Bernie can give the Country over to the Elite…Wholly!

Very Easy. The democratic voters can get exited over a Progressive candidate WHO PROMISES THINGS HE CANT DELIVER LIKE Obama did.

If Bernie Sanders gets the democratic nomination because Hillary’s sleaze catches up to her, Bernie will likely cause more damage to the people he wants to help than anything Hillary could have done.

And unless Bernie can win big in the general election and have coattails and elect a democratic congress and senate Bernie won't do a dam thing as president for progressive causes because the congress and elite wont let him do a dam thing, that’s if he got elected.

What he probably will do is allow for a GOP rout of the election by not only cementing the GOP hold over congress and senate but worst... elect a GOP president!

All for the fantasy of electing a progressive president like Bernie.

Bernie knows this is the case. In fact months ago he said it himself.

That if he got elected he alone couldn’t do a dam thing unless he had massive help from the public and congress.

In a general election a 74 year old Jewish socialist may get creamed in mainstream America and the Democratic Party may find itself ruined…

Imagine the millions of dollars in adds that will go against Bernie as they scare the American people with the fear of voting in a socialist!

www.huffingtonpost.com...

"A lot of Democrats up and down the line -- governors, U.S. senators, members of Congress -- have organically expressed worry about the prospect of sharing a ballot with Sen. Sanders. I think they have raised apt points," Fallon said. "Despite all of Sen. Sanders' ability to invoke general election polls, I don't think they tell the story at all in terms of what will actually be true in a general election context, if the hundreds of millions of dollars that the Republicans have on their side are all aimed in his direction."

It’s not fair, it’s not right but it’s the practical reality of American politics in 2016.

Indeed Bernie is a nice guy with great ideas but the practical political reality may hold that he may ruin his own voter’s interests by beating a weakened Hillary Clinton.

No offense, but I'm a little confused by your point.

We already have Republican majorities in both chambers of Congress. However, one third of the Senators and all of the members of the House of Representatives are up for election this year. If Bernie is elected President, he won't have to deal with a Republican controlled Congress unless those same Bernie voters also vote in Republican majorities in the House of Reps and vote in Republican Senators. That's what he means when he says he can't do it alone. It's reminding voters that they still have to pick progressive candidates in the other elections, as well.

The other point is the assumption that Hillary could someone work better with a hypothetical Republican controlled Congress than Bernie could. Republicans hate her. The only time she & the Republicans have ever agreed on policies is when they were Republican policies! So is that what you mean, that Bernie wouldn't compromise himself to Republican policies the way Hillary would? Or that Bernie wouldn't support more welfare cuts & harsher mandatory minimum sentencing like Bill did when he was President (which was against the left wing's desires). Or like Hillary's pro-Iraq war vote, or Bill & Hillary's involvement in implementing the "War on Drugs" in Arkansas while allowing Reagan's CIA to ship coc aine into Mena?

And let's not forget, the Republican controlled Congress has blocked the crap out of President Obama's agenda & nominees, not to mention the actual progressive proposals like "Cap and Trade" and the Dream Act (which was itself a watered down immigration reform law). So why should we believe Republicans will act any differently under any Democratic President, be it Hillary, Bernie, or Biden?

a reply to: Willtell

If all that Bernie represented was himself than I could see what you are saying.

Bernie has become a threat to the establishment because of the younger generation have funded him. There are great changes that are occuring and many corrupt members of the repulican/democrats are on their way out of this world. The youth are the driving force of the political revolution.

We have educated our parents and their friends about the corruption that exists within the two party system. It extends out to every aspect of our slave society and people are sick of it. The concentration of wealth has gone to far, their greed has gotten to a level that is absurd and everyone, and I do mean everyone can see this.

The problem has historically been apathy, the idea of taking 10 minutes out of the year to go "vote" and then ending your involvement in the process is over. We are going to see great changes and those politicians within office are already marked with their guilt in their voting history.

We even see this on the opposite spectrum with the popularity of Trump. He simply has captured the opposite side of things that being the older world view that people have had, hence why the geriatric community like him. We have polar opposites that represent the changing ideas of everyone.

The general theme, no one wants another corrupt democrat or republican, the change is inevitable!

a reply to: Willtell

Adding due to double-post.

We are truly living in exciting times.

Our technological evolution has skyrocketed so far ahead we can barely comprehend where we will be in as little as 10 years.

What is needed beyond anything is for our spiritual evolution to catch up. Clearly we have utilized our scientific method to figure out much about the world however the core question of consciousness is what we must focus on.

We are not separate and we are not here to profit off of each other at the expense of our conscience and habitat. It is time to take care of one another. The whole world is in a psuedo-debt of imaginary money and people are quite sick of this around the globe.

