Sanders Verses Trump, Lets Do This!

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein


As to being "poorer", your life will overtime become greatly enriched with real value, real peace of mind and perhaps real happiness. Things that money can't really buy.

The US government is corrupt. I have yet to see anyone who claims otherwise.

Is there any government in the world you would consider uncorrupted?

Nope.

Are you going to justify the corruption in the US government by pointing out that other governments are just as corrupt?

Kinda what I thought.

Justify? Wouldn't I need a comparative? A model to show how it can be done right?

You're obfuscating.

Is the US government corrupt?

It's really a simple question.

Of course it's corrupt, but the Donald will put things right...you'll see!!!

So another Sanders supporter heard from!

Another time you are making the wrong assumption and talking out of your butt.

I'm mostly undecided but Gov Gary Johnson is a friend and I might vote for him ....again.

One thing is certain, I will not be voting for any fascist that permeate the GOP.

Awww, you've proven me wrong.

Collect your trophy.

a reply to: amazing

Trying to do what is right does not pay the bill either. As far as Trump, he has nothing to gain as president. He can already do what he wants. That is another thing to like about a candidate. Most are doing it for the notch...I think Huck and Paul are the only two that are not besides Trump.

It is not about getting rid of funding for schools but to re-organize. Like immigration. It is not that I do not want to help. I just want to do it in the most efficient way with the least out of pocket from the taxpayer. Any candidate stating that want to increase to give is just putting a food in the door. Then when they do it again they say you let me the first time?

It is not easy but an extra tax on me could be the difference between both spouses busting their humps and saving to send them to a private school or sending them to the scary C school that is not in the best area that they are bused to.

Small government, Flat/Fair tax and allow the taxpayer to pump money into the economy. The 1% will save but other will have a better birthday party for their kid by renting a bounce house from a local small business instead of that small business having to lay off his part time employees based on higher taxes. An extra 6% payroll tax for employers would be tough...

Sanders is a well spoken, lifelong politician, who can actually debate....but he's a Marxist with policies that will cripple us to points unseen,

Trump is a blowhard narcissist egomaniac who can't formulate a specific thought long enough before his mouth writes checks, who treats his campaign like a WWE Wrestling arena contest.....but who has more sensible/correct policies.

Bernie Sanders would be honest....but honestly tank us.

Trump would be honest too...would fix main issues....but might end up NUKING Canada to make a point, if he felt snubbed.

Take your pick

originally posted by: matafuchs

It is not about getting rid of funding for schools but to re-organize. Like immigration. It is not that I do not want to help. I just want to do it in the most efficient way with the least out of pocket from the taxpayer. Any candidate stating that want to increase to give is just putting a food in the door. Then when they do it again they say you let me the first time?

This we completely agree on.

No ones ever said the government's efficient.

Fix the waste.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I can't get behind anyone who openly states that I'm going to be poorer if only I support them.

Do you currently have health insurance?
How much is your deductible?
Are you paying the premiums yourself, or is an employer paying at least part (if not most) of it?
How much is your premium per month?

What you need to realize is that with Bernie's plan, you DON'T have to pay additional premiums. Your employer doesn't have to cover you, either. Just that small tax increase...and your premiums and your copays and deductibles and in/out of network choices (problems) GO AWAY.
They disappear.


HOW do you not understand that?
The extra tax MORE THAN makes up for the out-of-pocket expenses and dip into your paycheck, and ALSO relieves your employer of paying for you too!!!!!

Wages can go up if the employers aren't paying half or more of your premium cost.
Your income can go up by you not having 'health insurance' deducted from every check, but only by a relatively small increase in your taxes.

Is this too complicated for you to understand?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You say "small tax increase" like it's a good thing.

And I suppose I'll be able to keep my doctor and the same level of care?

Funny how you, a person on the internet, can guarantee that.

So, this won't be corrupted by an already corrupt government?

There will be no over spending or waste?

Because government doesn't have a sterling track record for financials.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: matafuchs

It is not about getting rid of funding for schools but to re-organize. Like immigration. It is not that I do not want to help. I just want to do it in the most efficient way with the least out of pocket from the taxpayer. Any candidate stating that want to increase to give is just putting a food in the door. Then when they do it again they say you let me the first time?

This we completely agree on.

No ones ever said the government's efficient.

Fix the waste.

Perhaps we can start with doing away with pointless wars and taxpayer paid subsidies to already obscenely profitable Corporations that do their business off shore to avoid paying their fair share.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

and ALSO relieves your employer of paying for you too!!!!!

Wages can go up if the employers aren't paying half or more of your premium cost.
Your income can go up by you not having 'health insurance' deducted from every check, but only by a relatively small increase in your taxes.

Is this too complicated for you to understand?

This is wrong I'm afraid. The employer will have to pay 6% Payroll Tax on ALL employees to help to fund UHC. It is worse than the ACA. It is not threatening a fine it is simply imposing it. It then adds a 2% tax to the employee.

