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After Living in Norway, America Feels Backward. Here’s Why.

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posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 02:56 PM
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originally posted by: 23432


Increasingly the Service & Manufacturing needs no Humans at large scale.

Arts , Sports , Culture are the areas the humans will be needed .

100 years from today people will look back and pity us work slaves .

USA will probably catch up at some point in next 20 years .


More like 50 years, & I think it's more likely we will end up eradicating ourselves. Technology might save us, but I doubt in my lifetime.




posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 03:35 PM
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I would prefer Trumps "damage and broken promises" to Sanders or Clinton, both of whom have a not so subtle hostility to the United States. Both have claimed they want to change America fundamentally, at least Trump wants to maintain what we have. Sanders want a to drown our children and grand children in debt because hes gonna be dead in 15 years and just doesn't care. Clinton has some sort of addiction to power. I can see it, she has a unique desperation, almost infatuation with the big chair.



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 03:54 PM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
You have no understanding of technology. At all. The purpose of technology is not to reduce hours of work done in a society. (side note: while you can accomplish more work in fewer hours you're operating under a fixed pie of work, technology creates new work)


Perhaps, perhaps not. I'll let my other posts on technology or even technical aspects speak for themselves, whatever they say (I've certainly made a lot of them so there's ample material to judge).

You speak of a variable rather than fixed pile of work, but that's not how it works. Technology creates greater efficiency which in turn allows you to produce the same volume of goods for fewer hours invested. When there is a market for more goods than is currently being provided work hours remain stable, prices go down, and everyone gets what they want. Productivity has risen so high though that that's no longer the model we operate under. Creating a self driving car does not add new jobs, instead it removes current jobs and makes everyones life easier.


It's really a simple concept. when you don't work and others do, others will have more than you! It even rhymes! It doesn't matter if it was a 1000 years ago or if it is 1000 years from now. Those who are capable and willing to work to provide goods or services desired by others will always be a step ahead of those who are not capable or willing. There is absolutely nothing you can do to change that.


Becoming wealthy is not about hard work, the majority of wealthy people don't work hard. They work smart, they do things that are simple yet highly productive, and then they take those proceeds, put them in various investment vehicles, and then leverage those investments for new investments. The latter part most often being managed by others for a fee unless the person has very good investing skills.

In society we push the myth of hard work pushing you to the upper class because society needs people to work, but the most successful people work very little and this is cross discipline.

There's a coffee shop I like, the owner retired off of it. She spent 2 years when it was starting up working there as a regular 9-5 job and then doing 2 hours of overhead work on top of that each night. After 2 years it was well enough established that she was able to turn day to day operations over to a manager, and just be the final say on things. She lives entirely off of the proceeds of that business. That's not hard work, she does virtually nothing now.

I could use myself as well, last year I was offered 65k/year in a low cost of living area (equal to roughly 100k in the average city) to work 30 hours/week to go work for a company (at the time I contemplated dropping out of school and taking it). This year another company actually sought me out and offered me 95k (later dropped to 75k when I said I was only interested in 25 hours/week) to come work for them after they saw an independent project I had made that they liked. I turned that one down too (though I'm keeping the option open for after I finish school) because I'm a big proponent of the idea that people should never sacrifice their future in order to meet their needs in the present and I would like to finish my schooling. Instead I'll remain a poor student for awhile longer. Not the examples for myself would make me wealthy, but they would leave me fairly well off.

For those who are truly wealthy you can see this same premise in action. They're wealthy because they pay other people to do the work for them. They find something that needs done, determine it's worth, pay someone less than the worth of that job, and pocket the difference. If you work for someone else you will probably never be wealthy because you will never be paid what your labor is worth. Working 9-5 for someone else guarantees you will never advance in life. Working x hours per week (preferably for yourself) and then devoting another y hours per week to education to further your capabilities will. The most influential people in history have been polymaths, which is a concept that has fallen off drastically in the past century as we have pushed further and further towards specialization. We need to encourage that approach more as a society as it brings about more creative answers to problems.


