Sanders Verses Trump, Lets Do This!

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: matafuchs

It is not about getting rid of funding for schools but to re-organize. Like immigration. It is not that I do not want to help. I just want to do it in the most efficient way with the least out of pocket from the taxpayer. Any candidate stating that want to increase to give is just putting a food in the door. Then when they do it again they say you let me the first time?

This we completely agree on.

No ones ever said the government's efficient.

Fix the waste.

Perhaps we can start with doing away with pointless wars and taxpayer paid subsidies to already obscenely profitable Corporations that do their business off shore to avoid paying their fair share.

Personally I think "wars" will become more international. I know the bottom line is always "power/money/money/power". So, I think the power governments will dictate how military's merge and for what purpose. Really not much different then now (just more official) as we come together to fight terrorism (real, planned, or "wag the dog").

Even if we term it "Peacekeeping", it's still war --- someone's gonna suffer, someone's gonna benefit.

As a Globalist, I still think there is a push to level out all economies -- basically put every country on the same playing field. Or maybe it's just my rational thinking.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

Nothing in life is free. But this is a good example of a Sander-ism.

You demand something from me. I put a price on the product.

You want the product for free.

Now, would a Sanders presidency eliminate all government corruption?

Obama has greatly increased the cost of living for all. The whole reason behind higher minimum wage or a living wage ideal is the cost of living under Obama has shot up to where people need more to live on now, but they do not see the reason other than their employer doesn't pay enough now to fix it. The one saving grace is gas prices that he had nothing to do with, so think if gas was 4 buck a gallon right now...lol

Bernie would go the other way and reduce income through higher taxes...it would be like a one two punch..lights out situation.

On the other hand we have the old evil bitch..lord what a selection.

Then we have Trump (are you kidding me) and Cruz (extremely smart and extremely religious) no thanks on both..I'm at the point to just throw in Rubio and say put up or shut up.

Poverty, income inequality, whatever other injustices you feel like throwing in, are not the result of a lack of safety-net, a lack of welfare, or less government. To say we need more of those skirts the very issues Sanders supporters claim to be against. It seems like Sanders only wants those who suffer under those conditions to feel slightly better while doing so, rewarding them with money, while doing absolutely nothing to change those conditions.

I'm going to vote for whoever is opposing the LEFT. I won't do anymore "Liberalism"...I'm done even entertaining the thought of a Democrat. After the past 8 years, and what is going on in Europe, our Immigration into America...I know that it will go into hyperdrive with any Leftist in office.

Republicans are giving us garbage, but I have no choice personally than to vote for whoever opposes Hillary or Bernie.

Sucks, but that's how it is.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
I'm going to vote for whoever is opposing the LEFT. I won't do anymore "Liberalism"...I'm done even entertaining the thought of a Democrat. After the past 8 years, and what is going on in Europe, our Immigration into America...I know that it will go into hyperdrive with any Leftist in office.

Republicans are giving us garbage, but I have no choice personally than to vote for whoever opposes Hillary or Bernie.

Sucks, but that's how it is.

But...The past 8 years haven't been that bad.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
I'm going to vote for whoever is opposing the LEFT. I won't do anymore "Liberalism"...I'm done even entertaining the thought of a Democrat. After the past 8 years, and what is going on in Europe, our Immigration into America...I know that it will go into hyperdrive with any Leftist in office.

Republicans are giving us garbage, but I have no choice personally than to vote for whoever opposes Hillary or Bernie.

Sucks, but that's how it is.

But...The past 8 years haven't been that bad.

According to whom?

Everyone gets emotional about government healthcare.

I try to look at it practically. How will doctors and nurses get paid and who will determine their salaries?

Government is corrupt.
That is a fact that no person can deny, though some seem to try.

To make government bigger, invites more corruption.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I've noticed that so far all your arguments are all hypothetical "what if's". Many of which have real world examples showing how other nations have solved them already.

Now, that doesn't mean you're incorrect or that some of the situations you bring up could never happen but they are all rooted in a fear of something changing and loss of control. But in reality, things change and control is an illusion.

All your attention is focused on what could possibly go wrong based off corruption. But that isn't a reason to disagree with the policies. It's a reminder to rid the world of corruption and bad policies. Otherwise you end up making more bad choices which keep the corruption in control and keep the corrupt as the ones in charge.

At some point you have to make the courageous choice to change things and stand behind that choice or it will never happen. So far we've lived a history of not having that courage and slowly watching the results which the massive majority are suffering from and are now ready to change. If not now, when???

a reply to: mOjOm

You are correct on something.

It is about control. Before Obamacare, I could get insurance or not. It wasn't mandated. I lost control of choice.

Under government care, I won't have any control. I won't have a say in treatment, realistically. I will have to place my trust, control into the government to look out for my best health interests.

If I am a medical professional, I won't have control over my salary.

It is government removing the responsibility for an individual to take care of themselves.

So yes, I fear the loss of control.

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Sanders wants bigger government.

So he's a nope for me.

