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Can anyone give me a real reason Bernie is bad for America?

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posted on Feb, 6 2016 @ 03:43 AM
a reply to: deadlyhope

ok, so if you very strongly disput that someone can have a good idea and make money off of it, then how do you explain Facebook and mark zuckerburg? or mark cuban who is self-made billionaire? or the creators of Lyft and Uber? All these things were once just an idea, which was born out of necessity. That's how the free-market capitalism is designed to work. And, yes, some wealthy people inherit their fortune. But let me ask you a question: if you were the inheritant of your family's fortune would you turn it down? Exactly.

posted on Feb, 6 2016 @ 12:48 PM
a reply to: deadlyhope are driven by envy. A good idea is not always sufficient. It must be something people want and will pay for. For every success there are a hundred failures. You want the government to be the big safety net for you. That is not nor was it ever its purpose.

And then there is all the free stuff you Sanders supporters are so looking forward to. Nothing is free. Nothing of value anyway. You think a free education is the answer for the high cost of a college education? Wait until it becomes free. Then you will see the actual cost go through the roof. Why? Because you are inserting the government into the equation and when has that ever worked? If students don't pay tuition who will pay the bills for the universities? Oh yeah, the rich. Who will regulate the costs? Right now the free market is still in play. It is possible for a university to price itself out of business. If you take the market pressures off who will be the decision maker on how much money a university should earn? The government? Good idea. Once they take their cut for administering the public universities you can safely add another 30% at least to the actual cost. But you won't care because the rich people will pay for it. How will that happen? Once they get the bill they will pass it on to their customers, move their business out of the country, and cease to exist in the eyes of the government. Any tax attorney worth his salt can make that happen. As I said in a previous post there are other ways to cut the cost to public education. Serious students find a way to go to school including scholarships. I went with the assistance of the GI bill. I found a way.

People who don't want to work for their prosperity weaken our economy. It is nice and convenient to fall for a politician who promises the world to get elected but Sanders, should some quirk of fate occurs and he gets elected, will not be able to do any of these freebies he is promising. Why? It is called Checks and Balances. Congress will not allow it. You people call yourselves progressives. Going to socialism is not progressive. It is a step backward because it will set our economy and our country back decades. Go visit Latvia or Lithuania. Talk to those people about what life was like when their government took control of everything in their lives. Your idea that some people inherit their wealth so therefore it isn't fair. There was no guarantee of fairness in the constitution. The Pursuit of Happiness does not guarantee happiness. People in Lithuania, the first country to break away from the Soviet Union wanted capitalism so bad they endured a full year with no infrastructure such as heat, electricity, food, to get away from Gorbachev and his hoods in the Politburo. But they did the hard work, made the sacrifices, and built an economy and this all started in 1991. Anyone who is for more government control in their lives will never experience prosperity. Envy is not an enviable trait.

posted on Feb, 6 2016 @ 09:58 PM
a reply to: icewater

Driven by Envy of what?

What is my specific motive to desire Bernie Sanders for president?

I'm in good health. Have not been to a doctor for many years, do not see myself going for many years. His healthcare is not alluring to me as applied to me. ( Dodging that dumb piece a garbage obamacare fine wouldn't be a bad thing, though. )

I do not plan to attend any college. His free college ideas are not things I desire.

On the argument of business moving over seas?

I'd definitely encourage legislation to NOT affiliate with businesses that do not give their workers a reasonable wage. We used to have such trade laws, it's not a fantasy, it's not crazy - USA has the most purchasing power IN THE WORLD. We are not ones that are going to crumble super easily when a businessman has a bad day.

I don't live in

posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 11:05 AM
Oh I get it now. So Bernie is going to close the big nasty evil banks, and that is somehow going to make everything awesome. What exactly are the banks doing that are causing you such irreparable harm again? Can anybody articulate this for me? I am really trying to grasp the mentality that Sanders supporters have, it makes no sense to me. All I see and hear are things like this, "he is an outsider", "he is against the big banks" "he will make healthcare affordable". I thought the ACA did that for us? Seriously people, is that all it takes to get your vote? A few empty promises, with no hope of coming to fruition. But hey, it sounds great so let's just say $#^% it, whats the worst that could happen right? These are political tactics that have been used for a hundred years, how people can be duped like this astounds, and in the age of the internet!

posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 03:12 PM
a reply to: deadlyhope

Well it depends on what you're looking for. It is largely an ideological difference. Many contend that without America the Scandinavian countires' models wouldn't work. They ride the coat tails of advancement which is enabled by america.

For example, they have better infant mortality rates but a lot of that has to do with the fact that they get to use technology pioneered and created in America. So with no america to leech tech from, where are their mortality rates?

The best analogy for this argument that I've heard is that a man goes car shopping. He wants the latest and greatest: BT connectivity, wifi, all of the bells and whistles. The salesman shows him the price and he cannot afford that, so he has them remove the engine to get the price within his range. This car doesn't go anywhere but it sure is fun to sit in and play with. That's the Scandinavian countries without America. That's what bernie sanders as president means (well, symbolically).