To further this line of thought: it makes sense why the left discourages work, because if some are willing to work, others will be envious of what those who worked have obtained. This could spur more people to work. Greed and envy propel advancement. If you don't want to work for the man, head up to alaska and homestead. you can get free land, build your own house with the things on that land, farm the land for food, etc... oh wait, that's work. Dang it all!


Well, I'm not leftist, I'm more of a centrist but I don't believe in living to work. I believe in working as part of personal fulfillment in life, it is honestly beyond my comprehension to work a 9-5 that I hate or even that's just a job, I've never done that and likely never will.

Doing a job is about accomplishing something so that you're contributing to society, and doing something you enjoy. Obviously I recognize that this isn't possible for everyone because someone has to work as a barista if we want coffee shops to exist... but that falls into my thoughts on the idea of a basic income and shrinking (not eliminating) wealth gaps.



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

*sigh* last two paragraphs on this were meant to be quoted... not my words, and past the edit timer. +1 for proofreading.



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 04:19 PM
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Question. (not sure if it's been asked or answered here)

What about retail type jobs in Norway? Do their shops close early? Do retail workers work short hours as well? If so, do they have extra shifts of people to cover these hours? Or do retail workers get the shaft while everyone else is out taking a hike?



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 05:22 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Dfairlite
You have no understanding of technology. At all. The purpose of technology is not to reduce hours of work done in a society. (side note: while you can accomplish more work in fewer hours you're operating under a fixed pie of work, technology creates new work)


Perhaps, perhaps not. I'll let my other posts on technology or even technical aspects speak for themselves, whatever they say (I've certainly made a lot of them so there's ample material to judge).

You speak of a variable rather than fixed pile of work, but that's not how it works. Technology creates greater efficiency which in turn allows you to produce the same volume of goods for fewer hours invested. When there is a market for more goods than is currently being provided work hours remain stable, prices go down, and everyone gets what they want. Productivity has risen so high though that that's no longer the model we operate under. Creating a self driving car does not add new jobs, instead it removes current jobs and makes everyones life easier.


It's really a simple concept. when you don't work and others do, others will have more than you! It even rhymes! It doesn't matter if it was a 1000 years ago or if it is 1000 years from now. Those who are capable and willing to work to provide goods or services desired by others will always be a step ahead of those who are not capable or willing. There is absolutely nothing you can do to change that.


Becoming wealthy is not about hard work, the majority of wealthy people don't work hard. They work smart, they do things that are simple yet highly productive, and then they take those proceeds, put them in various investment vehicles, and then leverage those investments for new investments. The latter part most often being managed by others for a fee unless the person has very good investing skills.

In society we push the myth of hard work pushing you to the upper class because society needs people to work, but the most successful people work very little and this is cross discipline.

There's a coffee shop I like, the owner retired off of it. She spent 2 years when it was starting up working there as a regular 9-5 job and then doing 2 hours of overhead work on top of that each night. After 2 years it was well enough established that she was able to turn day to day operations over to a manager, and just be the final say on things. She lives entirely off of the proceeds of that business. That's not hard work, she does virtually nothing now.

I could use myself as well, last year I was offered 65k/year in a low cost of living area (equal to roughly 100k in the average city) to work 30 hours/week to go work for a company (at the time I contemplated dropping out of school and taking it). This year another company actually sought me out and offered me 95k (later dropped to 75k when I said I was only interested in 25 hours/week) to come work for them after they saw an independent project I had made that they liked. I turned that one down too (though I'm keeping the option open for after I finish school) because I'm a big proponent of the idea that people should never sacrifice their future in order to meet their needs in the present and I would like to finish my schooling. Instead I'll remain a poor student for awhile longer. Not the examples for myself would make me wealthy, but they would leave me fairly well off.

For those who are truly wealthy you can see this same premise in action. They're wealthy because they pay other people to do the work for them. They find something that needs done, determine it's worth, pay someone less than the worth of that job, and pocket the difference. If you work for someone else you will probably never be wealthy because you will never be paid what your labor is worth. Working 9-5 for someone else guarantees you will never advance in life. Working x hours per week (preferably for yourself) and then devoting another y hours per week to education to further your capabilities will. The most influential people in history have been polymaths, which is a concept that has fallen off drastically in the past century as we have pushed further and further towards specialization. We need to encourage that approach more as a society as it brings about more creative answers to problems.


