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Bernie Sanders Supporters Can’t Describe Socialism

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posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 09:50 AM
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a reply to: Butterfinger

Men in my family bled and died to provide us all with equal opportunity and freedom. They did not die so someone could sit on their butt and steal from those who worked their fingers to the bone. That was what we created this country to stand in contrast of, and opposition to.

All that blood is being ## on now, and with their freedom they seek to enslave the children of those who died for their freedom. It is enough to make someone angry.

I think all those who want a socialist country should go find one, and not ### on the blood of our forefathers.


edit on 3-2-2016 by Kitana because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 09:59 AM
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originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Democracy is merely majority rule, I don't know why people attribute ideology to it. It has none.

Exactly.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 10:05 AM
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originally posted by: Kitana
a reply to: Butterfinger

Men in my family bled and died to provide us all with equal opportunity and freedom. They did not die so someone could sit on their butt and steal from those who worked their fingers to the bone. That was what we created this country to stand in contrast of, and opposition to.

All that blood is being ## on now, and with their freedom they seek to enslave the children of those who died for their freedom. It is enough to make someone angry.

I think all those who want a socialist country should go find one, and not ### on the blood of our forefathers.

I disagree. People in my family bled and died in Western wars as well. Though now we have enough knowledge to know they fought to protect capitalist central bankers throughout the Cold War and to put down indigenous revolutions by citizens who wanted to kick out their former imperial masters. And my grandfather & the other males in his generation were drafted to fight against Nazis, fascists, and their allies during WW2; even though they were still literal 2nd class citizens here. That's why they came back to America after the war & started fighting to improve the economic, social, and political situation for American minorities.

So I guess you & I are seeing 2 completely different visions of this country and what it stands for. Capitalism isn't in the Constitution, though "to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;" is in the Constitution.
edit on 3-2-2016 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 10:32 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

This country was founded on equal opportunity. Not absolute equality. Your children in this country have the same opportunities as do mine. You have the same opportunity as I do.

If I can work and scrape my way through college and with my intelligence get a good paying job, and go on in life to become a business owner and reap financial rewards of a lifetime of hard work, then I made the most of my opportunity.

If you sit down, and do nothing, and take from my earnings so you can have sustenance and/or college, you are not making anything of your opportunity - but rather, stealing from someone who worked hard to make the most of theirs.

If I give to my children, and they have a start in life that I worked hard to give them, and your children steal that from them, you are taking away their right to have what their parent worked to give them.

Equal opportunity means we all have the same right to make the most of what we can in this country. But it does not make us all equal, it does not mean that you have the right to steal from others who did work to provide for themselves or their families.

Socialism is not the model this country was founded on.

When my father worked in a coal mine all his life, ate soupbeans and cornbread in order to save for (some of) my college, it does not give anyone the right to take from me because my father was willing to eat soupbeans and cornbread and kill himself in a coal mine so that I might have better, and when I work my life to provide for my family, it gives no one the right to take from me or my family.

Equal opportunity is whatever you make of it, it is not everyone deserves the same no matter what they do.
edit on 3-2-2016 by Kitana because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: Kitana
a reply to: enlightenedservant
This country was founded on equal opportunity. Not absolute equality. Your children in this country have the same opportunities as do mine. You have the same opportunity as I do.

If I can work and scrape my way through college and with my intelligence get a good paying job, and go on in life to become a business owner and reap financial rewards of a lifetime of hard work, then I made the most of my opportunity.

If you sit down, and do nothing, and take from my earnings so you can have sustenance and/or college, you are not making anything of your opportunity - but rather, stealing from someone who worked hard to make the most of theirs.

If I give to my children, and they have a start in life that I worked hard to give them, and your children steal that from them, you are taking away their right to have what their parent worked to give them.

Equal opportunity means we all have the same right to make the most of what we can in this country. But it does not make us all equal, it does not mean that you have the right to steal from others who did work to provide for themselves or their families.

Socialism is not the model this country was founded on.

When my father worked in a coal mine all his life, ate soupbeans and cornbread in order to save for (some of) my college, it does not give anyone the right to take from me because my father was willing to eat soupbeans and cornbread and kill himself in a coal mine so that I might have better, and when I work my life to provide for my family, it gives no one the right to take from me or my family.

Equal opportunity is whatever you make of it, it is not everyone deserves the same no matter what they do.

No it wasn't. What history book did you read? My people didn't get equal opportunities in this country until the 1960s. We literally couldn't vote or run for office until the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. We literally couldn't serve on a jury or testify in court against a white person, and we couldn't even live in the same neighborhoods as white people. And it wasn't until the 1950s that well funded colleges and universities started allowing us to attend them (ever heard of HBCUs and the crappy funding & resources they get?).

How is that "equal opportunity"? You seem to think America has always been the way it is today; having literally known nothing of how America was before the cultural & social revolution that happened from the 1950s-1970s.

