It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Disinfo on Display: Lavoy Finicum

page: 3
26
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 01:54 PM
link   

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

I wonder why the benefit of the doubt is never given to the police considering up until the moment they killed that guy the police were actively trying NOT to end up with a conspiracy theory on their hands. Then one guy resists arrest and suddenly everyone is pretending like we witnessed the next Waco.


Many people *are* giving the benefit of the doubt.




Is it? It seems the name of the game these days is to find any little obscure reason to exonerate this guy while painting the police as having executed him in cold blood. Could have fooled me. Especially coming from you.
edit on 8-2-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 02:05 PM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

To address the claim of there being French mercenaries of the IMF in Burns, I still haven't figured out to my own satisfaction why that claim was made in the first place but I came across something last night and I thought of your post.

I was looking at my YouTube account and saw a video (I'm not a subscriber to this channel, it was a suggested video by YouTube) which I decided to watch. It's not the video because the person who made it is royally PO'd and I've heard enough anger on the Internet, but it's a person who made a bunch of comments underneath the video who caught my attention. This person states s/he lives in Burns.

Oh! I just thought of something. Can you/do you read comments under YouTube videos?
edit on 8-2-2016 by tweetie because: correction



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 04:06 PM
link   
a reply to: tweetie

I've been listening to Shawna again. Ryan B. was taken away in an ambulance from the shooting scene so he was not put in the big van which was driven to pick up the other men at the first stop.



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 06:26 PM
link   
a reply to: tweetie

Thank you Tweetie!

I'm reading your messages... but I smashed my fingers today and can't type too good so I'll try to get back to you tomorrow. (I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you.)



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 06:34 PM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

Yikes!! Ouch!! I'm so sorry about your fingers and hope they are much better tomorrow. How ironic! I figured you were busy and would come back soon because you are good at tending to your threads. I will continue posting about those comments I mentioned. Feel better!



posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 06:43 PM
link   
And now a new possibility.

Matador Cattle Company

and google " corporate cattle ranches " for more exciting stories.




posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 12:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

I wonder why the benefit of the doubt is never given to the police considering up until the moment they killed that guy the police were actively trying NOT to end up with a conspiracy theory on their hands. Then one guy resists arrest and suddenly everyone is pretending like we witnessed the next Waco.


Many people *are* giving the benefit of the doubt.




Is it? It seems the name of the game these days is to find any little obscure reason to exonerate this guy while painting the police as having executed him in cold blood. Could have fooled me. Especially coming from you.


For my part, I made the Finicum did not have a death wish. Mainstream media distorted the facts thread because I discovered through researching the issue that Finicum did not have a death wish, and that mainstream media distorted the facts. As for him being gunned down by authorities, I just can't help but call it as I see it. Looks to me like they gunned him down, whether it was murder, trigger happiness, or something else. All of the evidence presented thus far (and the evidence not presented thus far) points clearly to that conclusion, which is why I've reached it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

Any obscure reason? Please tell me you have this mythical smoking gun Finicum death wish video where he's jumping around and telling the cops he's gonna kill 'em all. Please post it in my thread so I can admit I was wrong and we can put that baby to bed. I don't think you can. I've seen a lot of spin, but no actual evidence that the man had a death wish. A good deal of evidence to the contrary, in fact.



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 07:06 AM
link   
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Here's the thing, I don't trust amateur detectives on the internet. You don't have all the evidence, so pretending like you can piece together a reasonable facsimile of what happened is rather naive. I see nothing to suggest that he had been gunned down other than circumstantial evidence from overly biased internet detectives. I also cannot think of a motive why the police would ONLY gun down one of these guys and not all of them. So I see no other reason but to side with the police on this one. That is unless YOU have a smoking gun against this. In other words, better video, or some audio of what went down. If not then the official story is good enough for me. Bad guy got what's coming to him because he reached for a gun. Case closed.



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 12:00 PM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

What I've been thinking for a while is a lot of the analysis and discussion done by "amateur detectives on the Internet' is the same digging a team of paralegals and an attorney would do if the Finicum family files a lawsuit.



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 12:02 PM
link   
a reply to: tweetie

The difference being that paralegals and attorneys are professionals, trained to interpret law and figure out whats what legally and "amateur detectives on the internet" are just a bunch of keyboard warriors who think they know more than they do because they can google things.