To further this line of thought: it makes sense why the left discourages work, because if some are willing to work, others will be envious of what those who worked have obtained. This could spur more people to work. Greed and envy propel advancement. If you don't want to work for the man, head up to alaska and homestead. you can get free land, build your own house with the things on that land, farm the land for food, etc... oh wait, that's work. Dang it all!


Well, I'm not leftist, I'm more of a centrist but I don't believe in living to work. I believe in working as part of personal fulfillment in life, it is honestly beyond my comprehension to work a 9-5 that I hate or even that's just a job, I've never done that and likely never will.

Doing a job is about accomplishing something so that you're contributing to society, and doing something you enjoy. Obviously I recognize that this isn't possible for everyone because someone has to work as a barista if we want coffee shops to exist... but that falls into my thoughts on the idea of a basic income and shrinking (not eliminating) wealth gaps.


Wow, so many false statements. Where to begin?
First, I never said working hard will make you rich. Although, every rich person I know works very hard, not in a laborous way, but it's still work. Mental work is far more taxing in many aspects than physical work.

Second, yes, there is a variable pile of work. For example; in the 19th century a large chunk of work was taking place on railroads. In the late 19th and early 20th century there was work building the transmission systems for electricity and installing power lines. Fastforward to the late 21st century and there was a lot of work around computing systems. Right now we are on the tail end of the networking era and the beginning of the robotics era. Slowly we have moved from physical labor to mental labor, which we are just barely in the beginning stages of. With each advancement our baseline standard of living has increased and will continue to do so as long as we keep advancing. But what you're advocating is that we stop advancing and "enjoy life as it is".

Hard work, intelligence, and proper networking will push you to the upper class. Yes, we tend to focus a lot on "hard work" being the key, but that's because it's the thing that everyone can control. Not everyone is born intelligent enough to be in the top 10%. Not everyone has the personality type to network effectively. But everyone can control how hard they try.

If opening and owning a coffee shop is so easy, then how come you haven't done it? Before you rebut, remember, saving can't make you wealthy, risk is worthless, and it's easy.

Whether 9-5 guarantees no advancement or not is quite debatable. You'd have to define advancement.

Most people are incapable of becoming a polymath. They lack the intelligence and desire to learn many different skills.

Are barista's not contributing to society and does no one enjoy being a barista?



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 06:22 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: onequestion

It IS rather obvious what your intent is...LOL.


Your response isn't needed. What my intent is pointing out that intent. Painting a picture of some idyllic 37 hour work week elsewhere...when it actually exists here, albeit, it had better be better paying or with far, FAR lower expectations as far
wealth and future options are concerned.


The grass always looks greener...the reality is usually different. Your 60 hour work week is a bed you made, not the U.S. or it's culture or lack thereof.


I could go on, but it's not necessary.


Pretty sad you already consider working for 7,5 hours per day as a bed made. That is really telling of how indocrinated some have become by working their ass off and being proud of it. It really is the only way to like the actual forced struggle it is for many in the US. It has become the actual American dream: Slave your ass off till youre old and be proud doing it. Well good for you if thats you, but many just have #ty lives because of that system. And the 37 hours is all optional; want to work more? There is still plenty of room for guys like you, just dont constrain others to working more hours just to survive.

See you think you've seen socialism under Obama, but really you havent. Understand that the Northern European countries have developed their systems for decades since the early 1900s, and are still since a country is never finished (so cherrypick all you want). Youre just at the beginning; if things dont seem fun; it is because you have done it the wrong way. Which is nothing to be ashamed of. Calling it off now, while you just set 1 babystep in the right direction is called quiting. You only get better when you make mistakes and learn from them. The dream has failed, time for a better future.

