Can anyone give me a real reason Bernie is bad for America?

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

If you believe that Bernie is the 'answer' throw out ANY of his policy ideas and let's examine it.

Here's one:

a fraction of a percent in tax imposed on Wall Street speculative transactions.

Ooo! Another one!:

break up the big banks.

Oh, and one more!!:
reform campaign finance by overturning "Citizens United."


Your turn: GO!

I'll bite.

Actually, in 1985, Sanders partnered with developers to champion a seven-story hotel and 300 mostly upscale condominiums on the land we were standing on. The city was to get a cut of the profits through a tax increment financing (TIF) district. Fortunately, activists mobilized an opposition to this giveaway of public land to the wealthy, and the plan was defeated in a citywide referendum. That's why there was a beautiful park to serve as the backdrop for Sanders to launch his campaign. This story is emblematic of Sanders' political history. While he says many good things that socialists support and that attract support from workers, students and the left, his actual political practice is at odds with his image. Setting aside his self-identification as a "socialist," even his claim to be "independent" is dubious once you know about Sanders' accommodations with business and the wealthy and his ongoing collaboration with the Democratic Party.

oilempire.us...

This is the crux of the issue, his policies will target the corporations. That's a good thing, except for the fact that financial burden is transferred towards the consumer. His idealist vision, which mirrors small nation-states, is not applicable to a nation of over 300 million, which sports a variety of cultures. If his socialist policies are too pronounced, half the nation will rebel.

Now let's point out the standard of living Europeans enjoy. Plain and simple, it is unsustainable. The European debt crisis is ongoing. Let's take a look at these Utopian nations you wish for the US to emulate.

Third of UK population 'fell below the poverty line'

Compare to the US, Which is About 15%

Let's not forget, that the UK has far less in terms of population. The US has a much higher gun violence rate then the UK, but the UK has more than double the overall crime rate than the US; including murders, assault, robbery, theft, drug abuse, rape, etc. Source

Now, let us continue.

You are insinuating that the US falls under a capitalist system. No, capitalism has come and gone, we have evolved from that point a long time ago. According to Marx, socialism is the next step in the evolution of economic/political systems, which Socialism is state ownership of the means of production. You see, Communism is the end result under this theory, which would be the non-existence of a state, with everyone equally working towards the common good of their own accord.

However, that is not reality. Our capitalist system has evolved according to the laws of nature, our system is now a corporatist state. You see, under democrat and republican leadership, we have had corporate bailouts and protectionism, 'too big to fail', that is not capitalism or socialism. If we are to split hairs, we are socialist in the aspect that the common man takes the brunt of the financial burden when megacorporations make mistakes, we are capitalist in the sense that only the very few make financial gains at the expense of everyone else.

We have become too entrenched in this type of system, unless you are prepared to localize resources, growing your own food etc, you will be a slave to the system that has been created, and will suffer dearly with a candidate who believes punishing those 1 percenters will make everything better.

He is an idealist, and has not even begun to consider the implications to the actions being proposed.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Yes. Very different.

We reward elite bloodlines with our money and labor.
We allow our government to far-over-reach - A government funded by the billionaires.
We allow chemicals in our food and water that other countries ban because of the known dangers of them.

There's A LOT good about the 99% of this nation.
and a LOT bad about the 1% of this nation.

The 1% are ruling. Not the 99. This is very central, and very much needs to change.

1) Define "The 1%"

2) Allow chemicals in our food and water? Like the mayor and city council members, hired POLITICIANS, in FLINT?

a reply to: GodEmperor

Thank you

a reply to: deadlyhope

I can't show you any 'proof'. I really doubt that anyone can.

My own personal opinion is:

