Pyramid at El Tigre

Watching the Times/Discovery channel today, I was surprised to learn of a pyramid, located in Guatemala, that is SIX times larger than the largest pyramid in Egypt! The base of the pyramid, is 1/2 mile on each side. I find this incredible, consdering that the Maya's had no metal tools, and used stone, to shape stone.
But my reason for this post, is the following. What happened? If the Mayans, had this advanced building technique, why has it not continued today? Was it because the Mayans, just vanished into the jungle? Where did the knowledge go? Surely some survivors passed it on to someone.
It just seems strange to me, that more than a thousand years ago, "simple natives" could outbuild most of the world? If the Mayans had not burned themselves ouyt of a place to live, would Central America today be one of the more powerful places in the world? Thoughts?

www.mostlymaya.com...

www.gonomad.com...

www.crystallotus.com...




[edit on 8-1-2005 by NetStorm]

We're not simple natives. Never were. We are very, very complex natives, whose name literally means 'The Lords of Time and Space'. Freaky, eh? As far as survivors go, we still live in the Americas. We grow corn and beans. The elders have the knowledge, passed down. We don't live in the old cities because our prophecies tell us not to. Remember the Organians from the old Star Trek? You can learn a little more about us here: Star Wars.

Originally posted by Chakotay
We're not simple natives. Never were. We are very, very complex natives, whose name literally means 'The Lords of Time and Space'. Freaky, eh? As far as survivors go, we still live in the Americas. We grow corn and beans. The elders have the knowledge, passed down. We don't live in the old cities because our prophecies tell us not to. Remember the Organians from the old Star Trek? You can learn a little more about us here: Star Wars.

Ok maybe I should have choosen my description better. (You did notice it was in quotes though right?) What I meant, compared to the habitants of Europe at the time, the "natives" were considered backwards, primitive, barbaric etc etc. (Though Columbus wouldn't reach the Americas for another 1000 years or so.) Europe was also in a war stage , but IMO did not have the technology that the Mayas already used without any metal tools to do so with. Correct? My question still stands, if the Mayas had not burned the forrest to make the pyramids, and had the famine not occurred, would their civilazation advance in such a way that they would have been a major world player, even when the Spanish came a plundering?
The curve was huge, then suddenly a total decline. Yes I am aware that the Spanish brought sickness to the new world, and helped decimate a lot of it, but had the Mayas, Aztec and Incas not vanish (the established kingdoms) would the be in power still today, and would they be more technologically advanced.

(BTW I too am a "simple native" Choctaw/Cherokee, so I meant no disrespect)





[edit on 9-1-2005 by NetStorm]

Originally posted by NetStorm
Ok maybe I should have choosen my description better. (You did notice it was in quotes though right?) What I meant, compared to the habitants of Europe at the time, the "natives" were considered backwards, primitive, barbaric etc etc. (Though Columbus wouldn't reach the Americas for another 1000 years or so.) Europe was also in a war stage , but IMO did not have the technology that the Mayas already used without any metal tools to do so with. Correct? My question still stands, if the Mayas had not burned the forrest to make the pyramids, and had the famine not occurred, would their civilazation advance in such a way that they would have been a major world player, even when the Spanish came a plundering?

Good question.

Probably not. Their culture was heavily involved with warfare, and their own people revolted several times. The classes were highly stratified and there was a huge gap betewen the "haves" and the "have nots."

This isn't as good for progress as a more fluid society with less rigid rules and more class mobility.

Metal wasn't easy to come by in those days and they hadn't gotten to the bronze age yet. Metals and ceramics are the two critical technologies for them, and while they had reasonable ceramics, they had no real metalworking beyond the ability to deal with gold and silver.

They also need non-hostile relations (trading) with other groups.

So I'd say that no, they weren't. They were too stuck in a rigid class and they weren't yet developing materials that would lead to plastics or metal.

Originally posted by Chakotay
We're not simple natives. Never were. We are very, very complex natives, whose name literally means 'The Lords of Time and Space'. Freaky, eh? As far as survivors go, we still live in the Americas. We grow corn and beans. The elders have the knowledge, passed down. We don't live in the old cities because our prophecies tell us not to. Remember the Organians from the old Star Trek? You can learn a little more about us here: Star Wars.

The empire grew to an astronomical scale that it had to be humbled by some supernatural force, namely the gods. For some reason the ancient American civilization came to a halt and the remaining inhabitants took the lesson to returned to nature. As you said , "because our prophecies tell us not to return to the old cities."

Here is where Plato says why Atlantis fell into disfavor by the gods:

"For many generations, as long as the divine nature lasted in them, they were obedient to the laws, and well-affectioned towards the god, whose seed they were; for they possessed true and in every way great spirits, uniting gentleness with wisdom in the various chances of life, and in their intercourse with one another. They despised everything but virtue, caring little for their present state of life, and thinking lightly of the possession of gold and other property, which only seemed a burden to them; neither were they intoxicated by luxury; nor did wealth deprive them of their self-control; but they were sober, and saw clearly that all these goods are increased by virtue and friendship with one another, whereas by too great regard and respect for them, they are lost and friendship with them. By such reflections and by the continuance in them of a divine nature, the qualities which we have described grew and increased among them; but when the divine portion began to fade away, and become deluted too often and too much with the mortal admixture, and the human race got the upper hand, they then, being unable to bear their fortune, behaved unseemly, and to him who had an eye to see grew visibly debased, for they were losing the fairest of their precious gifts; but to those who had no eye to see the true happiness, they appeared glorious and blessed at the very time when they were full of avarice and unrighteous power. Zeus, the god of gods, who rules according to law, and is able to see into such things, perceiving that an honourable race was in a woeful plight, and wanting to inflict punishment on them, that they might be chastened and improve, collected all the gods into their most holy habitation, which, being placed in the centre of the world, beholds all created things. And when he had called them together, he spake as follows....(the end of the Critas, the rest of the dialogue is lost)"

How can a great thriving civilization of millions reverse in their advancement of the Arts, Sciences and Architecture?