PS: With the right direction I dont even mean socialism, I mean a healthier and happier society with less extremes. Just so happens to be that it looks a bit like socialism from where youre standing. But forget that term and focuss on the healthier and happier part.
edit on 207pm2921000000p86 by whatsup86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 08:28 PM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
First, I never said working hard will make you rich. Although, every rich person I know works very hard, not in a laborous way, but it's still work. Mental work is far more taxing in many aspects than physical work.


Mental work pays better, but I was referring to the time spent working. The whole point of work is to have the money to enjoy your time off. If you have no time off to enjoy, what's the point?


Second, yes, there is a variable pile of work. For example; in the 19th century a large chunk of work was taking place on railroads. In the late 19th and early 20th century there was work building the transmission systems for electricity and installing power lines. Fastforward to the late 21st century and there was a lot of work around computing systems. Right now we are on the tail end of the networking era and the beginning of the robotics era.


The pile of work consists of how many hours are needed per person on average to meet the needs/wants of society. What you are referring to is the hours in a specific sector, but one sector can rise and another fall while the average still trends down. All technology has reduced the number of hours that society needs to spend working.

Lets take spreadsheets, back in 1900 maintaining their version of a spreadsheet required rooms upon rooms full of human calculators, now it takes a few button presses. Or look at food, a huge percentage of our labor force used to be based on agriculture to keep us fed, now it's a low percentage. In place of those farmers we started manufacturing random goods, but today we don't need to do that, since 1985 (when the statistic first started being tracked) productivity has tripled.

What a person used to produce in a 40 hour work week we now produce by lunchtime on Tuesday. We've simply hit the point where there is nothing else to produce, which means the work week should go down, it wouldn't be the first time either. In the last 100 years it has dropped 3 times though not in the last 60 years at all, we are very overdue.


Slowly we have moved from physical labor to mental labor, which we are just barely in the beginning stages of. With each advancement our baseline standard of living has increased and will continue to do so as long as we keep advancing. But what you're advocating is that we stop advancing and "enjoy life as it is".


No, I am not advocating that at all. Having more time for education and the ability to produce things you would enjoy rather than work 8 hours per day for someone else, usually copying rather than innovating would allow us to advance faster.


Hard work, intelligence, and proper networking will push you to the upper class. Yes, we tend to focus a lot on "hard work" being the key, but that's because it's the thing that everyone can control. Not everyone is born intelligent enough to be in the top 10%. Not everyone has the personality type to network effectively. But everyone can control how hard they try.


I don't believe that for an instant because most of the top 10% in this country are not in the top 10% in intelligence. The intelligent people are usually hired by less intelligent people to do the work for them. If you don't believe me, go tell me how many medications the CEO of a drug company has personally developed compared to how many his average employee has developed. Networking is definitely a factor, but that has nothing to do with intelligence either, in fact being highly intelligent usually detracts from networking, it's those who are average that do best in that area (which goes back to the first point).


If opening and owning a coffee shop is so easy, then how come you haven't done it? Before you rebut, remember, saving can't make you wealthy, risk is worthless, and it's easy.


I have no interest in doing so. The vast majority of people can do anything (or should be able to), but they cannot do everything. That means people should prioritize doing what is important to them.


Most people are incapable of becoming a polymath. They lack the intelligence and desire to learn many different skills.


It used to be extremely common, the reason we have fewer today is that our teaching methods have changed. We focus on specialization, which is good to an extent but our teaching institutions aren't really set up to allow for it either.


Are barista's not contributing to society and does no one enjoy being a barista?


They do, and I'm sure many do and there's nothing wrong with that. I've heard from a lot of Starbucks employees that they love the job but I'm using it as an example of a profession where you will never advance and you will never be paid a good wage.
edit on 2-2-2016 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: whatsup86

What you miss is the 37 hour work week
is an option here as well. Numerous jobs where one can select one's own working hours. No, it's not tradition here.


Look it suits you, I have no objection to it, at all. You see it a pride thing. Whatever. Truth be told, and it is a generality, I don't trust Europe or it's systems, politics in the slightest. I see a modernized feudal system where the serfs are better kept.