Edit to Add: Have you ever wondered why we still hear of the "First Black ___", the "First Woman ___", the "First LGBT ____", or the "First Hispanic ____" in this country? It's because the institutionalized racism in this country stopped people from ethnic & social minority groups from having those opportunities. This is literally the most tolerant time period in American history. American women weren't even guaranteed the right to vote until the 19th Amendment in 1920! How could the country have been created based on equal opportunity when half of the population had no legal say in things? And that doesn't even touch on Congressional policies like the "Indian Removal Act" and the "Chinese Exclusion Act".
edit on 3-2-2016 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:03 AM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
You don't have to be an economics major to like someone's proposed policies. Duh. How many Cruz or Trump supporters can explain supply side economics? I'm sure there are some, but it's obviously not a prerequisite for supporting a candidate.


Kinda makes you wonder about Democracy.

How can voters make the right choices unless they all know economics?

That doesn't even make sense. Going by that logic, only insiders with the highest security clearances and doctorate degrees in every academic field should be allowed to vote. Then again, your first sentence implies you question the merit of democracy anyway.


Quite frankly, one of the problems now is that everyone can vote no matter how ignorant they are of the issues. I don't believe anyone needs to have an economics degree, but I do believe voters should have to demonstrate some basic competency of the founding of the country and our political system.

We require immigrants to pass a basic civics test and I believe that test should be used in qualifying people to vote.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:10 AM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
You don't have to be an economics major to like someone's proposed policies. Duh. How many Cruz or Trump supporters can explain supply side economics? I'm sure there are some, but it's obviously not a prerequisite for supporting a candidate.


Kinda makes you wonder about Democracy.

How can voters make the right choices unless they all know economics?

That doesn't even make sense. Going by that logic, only insiders with the highest security clearances and doctorate degrees in every academic field should be allowed to vote. Then again, your first sentence implies you question the merit of democracy anyway.


Quite frankly, one of the problems now is that everyone can vote no matter how ignorant they are of the issues. I don't believe anyone needs to have an economics degree, but I do believe voters should have to demonstrate some basic competency of the founding of the country and our political system.

We require immigrants to pass a basic civics test and I believe that test should be used in qualifying people to vote.


Then your beef is with the inadequate curriculum in our public school systems. What's the point in having taxpayer funded schools that don't teach the soon-to-be citizens the basics of being a citizen? That should be the point in a public schooling system; to teach the next generation how to become responsible citizens & to teach them the rights, duties, responsibilities, and opportunities that come with being citizens of the city, country, State, and nation.
edit on 3-2-2016 by enlightenedservant because: clarified



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

You have the same OPPORTUNITY as I do today. I cannot change the fact of slavery... but we already had the civil rights movement, that is done, it is past. I am not responsible for the ignorance of others, but today, I have the very same opportunity as anyone else in this country, and stealing is wrong. Stealing is stealing, whether you want to call it socialism or theft, it is theft.

In a free market society you are rewarded based on intelligence and hard work. Most people who desire socialism do not think they have any value in the free market and no desire to do the hard work, they see themselves as too stupid and lazy to make it in this life for themselves so they desire to make it off the backs of those who are willing to think it through and do the hard work and make the sacrifices.

Try valuing yourselves a little bit, and be willing to put in the work it takes to make it, use the brains God gave you and you will succeed.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:14 AM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Krazysh0t


You mean like the War on Drugs?


Yes, just like that. So you agree with me?


I agree that the War on Drugs is a conservative policy and not a socialist one.


The War on Drugs is from conservative socialists. Only socialists use government to solve a problem.


So you admit that we've had Socialism within our country, and not only that but conservatives have been in support of it?
edit on 3-2-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:20 AM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
You don't have to be an economics major to like someone's proposed policies. Duh. How many Cruz or Trump supporters can explain supply side economics? I'm sure there are some, but it's obviously not a prerequisite for supporting a candidate.


Kinda makes you wonder about Democracy.

How can voters make the right choices unless they all know economics?

That doesn't even make sense. Going by that logic, only insiders with the highest security clearances and doctorate degrees in every academic field should be allowed to vote. Then again, your first sentence implies you question the merit of democracy anyway.


Quite frankly, one of the problems now is that everyone can vote no matter how ignorant they are of the issues. I don't believe anyone needs to have an economics degree, but I do believe voters should have to demonstrate some basic competency of the founding of the country and our political system.

We require immigrants to pass a basic civics test and I believe that test should be used in qualifying people to vote.


Then your beef is with the inadequate curriculum in our public school systems. What's the point in having taxpayer funded schools that don't teach the soon-to-be citizens the basics of being a citizen? That should be the point in a public schooling system; to teach the next generation how to become responsible citizens & to teach them the rights, duties, responsibilities, and opportunities that come with being citizens of the city, country, State, and nation.