1) I think the U.S. should take absolute care of its own citizens before any other.
2) I think B. Sanders is a good man with good ideals that lack the ability to pay for them.
3) I think it's a damn shame that the current economic situation doesn't allow for socialized medicine, because that should be a basic RIGHT of all Americans.
4) I feel for those who are in the U.S. that are not there legally. I don't, however think that the whole of the U.S. taxpayers should have to pay for them.
5) I wish the world was a kinder place.
6) I don't believe that the producers of sellable product should have to agree to a set price of their goods. I believe that if a person or corporation produces goods, people have the right to purchase the product or not. What I don't agree with is the government setting a price for those goods. See Atlas Shrugged
7. I don't believe there is a single country in existance today that is fully 'Socialist' that is sucessful for the people. Certainly there are several countries where socialized medicine is successful, and I believe that should be promoted for the U.S.
8. Senator Sanders indicates that the rich should 'pay their fair share', implying that they skate without doing so. I believe that the rich probably pay the lion's share of taxes in the U.S. Now, whether that income is properly utilized is another issue.
9. Aside: Senator Sanders indicates that education through college should be a right and not a priviledge, and I completely agree. Again, I don't know how this is funded, but I think it is completely valid and necessary.
10. I don't believe that a $15 minimum wage would benefit the overall economy of the U.S. Is it pretty to think about? Sure! Certainly! The entire economic system -- particularly where produce is concerned -- is flawed. Can Americans survive and afford $20/gallon milk? Well, of course that's a figure I plucked out of thin air to demonstrate a point.
11. Senator Sanders leans heavily upon the 'Utopian argument." "Do we want better wages???" YEAH!!!! "Do we want better health care??" YEAH!!!! The crowd roars. Pragmatic people -- who aren't popular much in today's political climate -- ask the simple question........ ' who's going to pay for it??'
12. Restating a point, and this is purely my own personal opinion. I don't believe that pure Socialism works for the PEOPLE in any country existing today.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Yes. Very different.

We reward elite bloodlines with our money and labor.
We allow our government to far-over-reach - A government funded by the billionaires.
We allow chemicals in our food and water that other countries ban because of the known dangers of them.

There's A LOT good about the 99% of this nation.
and a LOT bad about the 1% of this nation.

The 1% are ruling. Not the 99. This is very central, and very much needs to change.

I think one of the most widely held misconceptions about how to fix this problem is the misconception that a simple decree creates the substance necessary as the foundation to even begin fixing the problem we experience.

(I hate to talk left and right in politics) but much like the left's "Ban Everything" dogma. Unfortunately many Bernie Sanders supporters (even if he is a better option than any current Republican and Clinton) think the same way that if one could fill in a bubble to vote against something, it automatically fixes the problem.

Many republicans too, with immigration and "wiping regions off the map"

Binary thinking in the worst sense of the term.

Hopefully Bernie is smarter than many of his constituents while we know for a fact that Trumps constituents are vastly dumber than he is, and that's pretty scary.

originally posted by: Necrose
you all acutally believe that this hasn't been decided yet? guys.....

it's all a charade, so you can grab a popcorn, sit tight and watch, no need to be hyped and anxious so much!

It is a popular conspiracy theory that it has 'all been decided'. There is no proof that it has 'all been decided' no matter how much we may think it looks like that.

Of who we think TPTB are...who among them picked Obama for 2 terms???

Bernie is an economic illiterate.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

If you believe that Bernie is the 'answer' throw out ANY of his policy ideas and let's examine it.

Here's one:

a fraction of a percent in tax imposed on Wall Street speculative transactions.

Ooo! Another one!:

break up the big banks.

Oh, and one more!!:
reform campaign finance by overturning "Citizens United."


Your turn: GO!

So you have an inability to argue ONE point at a time and want to throw spaghetti at the walls to see what sticks, have me respond, and then you hand wave into oblivion while using EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!

1) A retraction of the markets, investor panic, investor and stockholder contraction.

Utopian Socialists like you forget that taxing 1 cent on TRILLIONS in transactions is a LOT of money.
Penny stocks go BUST on mere decimal points. But I bet Bernie's Utopian idea doesn't allow you to actually CONSIDER economics and markets which deal in DECIMAL points.

sigh

a reply to: GodEmperor

I am not in a position to give as well a thought-out reply. Bravo, though, for being civil in your opposing comments, you're not ranting or just using cyclical arguments that are stale - You've explained yourself in far more depth.

That being said, I have not, and will not say Bernie Sanders is perfect. I will not say his ideas are 100% amazing, no one's ever will be or could be - This is why we have 4 year terms - New presidents for new times.

BUT.

To me, the BIGGEST problems in our nation include.

Too much money in politics.
Banks that are too big to fail - Banks that screw the people over.
Corporations dodging, evading, hiding - Whatever - Their fair share.
Corporations owning the political process, and laws being made to favor money, not the people.

Bernie wants to go against these - Will he succeed? That depends on how much support he has. He has mine. I want these problems to be changed, his socialist ideas have been proven in other countries, but the biggest reasons I am pro Bernie are the reasons above.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Hey, just in general - sorry for saying "little brother". It was rude and demeaning.

