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On the Subject of the Occult

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posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 12:14 PM
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I have stumbled upon a YouTube video that brings up an interesting point. There are Christians out there who say they are faithful and believe in the Bible, but when you mention witchcraft or the paranormal, or anything not of this physical world, they will say something along the lines of "Oh, I don't believe in any of that mumbo-jumbo." This has always fascinated me because I can open up my bible and read from directly from the scriptures that this stuff is indeed a reality.

You can watch the video here, if interested:
www.youtube.com...

I am interested in what some of the Christians here think of the occult and why. Is witchcraft real? Are ghosts? If you don't believe they are then why? The scriptures say they are, so is there a kind of denial of scripture there?

Of course, this is all for the sake of friendly discussion. I honestly hope I don't offend anyone by asking. I will of course contribute whatever I can, so certainly feel free to throw my own beliefs under the bus, so to speak, because I certainly am not perfect and if I'm not as faithful to the scriptures as I should be I certainly want to be made aware of it.


PS - Is there a tutorial on placing a YouTube video in your post somewhere? You can PM the answer.
edit on 5-2-2016 by waarheid because: grammar fixes and stuff.

edit on 5-2-2016 by waarheid because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-2-2016 by waarheid because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: waarheid
There are two different issues involved; whether these powers are real, and whether people are trying to make use of them.
The Christians you meet are denying the first point, not the second.
The Bible is admitting the second point (and blaming them), not the first.
That's why there's no conflict between the two.

The scriptural viewpoint is that people ought not to get involved in these things, especially attempts to contact the dead.


edit on 5-2-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 12:30 PM
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Tutorial;

At the end of each YouTube link is a reference number...

Your video's is QVLIn9rC_6w...

You place that number between a bracketed [ yvid ] and follow up with [ /yvid ] without the spaces between the brackets.

Then your video will imbed.
edit on 5-2-2016 by CharlieSpeirs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: waarheid

Witchcraft is like magick as far as I understand. It is said that with magick, you can influence others, or other things by your thought or actions. It is also said that you reap what you sew.

Knowing all that, and factoring in the aspect of "prayer". Do you see any hypocrisy there? magick is said to be evil by some, but prayer is very similar. Where do you draw the line?

It's possible that the intent of the person is key, and evil is relative. It's all in what you believe. In how YOU reconcile your actions and thoughts. (IMHO)



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: waarheid

It would help to know how the respondents understand the question being asked. The question itself may be worded somewhat ambiguously. There is the issue of how one understands how the so-called occult or paranormal powers work. One needs to differentiate whether the activity is an innate ability of the person performing the activities or whether they are doing such activities because it is a spiritual entity that is doing it for them.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
magick is said to be evil by some, but prayer is very similar. Where do you draw the line?

In the Biblical perspective, the Creator God said "You shall have no other gods but me".
Prayer is addressing the Creator God.
Magic is addressing something other than the Creator God. That's the difference.
edit on 5-2-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Aren't you still asking for someone, or something to be altered by your thought or actions?

magick just doesn't' evoke a deity to my knowledge.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: network dude
magick is said to be evil by some, but prayer is very similar. Where do you draw the line?

In the Biblical perspective, the Creator God said "You shall have no other gods but me".
Prayer is addressing the Creator God.
Magic is addressing something other than the Creator God. That's the difference.


Also depends what is prayed for...

I personally don't pray for myself, but for others.

Taking my empathy to the head honcho...


Praying for self can border on Magick & in some cases divination, and I have no part in that anymore.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 12:53 PM
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a reply to: network dude
Prayer is a form of communication, person to person, making a request (which may or may not be granted).
Magic is a ritual designed to make things happen. Sir James Frazier regards it as a primitive version of science, because it works by attempted manipulation.

If the Biblical God has said "I allow you to communicate with me by prayer" and "I forbid you to get involved in magic", then that is sufficient reason for believers to engage in one and avoid the other.