You think co-pays will go away? Or that deductibles will not be sky high? UHC in the US cannot work. The only way it could work is if you let the states have control. Let them collect the taxes and cover the services. The Federal Government should NOT be involved in making decisions about health care.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

What leads you to the conclusion that government will be able to take over healthcare and make it better?

I don't want government in charge of my healthcare.

Is that too difficult to understand?

trump is a well educated man from the business world . he knows you cant say things like that if you want to be president, and for 30 years he has contributed to democrat campaigns
he does not want to be president, he just wants to devide republican voters. the more rep candidates there are, the less votes each candidate gets. his whole campaign is all about insuring the election of another socialist president like obama bin laden. because socialism is good for big bussiness.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Dude, it is simple math -

you pay a little bit in taxes, and you DON'T HAVE TO PAY PREMIUMS OR COPAYS OR WORRY ABOUT DEDUCTIBLES!!!!!

Broken leg? Bummer!!! No sweat financially. No $1000 deductible on top of a $200 ER visit copay.....and then 25% of the screws and hospital charges and meds.......

Instead, you pay x amount in taxes, and don't have to worry about deductibles and copays and all that crap.
Your employer ALSO doesn't have to "choose a plan" or pay part/all of your premium, which gives them more money to PAY PEOPLE - instead of paying (let's see on Mr Wigs W-2....*doot duh doot....looking*)...ahh, here it is: 11,703 dollars toward health insurance....money that WE could have had if only......
if only it wasn't that much for the company to pay health insurance......
That is a thousand dollars MORE per month that we could be bringing home.......
but instead, it gets sunk into the system, and we STILL have $1000 deductibles, and copays, and in-network restrictions, etc.


Think it over.
You're not so dim that you can't get the drift.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm smart enough to know that "just a tiny itty bitty tax increase" won't lead to a glorious workers paradise.

Show me how government won't tax my employer more.
Show me that I'll have the same or better healthcare.

Show me how government will be more efficient.

You can't.

Government has never been about being efficient.
Government has never been about saving money.
Government just wants control.

a reply to: DBCowboy

/shrug

You just don't get it.

You don't. And won't even try to think outside your narrow cell on the block.

That's on you.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: DBCowboy

/shrug

You just don't get it.

You don't. And won't even try to think outside your narrow cell on the block.

That's on you.

Would I have the freedom to opt out?
No.
Would I have the freedom to determine the level of care?
No.

You want me and everyone else to give that up for government control over healthcare.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I'd like to have the freedom to opt out of paying for boots on the ground and carpet bombing campaigns.
Be careful..........

I take it you aren't married and don't have kids?

Fine. Opt out. Stop paying your taxes. Heaven knows, that's what the megacorps are doing!!! Nono, demand cash, evade a tax return, and stash your cash in the Caymans.....

go you!!!!! That works, too -

Let us know how it goes.
And when your loved ones need care, we'll just inform them that you opted out, so none of them are covered......

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

What leads you to the conclusion that government will be able to take over healthcare and make it better?

I don't want government in charge of my healthcare.

Is that too difficult to understand?

Hey, why not... the VA is working so well

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Healthcare is not a right.

It is a commodity to be purchased.

A right is not something that depends on others.

You want government control. I get that.

Go for it. Knock yourself out.

I do not like, nor do I trust the government. And nothing you can do or say will ever change that.

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

What leads you to the conclusion that government will be able to take over healthcare and make it better?

I don't want government in charge of my healthcare.

Is that too difficult to understand?

Hey, why not... the VA is working so well

Exactly.

Every hospital will be the VA and every line will be like the DMV.

Some paradise, huh?

The government is already too much a part of my life. The Federal Government has not balanced the budget in over 15 years so we want them to take over healthcare. It would be like letting a crackhead pay your bills. It will not end will or with any money left.

The way to make it work is allow a person to get it from where ever they like. You can do that with the Obamacare marketplace so why not the free market? Create competition to drive down prices. If someone in NY could get the same policy for half the price in Virginia you would have companies in NY coming down and making better offers. Ever since the government has stepped in with the ACA premiums have skyrocketed as well as deductibles. Coincidence? I think not. The government is no good....

a reply to: DBCowboy

Healthcare is not a right.

I guess - if you're a cave-man's kid who just got mauled by a lion; your cave-tribe can decide while you're bleeding out that they'd rather just let you die (while wringing their hands and weeping, of course.......)

in my estimation, when the entire world CAN HAVE HEALTHCARE due to technology and science, but they don't, that is unconscionable in terms of priorities.

Okay, then - we'll tell your loved ones that, too -
"Cowboy has proclaimed that it's not your right to have healthcare. Sorry.... So - we are simply going to watch as you die. He signed this opt-out DNR/DNT (do not rescuscitate/do not treat) paper. So - no help for you. Too bad, so sad, thanks for playing. See you on the flip side. sigh"



Nice.