailey that was interesting at the moment, but this should not have ruffled her feathers in such a manner, so I asked her to be more specific and she said that she was uncomfortable with my interest in evil.. After I stopped chocking on my food, I asked her where she got such a notion and she replied that I had said the last time that I was studying evil. I told her, "Joann, I said I was studying the occult, not evil." To which she innocently replied, "Aren't they the same thing?"

I had learned from that that it was best to keep my opinions and interests to myself. I tried to explain the difference in the two words and she seemed a bit less uncomfortable, but she never looked at me again with those sweet eyes.

I might add a humorous note, that does hint to your question regarding the subject of what Christians might think of the Occult. Now, forgive me, but I can not go into the details of why I was placing this call, but I had the impression that an acquaintance in the state police was in immediate and grave danger. I was frantically trying to call him to warn him. This was in the days of rotary phones and I was holding the phone with my left hand and had the receiver braced between my left shoulder and ear, while trying to dial with my right hand, and I kept dropping the phone. I stopped to get a grip (pardon the pun) and looked down to see what the problem was here and realized that I was also clutching a small quartz crystal ball in my left hand and a small Crucifix in my right, both of which were occupying some necessary fingers. I honestly looked down and exclaimed, "My God, woman, you are between a rock and a hard place!"

Cheers
edit on 5-2-2016 by ClownFish because: Keeping up with typo's.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: ClownFish
a reply to: waarheid
Interesting discussion. Scary topic. The issue, as in most things, is not limited to, but often limited by, semantics. You can add the idea that none of us really know how to listen, and our minds and our present state can often distort what is being heard.


My goodness, you're right. Both in that we don't often know how to listen and the fact that our present state of mind can often distort what is being heard. The story in your post definitely drives this home. I have met so many people who automatically assume something about a subject they're not familiar with simply because of their unfamiliarity and preconceived ideas on it.

I wonder... do people who are opposed to the occult, and really don't understand it, have any desire to understand it? Would they be able to listen, and I mean really listen? You'd think they'd want to know at least enough to be aware of what is out there. Hmm... and now I'll be pondering this a while.

Thank you for adding to the discussion!



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 02:33 PM
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a reply to: waarheid

Thanks for the smile. I think you've answered your own question when you said "You'd think they'd want to know...".

That's the rub. Nothing happens without desire. Let me rephrase that, although some would argue both ways, we can do nothing without desire. Of course, some would argue that we can do nothing, regardless. Sorry, I'm getting goofy. I've been trying to reason with the unreasonable lately in this mundane world. I actually know better but I forget that I know better. One of my favorite expressions is that logic is optional.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Prezbo369
In my analogy, magic is represented by the method of acquisition, not by the object being acquired.
I had thought that "One man talks to you, the other man hits you over the head with a crowbar" was expressing the difference between the two methods in a way that even the simplest understanding would be able to grasp.


I was attempting to get past your faulty analogy, but sure ok.

A person asking for a loan and another committing armed robbery are not the same, nor are they attempting to achieve the same thing, I'm aghast that you think they are...




posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 02:58 PM
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originally posted by: Prezbo369
A person asking for a loan and another committing armed robbery are not the same, nor are they attempting to achieve the same thing, I'm aghast that you think they are...

The whole point of the analogy was to express the idea that there was a difference between the two.
So yes, we agree that they are not the same thing.
(The common factor was "trying to obtain money").



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: waarheid

Witchcraft is like magick as far as I understand. It is said that with magick, you can influence others, or other things by your thought or actions. It is also said that you reap what you sew.

Knowing all that, and factoring in the aspect of "prayer". Do you see any hypocrisy there? magick is said to be evil by some, but prayer is very similar. Where do you draw the line?

It's possible that the intent of the person is key, and evil is relative. It's all in what you believe. In how YOU reconcile your actions and thoughts. (IMHO)


Magic and prayer is an intention manifestation request that you put energy and time into to manifest. True good and evil is objective and can be know and have it's own logical rules. What people think is good and evil is another story and very subjective. Some Reiki masters can connect to any other soul and give energy if they are invited to do so thru the entangled nature of quantum physics of the bodies we are inhabiting. Telepathy and third eye recalibration is a real thing even if it is not understood yet in science. And I agree. You do not mess with Karma if you are wise. It is never worth it.
edit on 5-2-2016 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: ccseagull

You will know the spirits by their works.