If the family thinks there is something there, then by all means they should sue. If they win, I'll be one of the first to say I was wrong. I'm not afraid to admit such things.
edit on 9-2-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 01:15 PM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Think what you want, guy. This is a public discussion forum. I'm just stating my opinions and providing supporting evidence. With that in mind...As to Mr. Finicum (not!) having a death wish, here's a little evidence to support my claims:

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie
Oregon Public Broadcasting posted a piece to their website entitled LaVoy Finicum: Profile Of A Malheur Occupier. Their Think Out Loud radio show conducted a twenty four minute interview with Mr. Finicum, looks like it was on January 5th, 2016, which is also posted at this link.

At about the 4:14 mark in that interview, when the interviewer(Dave Miller) asks him if they are there to overthrow the county and federal governments as Sherrif Ward had claimed, Mr Finicum responds:

Let me be very clear, Dave. I believe in government, okay? We need government. I believe in the federal government. We need the federal government. Um. But, the federal government needs to adhere to their most important responsibilities, which are clearly outlined in the constitution. They need to protect our borders, defend our nation. The things of the state, need to be handled by the state government. The things of the county, need to be handled by the county government. So, uh, most definitely, I uphold governments, both federal, state, and county, and so, yeah I really, I really do believe in government, and I do want to uphold that, and so, please don't get me wrong.


At about the 22 minute mark, the interviewer asks Mr Finicum: "Are you willing to die for this cause?" To which Mr Finicum responds:

Oh I don't want to die! I have children and grandchildren! I want to go home! I want to ride, and take care of my cows, and spend time with my kids and my wife! I mean, hell that's not what I intend to do, but uh, I most certainly love freedom, and if freedom is not more valuable than life, then, do we really deserve it?

Then

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie
This next video interview with Mr. Finicum was recorded on January 7th, 2016, the day after the infamous tarp interview. Mr. Finicum speaks with Dena Akruri of the AJ+ youtube channel.

Transcribing from the video, I'll begin at 7:15:

Me personally I want to leave as soon as possible but I will stay as long as necessary, to help these ranchers resolve their plight, just as a neighbor, one neighbor to another neighbor; so, as long as necessary, and as soon as possible.
Dena: And you're hoping not to fire your gun?
Finicum: No, we're not...No, no, no firing guns, nobody's gonna fire their guns. I want to keep everybody safe. You know, law enforcement's lives are precious, they have family members, they have loved ones just as we do, and so there's never any need of that.


edit on 9-2-2016 by TheBadCabbie because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-2-2016 by TheBadCabbie because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 03:42 PM
link   
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I've read a lot of very intelligent and thoughtful commentary from non-professionals at various websites on the Internet about this story.
I've also read a lot of commentary at various websites which I would describe as lacking in substance or thought.




posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 04:59 PM
link   
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Your post nicely supports your position.

Going back to the MSNBC interview which I agree was very leading on the part of the reporter, and which was done a few days after LaVoy arrived at the refuge, at that time LaVoy stated he thought there was a warrant out for his arrest but MSNBC stated they couldn't find any evidence of it.

What's important, in my viewpoint, is at that time, LaVoy was under the impression he was going to be arrested and he would've been thinking a whole lot about that possibility and what he would do if he was, which is why he was sitting out in the open under his tarp so the FBI didn't have to look for him if they came for him. (Actually, perhaps MSNBC unknowingly played a part in his not being arrested early on in the stand-off by doing that interview.)

All law enforcement would have added such statements LaVoy made about "not living in a concrete box" and "sometimes there are more important things than a life" and "I crossed the Rubicon" to the weighty profile I'm sure they already had on him because of the Cliven Bundy Ranch story. I surmise there were a lot of angry BLM/law enforcement people from back then who had a vengeful attitude towards LaVoy because they ended up having to leave the Bundy Ranch when that stand-off took place. They had this man on their radar already, as well as anyone else showing up at the refuge.