Sanders has already said he wants to raise my taxes by at least 9%.

No.

Just no.



www.zerohedge.com...

Bernie Sander’s tax plan: it calls for massive tax hikes across the board. Why raise taxes on the middle class? Because that’s where the money is.

Thats the cost of a decent country. You forget to mention all the services you will save on, and the alround developement this will cause. So this doesnt give a fair representation at all. For this you get free school, free healthcare, more jobs = higher incomes, less war = higher incomes. And an actual middle class: meaning you have more to spend and you dont have work 3 jobs to make ends meet.

But I wouldnt focuss too much on this since I imagine he will have to make compromises on the taxing, so you probably get the services with less income tax than imagined and still paying for some services, but a whole lot less than now. But thats just my guess.

Its a shame we cant see a Sanders/Trump or a Trump/Sanders ticket for November. Would be very interesting and possibly of benefit to the entire country. But who would run against the everyday style politicians in each party if they could and did ? No matter who any of the parties through at them , they would dominate the election...period

originally posted by: DBCowboy

It is about control. Before Obamacare, I could get insurance or not. It wasn't mandated. I lost control of choice.

So, you don't have insurance, you get sick --- we just let you die?

The concept is, if everyone is insured --- those who choose to be responsible and get insurance on their own (by choice) ---- do not have to pay (because someone always has to pay) for those who are irresponsible and don't bother with insurance.

As far as force goes --- you do know that laws are force, right? Laws force people in a society to behave and be civil to each other.

Unless you are a hermit living in a cave completely away from society, you are forced by government every day.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
I'm going to vote for whoever is opposing the LEFT. I won't do anymore "Liberalism"...I'm done even entertaining the thought of a Democrat. After the past 8 years, and what is going on in Europe, our Immigration into America...I know that it will go into hyperdrive with any Leftist in office.

Republicans are giving us garbage, but I have no choice personally than to vote for whoever opposes Hillary or Bernie.

Sucks, but that's how it is.

But...The past 8 years haven't been that bad.

According to whom?

Well me. I mean I know we have a disagreement and I know you can produce a list of things that Obama has or hasn't done, except. The overall picture is what matters and for most Americans the last 8 years have been pretty good.

a reply to: whatsup86

Free useless degrees for idiots who will not be able to get a job with their useless degree.... check.

My healthcare is good, I need an MRI, I get one next day... so crap healthcare that makes the VA look good... check.

originally posted by: WonOunce
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

What about Rand?

Well he quit, so now were left with a bunch of ultra polarizing guys.
I agree that neither would be great for the country, but we sure could do worse, looking at another Clinton or Bush, just no. If we are going to have a mess in Washington let's at least have it look fresh with new people.

If you are voting in the primaries vote for either Trump or Sanders whatever tickles your idealogical fancy, but pick a side and forget the rest.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: DBCowboy

Nothing in life is free. But this is a good example of a Sander-ism.

You demand something from me. I put a price on the product.

You want the product for free.

Now, would a Sanders presidency eliminate all government corruption?

Obama has greatly increased the cost of living for all. The whole reason behind higher minimum wage or a living wage ideal is the cost of living under Obama has shot up to where people need more to live on now, but they do not see the reason other than their employer doesn't pay enough now to fix it. The one saving grace is gas prices that he had nothing to do with, so think if gas was 4 buck a gallon right now...lol

Bernie would go the other way and reduce income through higher taxes...it would be like a one two punch..lights out situation.

On the other hand we have the old evil bitch..lord what a selection.

Then we have Trump (are you kidding me) and Cruz (extremely smart and extremely religious) no thanks on both..I'm at the point to just throw in Rubio and say put up or shut up.

actually obama saved me money, healthcare under my last employer was 300 a month, obamacare kicked in and i switched to 50 bucks a month.

i was so glad i didnt have to rely on my obama hating employer anymore.


thats all i have to say on this matter, trump would be a disaster, there's a lot we could do to fix our government, the discussion is Sanders vs Trump. i choose Sanders

originally posted by: vjr1113

actually obama saved me money, healthcare under my last employer was 300 a month, obamacare kicked in and i switched to 50 bucks a month.

Mine went the other way, it cost me about 5 times more than it did before Obama. Actually employers love Obamacare since they can pay 50% and make out so much better in employee healthcare cost they would pay otherwise. Have you used your care yet?

a reply to: Xtrozero

yes glasses, chiropractor for my messed up spine, dentist, and general physical. 15 bucks for consultation each up front.

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: Xtrozero

yes glasses, chiropractor for my messed up spine, dentist, and general physical. 15 bucks for consultation each up front.

From what I've read. Premiums that went up were because the company or premium was not providing full coverage in the first place.

Some premiums went down because they covered more then was required.

Easy. Trump.

Next?

(NOTE: I am not a Trump supporter, and I agree with Bernie about crony corporatism. The problem is that his 'solutions' will make the situation worse. Corporations *LOVE* big government. They can avoid or absorb regulations that crush small business.)