You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

edit on 5-2-2016 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 03:19 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: waarheid

Witchcraft is like magick as far as I understand. It is said that with magick, you can influence others, or other things by your thought or actions. It is also said that you reap what you sew.

Knowing all that, and factoring in the aspect of "prayer". Do you see any hypocrisy there? magick is said to be evil by some, but prayer is very similar. Where do you draw the line?

It's possible that the intent of the person is key, and evil is relative. It's all in what you believe. In how YOU reconcile your actions and thoughts. (IMHO)


It's all the same, it's all Quantum Physics.

Power of the mind



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 03:40 PM
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a reply to: Peacetime

From my point of view:

The placebo effect have it's own rules and can be quantified by science if they want to seek the answer on a quantum level. A good start would be to learn how you can manipulate a microtubule with different probability fields and see if you can create entanglement in one particle of a microtuble to another particle in another microtubule to so that a change in one microtuble effect the other.

But you need to learn how to measure probability fields and entanglement to be able to become aware of what is going on. And humanity have not created the tools for that yet.

So we are stuck with sound manipulation that is a very crude tool compared to manipulation on the quantum level.

www.quantumconsciousness.org...


edit on 5-2-2016 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 09:58 PM
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I know next to nothing about magik or prayer. I was taught the basic principles of being a decent Christian as a child but haven't actively practiced it since my childhood. Just not a very spiritual person, I guess you could say. My Dad once told me he had a great aunt who was "magic" and supposedly he saw her make a table "dance" as if it were alive. I thought at first he was kidding but I could tell it troubled him deeply. I told him I that stuff isn't real and he said, "oh its real, alright. I asked him about ojia boards and all he said was don't ever ever mess with one. The look on his face and the tone he spoke, stayed with me all these years and ive been afraid to look into it ever since. Ive never had any mystical, magical stuff happen to me and I'm just fine with that.



posted on Feb, 6 2016 @ 04:53 PM
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I feel the terms "witchcraft" or even "occult" are both ambiguous and subjective. There are many different actions, motivations, and schools of knowledge which seem to be lumped under these terms for various reasons. However, that doesn't make them incompatible with the teachings of God, Jesus, or Christianity.

Let's look at prayer, for example. As a Christian, you pray to God or Jesus for various things. Maybe for a sick family member. Maybe for protection. Maybe for things to finally go your way or a winning lottery ticket. People pray for all kinds of things... This is a human condition. Not one controlled by what kind of spirituality you follow.

So perhaps you object to HOW those prayers are made? I would challenge you to observe and understand the deeper meaning behind rituals in your church which you take for granted. Do you know why candles are lit at the altar? Do you know why a priest consecrates the room with incense? Did you even realize a consecration was taking place? Do you understand the significance of the body (bread) and blood (wine) and why Jesus specifically chose those to signify his covenant? There is a deeper esoteric meaning to these things which most people in mainstream religions have never been taught. Regardless, you practice them and they do have a metaphysical effect on your soul and spiritual transformation.

What "occultish" practices seem so threatening to you? Burnings, offerings, and sacrifices? Such things were also ordered by God. Look back through the Bible at the numerous scripture where altars were built and consecrated with the blood of a sacrifice. Think of Abraham and Isaac...God ordering Abraham to sacrifice his son. Or the Paschal Lamb...God ordering the sacrifice of the Paschal Lamb and the doors consecrated with the blood. Sometimes offerings are made with grain (Leviticus 2) or precious oils (spikenard oil in the alabaster jar). And then there are the burnt offerings... "It is most holy of the offerings to the Lord made by fire." (Leviticus 2) So these actions, alone, do not make them evil as they were ordered by God...

There are people who try to make the argument that "witchcraft" or "occult" are 'praying to different God(s)' which is against the 10 Commandments. To which I say, who are you to say you know God? It can be easily proven that we all learn differently. We all have different cultures and speak different internal and external languages. So why would God's teachings be one-size-fits-all??? Perhaps every "religion" is a true and honest facet of God...each meant to "talk" to a follower in a way that only God can do and guide toward inner development.

So maybe instead of passing judgement upon that which you don't understand, you should just focus on what works for you.



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: waarheid



Is witchcraft real? Are ghosts?


Yes, and yes. If you're interested, I can link up some homilies from YouTube about a Priest's personal experience with Witchcraft. IMHO, we don't know what ghosts are for sure. A good source for reference is Adam Blai. You can also Google him. He has a well informed opinion regarding what are "demons" vice "ghosts" which I'm sure breaks it down better than what I can do.

Cheers.



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