Bernie is not hear to fix everything, he represents the will of the people to do so.

As the Mayans correctly predicted 2012 was the end of a certain form of consciousness, we are still in the birthing pains of the new one!

a reply to: Willtell

Another member said something that resonated with me.

He/She said that if Bernie is elected, congress would love it because Bernie would bring in billions more in tax revenue.

Republicans want a socialist/totalitarian/authoritarian government as much as the democrat/socialist/progressives do.

a reply to: Willtell

Very Easy. The democratic voters can get exited over a Progressive candidate WHO PROMISES THINGS HE CANT DELIVER LIKE Obama did.

There is one major glaring problem with Obama's promises, he touted Transparency in government. He certainly didn't need congress to do that! Yet he is the only president that has a track record of cracking down on government whistleblowers.

In the annals of national security, the Obama administration will long be remembered for its unprecedented crackdown on whistleblowers. Since 2009, it has employed the World War I–era Espionage Act a record six times to prosecute government officials suspected of leaking classified information.

When it really comes down to it, can any candidate really promise anything? The majority of legislation has to go through congress. The two party system really prevents a lot of legislation from being passed. If one party doesn't have a clear majority, it usually ends in a stalemate and finger pointing.

Bernie has been stressing a public revolution for the public to take back their government. He will need the backing of the public to pressure government officials to back his legislation. When he talks revolution, I view it as protests standing in front of the Capital building, and people organizing and calling their government officials to pressure them to pass a particular piece of legislation.

He has shown an impressive public following. People like this guy! He addresses issues that affects the majority. He's sincere, respectable, considerate and honest. He has a solid track record. Many felt he was unelectable and so far he has proven them wrong. If he can finance his campaign just from public donations, and garner the kind of public support that he has, imagine the possibility of support he can rally if he's elected president.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

My point is not that Hillary can break the logjam.

My point is that Bernie may make it worst by the public electing not only a GOP president but MORE republicans in congress.

His election or running is a big gamble

a reply to: WeRpeons

IMO Obama was and is a fraud and disaster.

As for Bernie, the country in the general election may reject his ideas as too radical, there not new, and have been rejected before many times...

Bernie is only strong because Hillary is weak.

The republicans will hurl a powerful propaganda anti socialist campaign against him and scare the people, and it might work to elect more of a GOP congress and a republican president which would be a disaster.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Willtell

Another member said something that resonated with me.

He/She said that if Bernie is elected, congress would love it because Bernie would bring in billions more in tax revenue.

Republicans want a socialist/totalitarian/authoritarian government as much as the democrat/socialist/progressives do.

I don't believe that at all

Remember John Edwards’s folks.

He was as vocal as Bernie and just as anti- establishment and lost to Hillary and Obama in 2008...

Of course later he turned out having a girl friend so he would have been a disaster if he would have won.

The point is Bernie’s ideas are not new. They have been rejected many times, and I actually feel bad about that, but the point is he may be routed if he beats Hillary because the dems want too radical a candidate.

a reply to: Willtell

I don't know man. These arguments are sounding more and more desperate all the time.

But let's look at the options. If he's elected and can't do anything because the congress stops him at every turn then I'd say blame them and not Bernie.

If he's elected and has a Dem majority in congress as well, some of them will still try and stop him too but let's assume they let his policies through for now. Then we have two outcomes for that. One is that they work and one is that they don't work on their own merit. If they work, goody goody. If not then you'll be able to blame him for having bad policy ideas.

But at the moment it seems people are willing to take that risk that he's got some solid ideas and are willing to risk having him rather than Clinton or any of the Conservatives in his place. Basically, they are willing to give his ideas a shot because everyone else has sh*t for ideas or they're just the same ideas we've had that are killing us.

So there doesn't seem to be any leverage for using the fear of what might happen to sway them. The way things are the fear of what may happen is still better than what is happening or what will happen if someone else is in there. So it makes little difference. They are simply choosing their best possible shot at NOT being completely screwed over again and Sanders is it.

Will it work out, who knows. But we all know the other options won't work for sure so what else do you want them to do??? Everyone sees this 74 y/o grumpy socialist wild haired old man as a bit of a long shot, but it's past the two minute warning with no time outs left. So taking a hail marry pass to win the game is really the only play we have left anyway. If in the end it doesn't work out, well we were headed to that outcome anyway and at least we tried for the win while we had a chance. The only that will change that is if some other better option presents itself and if you look around what you see is what you get, so what else do you suggest?

a reply to: Willtell

Then you have more faith in the government than I do.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Willtell

Then you have more faith in the government than I do.

No I don’t necessarily have more faith in the government than you; I just know that they aren’t socialists.

A Jewish Socialist as leader of a world power. What could go wrong?

A socialist democrat likely won't be elected in America for some time.