Where you see 'rights' I see enforcement. Your starting to get a taste of it from the EU in those southern countries that have a problem with refugees. The original DNA here was it's none of the gov'ts business how I live. Not hand-outs that always have rules and stipulations connected to them.


Or enforcing of my paying into them. Almost all immigrants to the U.S. had to work their cojones off to get ahead. To build equity, worth so their kids could have a better life than them. College, property comfortable retirement and yes wealth.


That work ethic was passed on, in most cases. In my day, one worked their butts off with the goal of retirement by 40. If you pulled that off, you had amassed enough to take no B.S. from anybody and live very, very well. An old 'saw' was work now, party later. That turned into party now and work later....or ask for handouts.


Most work hard here for goals. Something they want. Usually a considered improvement over their current lot. There is work here if one has the drive, the motivation, why else are there 11 plus million illegals here. They find work.


If I had sufficient motivation, I'd have 2 jobs pile up the reserves and pack it in early. That is our option and perhaps yours, as well. To say it's wrong is hubris on your part. There's one million immigrants a year-legal ones- that enter this country..STILL.


I'm glad your there. If the revenue you produce at the hours you put in is sufficient then great. I can say with some confidence what is sufficient for you isn't for many here.


Independence is, perhaps, the most valued of commodities here. That usually doesn't come with ease. That's the DNA and it isn't going away just yet....



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

Thanks for posting, great article. America does need to evolve a bit, and I'll bet those 37 hours are as productive as our 40-50 in general. 2 people in America struggling to get by making 40K have no time to enjoy anything but TV, much less rear children properly or make plans for retirement.



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 09:53 PM
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America has the second highest labor force working the most hours and the country is still he highest in debt.

I agree americans are ovee worked. Thats why we are always on edge. I hate to say it but the only way out is to become a small business owner and start a pyramid of workers under yourself. Such is the american way.

I quit my job last year and took a year off. I've been looking into self starting its the only way to truly reap what you sow.

I can work for someone else making 100k/year or I can start a business of my own and make millions doing the exact same thing.



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 10:12 PM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: nwtrucker

I should've known that someone was going to make a comment like that.

I work over 60 hours a week and I want the American workforce to experience better conditions.

I won't be responding to anymore posts of similar content and I will not be responding to you unless your addressing anything in the OP other than me.


How about you worry about you and do whats best for you and allow others to do the same. I'm quite pleased with my life in America (less so over the last 8 years compared with the previous 20) and don't need you trying to force me into some lifestyle you like. It seems there is already a country that has what you want, how about you head on over there and enjoy their bounties?



I logged in so I could quote this and give my opinion:

This is a stupid #ing post. Who's trying to force anyone into anything?


Whats wrong with better working conditions? As a developer myself, I know exactly what its like to burn the # out working 50+ hours a week. Its not fun, though some will never know what its like to be mentally fatigued.



Use it more.



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 10:50 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

i don't think it is the americans "work for the man".
i believe debt is the problem with americans.

most people fail to grasp the idea of running your life in a conservative fiscal way. people will charge televisions, laptops, tablets, and game consoles. people spend way too much on non-necessities like cable television and cell phone plans. at the end of the month they don't have much left, if anything in the bank. no way to save. then when a real crisis comes up like, car breaks down, roof leaks, water heater stops working, or refrigerator quits, they have no resources to do the repairs. the only solution at that time is to get more debt.

people work long hours because they have to. because of the financial mistakes they make.

live a tiny bit below your means and pay off your debts. being debt free is truly a liberating feeling.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 01:43 AM
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originally posted by: whatmakesyouright
Question. (not sure if it's been asked or answered here)

What about retail type jobs in Norway? Do their shops close early? Do retail workers work short hours as well? If so, do they have extra shifts of people to cover these hours? Or do retail workers get the shaft while everyone else is out taking a hike?


That's a good question- I cannot claim with confidence to speak for Norway, but I have seen that in many of the european countries there are similarities on this. The way it is in France (35 hour work week, minimum 5 weeks fully paid vacation...)
is that traditionally, stores are open less hours. By 7 PM all shops and stores are closed. Many are also closed between 12AM and 2 PM for lunch. Nothing is open on Sunday.