You are right; you're not my little brother. But you kinda remind me of him. Of both of them, actually.
Anyway.....
Sorry about that.
And I'm glad you changed your avatar.....

have a good night.
Don't forget to breathe.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Bernie is an economic illiterate.

That is absolutely false. Show us how he is, with examples.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Oh - you only wanted ONE?

Okay, let's go with the first one.....

"a fraction of a percent in tax imposed on Wall Street speculative transactions."

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

The top 1% of people with the most money are ruling.

Look up.. Flouride.
Bromulated Vegetable Oil.
HFCS.
GMO's in other countries.
Alternative cancer CURES in other countries.
FDA on cannabis/medical marijuana.
Hormones, drugs, vaccines etc in animals..
Side effects of drugs... etc.

The list goes on and on - Other countries do studies on how bad something is, America ignores it ( bribery or stupidity, you tell me. ) and the average person pays the price.

a reply to: deadlyhope

I'll comment further tomorrow, but I'll leave with this for now.

The extent of corruption in Europe is "breathtaking" and it costs the EU economy at least 120bn euros (£99bn) annually, the European Commission says.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: ketsuko
Bernie is an economic illiterate.

That is absolutely false. Show us how he is, with examples.

I'll bite.

Proposal of higher tax rates across the board, which is a CONTRACTUAL financial policy, while the nation has a problem creative jobs, starting businesses, paying off personal debt, already stretched personal savings, already LOWEST labor participation rates, market nervousness after QE and Yellen's Fed Rate hikes and proposals, Obamacare effect going into 2016-2017 which have not even fully HIT yet.

Just to name a FEW pieces of the economic puzzle that would actually REPEL against a contractual "bottom up" Social based economic system

In other words how the F$$&%*#& is Bernie going to pull that off without tanking us first?

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: ketsuko
Bernie is an economic illiterate.

That is absolutely false. Show us how he is, with examples.

The idea that you can tax at 90% and keep that tax base in the country. I have heard Bernie supporters say he will somehow force those tax payers to stay in the country, but you can only pull that trick once at most before those sources dry up and you are then left high and dry for your revenue stream.

At that point, where does Bernie get his magic money for all his free stuff?

a reply to: reldra

I know it's easier for people to believe that they can actually change things, that they are in power. But really, after all we've been through, after all these years... you gotta see it. It's an illusion. I am fine with it I mean, I got used to it and I gave up trying to convince people anymore (I mean people in my life), but when I come to ATS, I expect a bit of foresight and know-how.
You guys here should be more illusion-proof and propaganda-savvy than the rest of the plebs I see shopping groceries at Tesco's, if you know what I mean.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

The top 1% of people with the most money are ruling.

Look up.. Flouride.
Bromulated Vegetable Oil.
HFCS.
GMO's in other countries.
Alternative cancer CURES in other countries.
FDA on cannabis/medical marijuana.
Hormones, drugs, vaccines etc in animals..
Side effects of drugs... etc.

The list goes on and on - Other countries do studies on how bad something is, America ignores it ( bribery or stupidity, you tell me. ) and the average person pays the price.

Because America has become a largely STUPID society under very LIBERAL policies and liberal "Education" baby sitting centers

And the fact we have a Twitter/Facebook society based on being 'cool' instead of informed, we don't have a general populace that CARES. Thanks again Liberalism/Cultural Marxism...this is FUN!

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: ketsuko
Bernie is an economic illiterate.

That is absolutely false. Show us how he is, with examples.

I'll bite.

Proposal of higher tax rates across the board, which is a CONTRACTUAL financial policy, while the nation has a problem creative jobs, starting businesses, paying off personal debt, already stretched personal savings, already LOWEST labor participation rates, market nervousness after QE and Yellen's Fed Rate hikes and proposals, Obamacare effect going into 2016-2017 which have not even fully HIT yet.

Just to name a FEW pieces of the economic puzzle that would actually REPEL against a contractual "bottom up" Social based economic system

In other words how the F$$&%*#& is Bernie going to pull that off without tanking us first?

Usually the current scheme of things is to incentivize the wealthy to loan the government money to fund these projects through interest granting treasury bonds. And TBH that just exacerbates the problem as it keeps the wealthy riding the inflation bubble.