"The are both trying to do the same thing" is beside the point.
The man who says to you "Please lend me some money" and the man who pulls a gun on you and says "Hand over your wallet" are both trying to achieve the same thing, but surely there's an obvious moral difference between the methods they're using?



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 12:53 PM
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A great deal of Christianity is taken directly from pagan sources and ritual.

It's ironic really.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
"The are both trying to do the same thing" is beside the point.

The man who says to you "Please lend me some money" and the man who pulls a gun on you and says "Hand over your wallet" are both trying to achieve the same thing, but surely there's an obvious moral difference between the methods they're using?



Are you saying that those people who attempt to use magic are trying to steal magic from god?

If gods take this kind of thing so seriously, why do christians call it 'mumbo-jumbo'?



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:07 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
I personally don't pray for myself, but for others.


Pray me up some Bourbon, Charles. Thank you.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: Prezbo369
In my analogy, magic is represented by the method of acquisition, not by the object being acquired.
I had thought that "One man talks to you, the other man hits you over the head with a crowbar" was expressing the difference between the two methods in a way that even the simplest understanding would be able to grasp.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: waarheid

There are two sources of power: God and the devil. We are to place our faith in God and the Holy Spirit will work in our lives, interact with us. God can give visions, speak to us, work in our lives.

Then there is the occult where you are bypassing God to get answers or power. You are opening a doorway to evil and it will take you deeper and deeper. You no longer have the protection of God when you willingly allow evil legal access to your life. Demons will masquerade as good and give you enough of the truth to keep you seeking further.

We are physical flesh in a spiritual world that is very active and very real and trying to take our eyes off God. That’s why we are to put on the armour of God and keep our faith in Him.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
If the Biblical God has said "I allow you to communicate with me by prayer" and "I forbid you to get involved in magic", then that is sufficient reason for believers to engage in one and avoid the other.




I suppose if that were the case, it would be clear cut for those who follow the Bible as a literal reference. But to my knowledge, God never said "I forbid you to get involved in magic".

I am not sure I even believe in magick, but nothing about the concept seems immoral or evil to me. And since I use the Bible as a guide as opposed to a history book, I have the luxury of interpreting God's word as it applies to me. (not that I feel my way is the only way, it's just my way)

Do you believe that God is against things like Hermetic teachings?



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:36 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
I personally don't pray for myself, but for others.


Pray me up some Bourbon, Charles. Thank you.


I was going to, but God said you had enough.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:43 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI




Prayer is addressing the Creator God


so in the OT which one of the pantheon would that be, The Lord, Jehovah, Baal....



Magic is addressing something other than the Creator God


Magic is utilizing the God connection within, claiming your own personal power, for the outcome you want.

Its a wonderful world where more individuals leave the fold of the sheep and are accountable for their own decisions.

No personal Jesus required, no middlemen, no vampyric priesthood class



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:46 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
I suppose if that were the case, it would be clear cut for those who follow the Bible as a literal reference. But to my knowledge, God never said "I forbid you to get involved in magic".

The laws attributed to the Biblical God say very clearly "Do not be a magician".
Specifically "There shall not be found among you anyone who... practises divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord" -Deuteronomy ch18 vv10-12. That list is designed to cover all the varieties of magic being practised at the time. So, in principle, magic in general.

edit on 5-2-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: network dude

The Book of Doodooronomy says it is okay.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 01:49 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: waarheid
There are two different issues involved; whether these powers are real, and whether people are trying to make use of them.
The Christians you meet are denying the first point, not the second.
The Bible is admitting the second point (and blaming them), not the first.
That's why there's no conflict between the two.

The scriptural viewpoint is that people ought not to get involved in these things, especially attempts to contact the dead.



Oh, yes. Definitely a good point. I definitely always understood to stay away from the stuff. And I understand what you're saying, but I'm more talking about people are indeed insisting the occult isn't real, and not that they don't practice it.

In my opinion a Christian shouldn't practice the occult at all. But... I know there are those who disagree. To each their own.
edit on 5-2-2016 by waarheid because: (no reason given)



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