Restaurants are open in the evening, but they make up for that by closing inbetween meal times (closed mornings, and between 2 PM -7PM).


This is one of those things that often makes me assert my opinion that the same types of systems that work here would never work in the US! Consuming is our biggest traditional ritual- shopping on Sunday, picking up groceries at 10 PM.... I had a hard time with this at first!
I was confused when talk was going on about letting stores open on Sundays, and I was immediately blurting out that they should be able to... and everyone else around me reacted negatively.
Finally one day a nice woman took the time to tell me, "See, here? We value having time with our family- days we all get off at the same time so we can be together and strengthen the bonds of family and friends."
She had to tear it down that way, and I suddenly felt like an idiot.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 02:54 AM
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a reply to: onequestion

I know some people in construction who work in Norway.
As what he told me was that the Norwegians want to attract northern western countries to stimulate their economy.

The guy I know works with a dutch company and they are building cell concrete buildings and he plasters the whole thing.

Something Norwegians don't do. He told me most of the native construction workers earn 90 the hour and said that they have three productive hours on a eight hour working day.

They sure take time to sort things out if problems occur.
he also was very anoyed about their work tempo .

Now I understand why the government want hard working western countries to stimulate their economy.

He also said that most of their oil tankers are at the harbour since the compatitive oil crisis amongst oil producing companies are om going right now.

Well it's a good deal now if western countries who know how to build and stimulate the Norwegians economic future to act in this time and start earning a honest buck for their families.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 03:08 AM
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a reply to: 0bserver1

Construction is a dying industry. Within 20 years it's going to take no more than 6-7 people to make a buiding (especially houses).

1 person to create a 3d model of the building
1 engineer to make sure the construction is sound (this could be the same as the above person depending on how the industry evolves)
1 person to load the prefab pieces as the factory onto the self driving truck that goes to the construction site
1 person to unload and position the prefabs
1 person to connect the connectors between prefabs
2 people to connect to utilities (connecting to the water/sewer system being the big one)

At the factory you would have fractions of other service people doing things like installing pipes and wiring that can't be printed at proper quality, where one person can service multiple homes in a day.

I'm not sure what it takes these days between the construction crew and their support, but I'm pretty sure it's a good deal more than that. I'm also pretty sure it takes them far more time than the above will which goes back to what I said before. More product for fewer hours worked, and the bottleneck moves from production speed to how fast the product can be sold. Being that they're homes, it's not the sort of thing that generates a lot of regular repeat purchases.
edit on 3-2-2016 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 03:24 AM
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originally posted by: Tsubaki
Whats wrong with better working conditions? As a developer myself, I know exactly what its like to burn the # out working 50+ hours a week. Its not fun, though some will never know what its like to be mentally fatigued.


I have no problem with 50 or even 80 hour weeks at times. When crunch time comes it has to be done, it's just part of the job. I remember once, several years ago we had a product releasing in 72 hours and it was not ready. It needed another month.

So we had 72 hours to quick fix everything, stop all the bugs, and redesign major sections to remove features that we just weren't going to complete (this after a month of 12 hour days, 6 days a week). It got done, none of us were allowed to sleep, one guy had it even worse as he couldn't go home to get some medication he needed so his symptioms were coming back and bothering him. Once it was over we all curled up under our desks and passed out, no one even had the energy to drive home.

It was somewhere around that moment where I realized that it's a waste of time working for companies that will do that to entire teams of people as a routine way to make a few extra bucks and instead came to the conclusion that having a good work/life balance (even if it's at the cost of some salary) is worth a lot, as it frees you up to focus more on self improvement and enjoying the world, and ultimately you'll be in a better spot for the effort. That such a thing fits in my world view that we need to fix the unemployment problem by lowering the work week is a happy coincidence.



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 03:34 AM
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a reply to: Aazadan

That may be true, but the prices of those prefab houses are really high and in some cases more expensive then the tratidional builded houses.

The industry who makes als calculate their machinery that builds those houses and some old tratitional crafted houses are not always easy and comparable to build.