I agree in principle. However, you cannot deny that our public school system has been a colossal failure and nothing more than a jobs program at this point for the teachers union. Public schools spend more time teaching about global warming and Timmy has Two Daddies than focusing on reading, writing, and math. They sure as hell aren't teaching a whit about the constitution, economics, or anything else useful.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:22 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

The U.S. has had Socialist policies since the 1930s.




posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:22 AM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
You don't have to be an economics major to like someone's proposed policies. Duh. How many Cruz or Trump supporters can explain supply side economics? I'm sure there are some, but it's obviously not a prerequisite for supporting a candidate.


Kinda makes you wonder about Democracy.

How can voters make the right choices unless they all know economics?

That doesn't even make sense. Going by that logic, only insiders with the highest security clearances and doctorate degrees in every academic field should be allowed to vote. Then again, your first sentence implies you question the merit of democracy anyway.


Quite frankly, one of the problems now is that everyone can vote no matter how ignorant they are of the issues. I don't believe anyone needs to have an economics degree, but I do believe voters should have to demonstrate some basic competency of the founding of the country and our political system.

We require immigrants to pass a basic civics test and I believe that test should be used in qualifying people to vote.


Then your beef is with the inadequate curriculum in our public school systems. What's the point in having taxpayer funded schools that don't teach the soon-to-be citizens the basics of being a citizen? That should be the point in a public schooling system; to teach the next generation how to become responsible citizens & to teach them the rights, duties, responsibilities, and opportunities that come with being citizens of the city, country, State, and nation.


I agree in principle. However, you cannot deny that our public school system has been a colossal failure and nothing more than a jobs program at this point for the teachers union. Public schools spend more time teaching about global warming and Timmy has Two Daddies than focusing on reading, writing, and math. They sure as hell aren't teaching a whit about the constitution, economics, or anything else useful.


Ten bucks says that you haven't looked at a school curriculum in decades. If you have kids, I doubt you know much about what your kid is learning either. That is unless you are willing to admit you are being massively hyperbolic here.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The U.S. has had Socialist policies since the 1930s.



I know, but it's nice to hear that from a conservative. Especially when they admit that conservatives used to be in support of Socialism.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: Esoterotica

but even self-proclaimed democratic socialist don't agree on what a democratic socialist is. People just like to throw words around and say it's better than the other ism.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
You don't have to be an economics major to like someone's proposed policies. Duh. How many Cruz or Trump supporters can explain supply side economics? I'm sure there are some, but it's obviously not a prerequisite for supporting a candidate.


Kinda makes you wonder about Democracy.

How can voters make the right choices unless they all know economics?

That doesn't even make sense. Going by that logic, only insiders with the highest security clearances and doctorate degrees in every academic field should be allowed to vote. Then again, your first sentence implies you question the merit of democracy anyway.


Quite frankly, one of the problems now is that everyone can vote no matter how ignorant they are of the issues. I don't believe anyone needs to have an economics degree, but I do believe voters should have to demonstrate some basic competency of the founding of the country and our political system.

We require immigrants to pass a basic civics test and I believe that test should be used in qualifying people to vote.


Then your beef is with the inadequate curriculum in our public school systems. What's the point in having taxpayer funded schools that don't teach the soon-to-be citizens the basics of being a citizen? That should be the point in a public schooling system; to teach the next generation how to become responsible citizens & to teach them the rights, duties, responsibilities, and opportunities that come with being citizens of the city, country, State, and nation.


I agree in principle. However, you cannot deny that our public school system has been a colossal failure and nothing more than a jobs program at this point for the teachers union. Public schools spend more time teaching about global warming and Timmy has Two Daddies than focusing on reading, writing, and math. They sure as hell aren't teaching a whit about the constitution, economics, or anything else useful.


Ten bucks says that you haven't looked at a school curriculum in decades. If you have kids, I doubt you know much about what your kid is learning either. That is unless you are willing to admit you are being massively hyperbolic here.


Pay up.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:26 AM
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a reply to: xuenchen

You can be for capitalism and for limited socialist programs. We need the military, we need infrastructure, we need free trade. Sometimes I think the liberal's mind is too simple to grasp conservatism.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:29 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Yep. That's all the proof I need. /sarc.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:30 AM
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originally posted by: menehune
a reply to: xuenchen

You can be for capitalism and for limited socialist programs. We need the military, we need infrastructure, we need free trade. Sometimes I think the liberal's mind is too simple to grasp conservatism.



You do realize that conservatism is less complicated than liberalism since conservatism is going back to simpler times? Though what do I know with my simple mind... *eyeroll*
edit on 3-2-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: menehune

The Hegelian Dialectic.




posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Not easy to "go back".

It's better when it never happens in the first place.





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