Since the arrest LaVoy anticipated did not occur, his frame of mind moved onto other things (living his life) and soon the occupiers were moving freely around town talking to people (including the FBI), going to meetings and holding interviews. While being arrested was probably always in the back of his mind as a possibility, he was determined to attempt to have a different outcome at the refuge which is well-documented.
edit on 9-2-2016 by tweetie because: added a comma :-)



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 06:39 PM
link   
a reply to: xuenchen
a reply to: TheBadCabbie
a reply to: tweetie
a reply to: FamCore

This might be worth its own thread if anyone is so inclined:

Audio of Haunting Oath Keepers Phone Call With LaVoy Finicum Two Days Before His Death


Recording of phone call by Oath Keepers to Lavoy Finicum, two days before his death, urging him and the Bundy brothers to make a “lateral, tactical move” to a constitutional sheriff’s county, to continue to spread the message of western land rights and organizing ranchers, under the protection of a strong sheriff, and warning him that all indicators pointed to the “the powers that be” being mere days away from shutting down their ability to spread that message, one way or another.


Perhaps it's my own confirmation bias, but I've always felt in my gut that the Occupiers were getting too much support and favorable attention, and the feds were determined to make an example of them for anyone and everyone else who would dare challenge their absolute authority... especially those so brazen as to actually defend themselves from rogue federal agents.

Militia at Malheur: ‘Virus was spreading’

Can't have that donchaknow!

I'd post it myself but I just can't type fast enough to keep up with it, so if anyone else wants to make a thread, please do!



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 07:03 PM
link   
a reply to: tweetie


I was looking at my YouTube account and saw a video (I'm not a subscriber to this channel, it was a suggested video by YouTube) which I decided to watch. It's not the video because the person who made it is royally PO'd and I've heard enough anger on the Internet, but it's a person who made a bunch of comments underneath the video who caught my attention. This person states s/he lives in Burns.


Do tell!!! What did they have to say???


Oh! I just thought of something. Can you/do you read comments under YouTube videos?


Oh yes! I read comments everywhere. Quite often there's one or two comments that are more informative than the article/video or provides background info to put the article's selected details into perspective or otherwise tells "the rest of the story." When I see an article slammed with substanceless comments that simply serve to distract and/or convolute the truth, I start looking for that one gem that someone is trying to bury. Much like we saw immediately after Finicum's killing...



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 07:06 PM
link   
a reply to: tweetie


To address the claim of there being French mercenaries of the IMF in Burns, I still haven't figured out to my own satisfaction why that claim was made in the first place


If you come up with anything, I'd be interested in hearing what you think.

For now, I think it was simple disinformation. It was meant to be totally outrageous and sensational, to go viral, then be debunked, discredit anyone and everyone who supports the Occupiers in any way, and hide the real truth about what is going on in Burns and Harney County.



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 07:09 PM
link   
a reply to: tweetie

Your points are well taken. I'm not ready to throw Facebook Boy to the wolves --- yet. It's not one thing that has me suspicious of him, but the combination of his actions -- before, during and after the death trap. I'll be keeping my eye on him though...



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 07:12 PM
link   
a reply to: tweetie

I also thought it was interesting that he was sitting out there, and this was sort of used to try and promote the notion that he was waiting for "the showdown", when in reality he was trying to make it easy on the authorities and other occupiers should they show up to bring him in. In other words, he was sitting out there 'so that they didn't have to go kicking in doors in the middle of the night', just like he said. The man was actually trying to be considerate to all parties involved, even if that meant him getting taken away in handcuffs. He says in that interview when the reporter mentions the vehicles that had been moved to act as a barricade, that he had nothing to do with that. He really thought they might be coming to arrest him that night, and was trying to make it easy for them to find and arrest him.



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 07:28 PM
link   
a reply to: Boadicea

Funny you should type that, I had just seen that piece with the audio in another thread and had thought about posting it in another reply. It sounds like if they had ddmau'ed to the other county where a constitutional sheriff had presided, the feds would have had a really tough time shutting down their efforts to spread their message within the community. They were on their way to meet with another county's sheriff, too, weren't they? Perhaps the authorities felt that they needed to pre-empt these boys moving to a position that would have allowed them to gain more traction...



posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 08:08 PM
link   
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

Exactly. And apparently there were a lot of sympathetic/empathetic ears at that meeting they were going to:

Inside the John Day meeting where Oregon standoff leaders were headed before arrest

I'm thinking about this in combination with what you were saying about the MSNBC reporter trying so hard to get Lavoy to say something -- anything! -- incriminating. He didn't and wouldn't, so they have had to twist his assertion that he had no intention of doing anything to put himself in a "concrete box," into a solemn vow that he would kill anyone that tried to arrest or detain him.... even as he made himself as obvious and accessible as possible.
edit on 9-2-2016 by Boadicea because: spelling




top topics



 
26
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join