You have to know that every country has their own culture and also houses are one of the major requirements that natives of these countries demands.

I know allot of construction , because I'm construction worker myself.

Anyway its not on how fast buildings can be build and how many people are needed to build such a house .

It's more about craftsmanship and practical fast solutions that stagger economies I think.

And also to pass up an economy so that you can create more jobs out of that . Something many countries prefer.

Look at Greece 70% are government employees and the other half , well they "work" in the private sector , but know they have to living of wages way below the minimum .

Not only because of their government employees, but also because they don't know how to be fast educated productive Workmen and a good managing system to do it that way..

Most of the time it lacks a good manneging and educated personel system to build fast and good infrastructure that works now and in the future to create jobs and keeping a country healthy I think

Something I know from where I come from is needed to build efficiently and durable for the next generation to come..


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posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 04:48 AM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: whatsup86

What you miss is the 37 hour work week
is an option here as well. Numerous jobs where one can select one's own working hours. No, it's not tradition here.



No I am not; Youre missing that for many the 37 hours in America is not an option at all: the avarage working hours are so high because people have to to make things work, not because they take pride in it or want to. And it only became your way of living because people have to. Want to work more because you got a nice job or like working? After Sanders you still can.


originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: whatsup86

Look it suits you, I have no objection to it, at all. You see it a pride thing. Whatever. Truth be told, and it is a generality, I don't trust Europe or it's systems, politics in the slightest. I see a modernized feudal system where the serfs are better kept.


You hear the word socialism, you hear Europe and you think Sanders wants to copy everything... Wrong again:

"Sanders tried to clarify his identity as a Democratic socialist. He said he’s not the kind of Socialist (with a capital S) who favors state ownership of anything like the means of production. The Norwegian government, on the other hand, owns the means of producing..."

And there are tons and tons more reasons not to trust your own country and system instead of Europeans.... Tons. Basically everything bad and the worst extremes are founded or find support in America. GMOs, trade agreements, Lobby culture, police violence, bad healthcare, inequality. I can go on and on what is worse so how can you distrust Europe while living in the US? That is backward thinking come on.. You once were considered ahead as a society, now youre way behind; statistics of all kinds show you do. And its all the systems fault and the people that almost religiously follow it, with you as a nice example.

And you still focuss on us and socialism too much. Healthy and happier remember?


originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: whatsup86

Where you see 'rights' I see enforcement. Your starting to get a taste of it from the EU in those southern countries that have a problem with refugees. The original DNA here was it's none of the gov'ts business how I live. Not hand-outs that always have rules and stipulations connected to them.



When I read hand-outs or free stuff I cant take you seriously. The biggest businesses in your country are getting hand outs if they fail..I dont hear you say anything about that. And we pay a lot more tax, consciously to make up for the services our society provides, so you paying less basically makes it an inverted hand out...Yea think about it. Instead of a service the US government allows you to get more money. Not the other way around.

And these are not people that are lazy like all of you think. These are people that are looking for work (have to prove they are looking by showing their applications every month), these are retired people that cant work anymore, these are mentally ill that you dont want in the streets (which happens in the US), these are chronically ill people that need it to survive and be somewhat independent, these are the disabled. These are the people you call lazy for receiving "handouts". If you think that you really have a lack of empathy for human beings.

And again youre thinking Sanders will go this way... Stop that. He will expand on what you already have or improve those services. But he will fight against big money and the corruption. That should be reason enough to vote on him, you know noone else will.

edit on 305am2918000000p86 by whatsup86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 04:56 AM
link   

originally posted by: whatmakesyouright
Question. (not sure if it's been asked or answered here)

What about retail type jobs in Norway? Do their shops close early? Do retail workers work short hours as well? If so, do they have extra shifts of people to cover these hours? Or do retail workers get the shaft while everyone else is out taking a hike?


It all depends what retail we are talking about. Food retail is usually open for 10-15 hours a day. While specialized retails such as hardware and electric is open for about 7-10 hours a day.
The retails that have long opening hours has two shifts.

Hope that helps answer you questions. Please feel free to ask if you are wondering about more.




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