Bernie is not the first radical socialist democrat.

In the past they’ve all lost big in elections.

I could ne wrong, maybe its time, I wish it were.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: enlightenedservant

My point is not that Hillary can break the logjam.

My point is that Bernie may make it worst by the public electing not only a GOP president but MORE republicans in congress.

His election or running is a big gamble

I think the opposite will happen though. Other than Trump, what Republican candidate's policies can most people name right now? The Republican candidates don't inspire anything positive from the center or left wing, specifically when they push the vitriolic crap like what they're doing right now.

However, Republicans gain at the State & local level precisely because the current DNC are idiots who won't contest a lot of local elections. And the DNC chooses to run a lot of center-right candidates instead of actual left wing candidates. It's because of this crap that left wing voters aren't encouraged to vote, not because the candidates are too left wing or too radical.

Just look at the overwhelming support Bernie's getting as an open socialist. The left wing has been ignored for so long by politicians like Hillary that we don't even care about them. We've been fighting for social change in spite of them, not alongside them. In 2014, they complained because we didn't show up at the ballot box. But they completely missed that Hispanic communities, African American communities, low wage workers & unions, and drug legalization groups had been both protesting and getting ballot initiatives at that exact time. But since our issues weren't priorities for the Democratic Party, there was no reason for us to vote for them. Or to put it another way, they simply didn't earn our votes. But running actual left wing candidates like Bernie will inspire us to participate, as we're seeing right now.

I also think a Hillary nomination as the Democratic candidate would encourage far more of an anti-Democratic backlash because conservatives have hated her for decades. The right wing has been saturated with anti-Clinton hate because of Bill's shenanigans, Benghazi, and far more. I see a lot of conservatives saying they don't even want to vote right now. But I'd almost bet that they would vote just to oppose Hillary (I don't gamble though lol).

a reply to: Willtell

Just to be fair, they said the same thing about a different demographic before and during the 2008 campaign. Then Senator Obama won the presidency & won reelection too.

It's not that Bernie will WIN...it's that the GOP is so fragmented, with out any platform or viable candidate whatsoever, except "were not obama" they will LOSE.

btw...I don't think that it's Bernie that will favor the elite....it's the Corporate worshiping Republicans that are the elite. "Trickle down economics" and all that BS.

a reply to: Willtell

Bernie is right, not to mention the stigma regarding socialism's historical failures that is so pervasively reiterated throughout American politics. The stigma is empirically justified. But I have this strange feeling that enough progressive ideology is being pushed through the social media, that indoctrination of the youth into far-left politics is inevitable.

Sadly, only a fire and Brimstone type of right-winger can out scream that mob. That's the last thing we need.

We almost need to give Bernie a shot to settle it once and for all, at least in order to prove the fails of that ideology. Sadly, it would be at great risk.

originally posted by: Willtell
Very Easy. The democratic voters can get exited over a Progressive candidate WHO PROMISES THINGS HE CANT DELIVER LIKE Obama did.

If Bernie Sanders gets the democratic nomination because Hillary’s sleaze catches up to her, Bernie will likely cause more damage to the people he wants to help than anything Hillary could have done.

And unless Bernie can win big in the general election and have coattails and elect a democratic congress and senate Bernie won't do a dam thing as president for progressive causes because the congress and elite wont let him do a dam thing, that’s if he got elected.

What he probably will do is allow for a GOP rout of the election by not only cementing the GOP hold over congress and senate but worst... elect a GOP president!

All for the fantasy of electing a progressive president like Bernie.

Bernie knows this is the case. In fact months ago he said it himself.

That if he got elected he alone couldn’t do a dam thing unless he had massive help from the public and congress.

In a general election a 74 year old Jewish socialist may get creamed in mainstream America and the Democratic Party may find itself ruined…

Imagine the millions of dollars in adds that will go against Bernie as they scare the American people with the fear of voting in a socialist!

www.huffingtonpost.com...

"A lot of Democrats up and down the line -- governors, U.S. senators, members of Congress -- have organically expressed worry about the prospect of sharing a ballot with Sen. Sanders. I think they have raised apt points," Fallon said. "Despite all of Sen. Sanders' ability to invoke general election polls, I don't think they tell the story at all in terms of what will actually be true in a general election context, if the hundreds of millions of dollars that the Republicans have on their side are all aimed in his direction."

It’s not fair, it’s not right but it’s the practical reality of American politics in 2016.

Indeed Bernie is a nice guy with great ideas but the practical political reality may hold that he may ruin his own voter’s interests by beating a weakened Hillary Clinton.

This is true. His good intentions are more dangerous than the worst of all the other candidates.

And they are most dangerous because hes too thick to see how destructive his ideas are. And people follow him like a cult leader. Its downright frightening.