Another argument is that things aren't all that peachy in scandanavian countries. Their taxes are high, their healthcare is not improving as quickly as the United states healthcare is improving (i.e. we have been closing the gap in healthcare outcomes). So by emulating them he would be damaging the US.

I've argued against bernies policies for years, if you have more specifics let me know.

As for another candidate, it doesn't matter. They're the president not the king. Bernie isn't getting higher taxes or government healthcare, even if elected. He can't forgive students their debts, he can't pay off your mortgage or car. He's a figure head. What you can expect from a bernie presidency is a lot of vetoes (ie, party of no) as long as it's a republican controlled legislature, and it will remain that way as long as bernie is president (you think reps were motivated against obama, wait until a real socialist is in the whitehouse).

The Scandinavian countries are all monarchy's are we really of the belief that a monarchy is better than a Republic? If so, we have really lost our way.
edit on 7-2-2016 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-2-2016 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 7 2016 @ 05:49 PM
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

His ideas would be dangerous because his very INAUGURATION could cause a contractual mood in the markets.

Yes just like when the last Marxist took office and somehow the evil Capitalists managed to rebuild the market... or prop it up some how depending upon one's view... and in spite of all the Occupy Wall Street baloney which was really just a bunch of people who believe in Marxism and want their student loans written off and people who buy into the idea that a financial transaction fee would actually stop the onward march of the ruination of our economy and financial structures. It would just cut out the little guy and leave the big players. Funny how that group of protesters had all this socialist nonsense as their list of demands including that little transaction tax.....I bet it came right smack out of the Soros camp.
edit on 7-2-2016 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 01:22 AM
First, let's look at Bernie Sanders the man.

The guy didn't have a steady paycheck until he was voted into public office at age 40. In 22 years of adult life, he couldn't hold down a steady job. He had problems keeping his utilities turned on and depended on others to eat. Citation Politico

It's no wonder he's so obsessed with providing free things to everyone - he lived a life where free stuff would have given him a better life. Earning his way wasn't something he could be proud of, because he wasn't good enough at anything to make his way doing it. It's likely that he was on public assistance before being elected to public office and I submit that being a public servant is another form of public assistance, albeit - with a requirement that you actually do stuff.

As far as how his policies would be bad? That's easy. I think Benjamin Franklin said it best: “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

Of course, a true liberal won't accept the logic of the founding fathers - or "terrorists" as the new school books call them.

Let's look at a few of Bernies statements, shall we?

Recently, he stated "I will raise taxes on everybody". The problem with that is when the taxed decide that it's too much work to support government programs that they give up and join the welfare class, the whole house of cards falls down.

My current tax bracket is 25%. According to his own released information, my new tax bracket under the Sanders plan would be 30.2 and adds 2 more tax brackets. You may think that's OK, but there are higher tax bracket expenses you may not be aware of. That's nearly 1/3rd of my income that goes toward federal programs that I'm excluded from because of my income. Here's the link. Read it yourself.

"You don't need welfare" you might say and I'll agree with you. Do my children deserve the benefit of Pre-K education like everyone else? The Department of Education has restrictions on who can attend the Pre-K Head Start program, and the barrier to entry is that your income must be low enough to qualify for free lunches or be on some other public assistance. So, on top of paying 25% income tax - I also had to pay thousands for a private school Pre-K program for my son, so he would have the same benefit of education as my tax dollars provide to the kids who qualify for the DOE program.

Moving along...

He recently made comments about the number of deodorant choices that people in America have when children are going hungry... I'm not sure what he smoked that day - but I'm pretty sure that those two points have zero correlation. And he says stupid # like that all the time! People already pay taxes which are given to welfare recipients to feed themselves. If children are still hungry, it's because their parents aren't feeding them with their welfare checks.

"Show me SOMETHING that proves emulating countries with higher standards of living is a bad thing for America" ... This is going to be fun.

OK, let's first look at the faults in your statement - I'd like to know which "higher standards" countries you're talking about, because that would make it easier to customize the punchline for this joke you've told.

Sanders wants higher corporate tax rates, and you probably believe that other "higher standard" countries do this, but they don't. The United States Has the Third Highest Corporate Tax Rate among 173 Nations. The UAE and Chad have higher rates, and I'd venture to say that they're not holding to higher standards than the USA.

Sanders wants a $15/hr minimum wage. Several US cities have adopted a $15 minimum wage and it's been devastating to the workforce. There are many reports of companies cutting shifts in order to accommodate the higher wages. Other reports show that some employees are cutting their availability in order to keep their income low enough to qualify for the public assistance they've become dependent on. Yet other companies are replacing workers with machines, because it's less expensive. So a higher minimum wage has resulted in more unemployment.

Sanders wants to expand labor unions. The reasons to limit the reach of labor unions have been known for better than a century. It's happened over and over again. here's a primer

Sanders wants to make it illegal for US corporations to manufacture goods abroad, and sell those goods in the US. This is a recipe for disaster. When combined with a $15 minimum wage - nobody in the country beyond the ultra-rich will be able to afford anything at all. Expect that everything will increase in price 1000% at minimum.

Sanders wants to impose new taxes on financial transactions. So, you already pay income tax to the fed and state and you already pay sales tax to the state. Now he wants to add an additional tax in there somewhere. Nickel and dime. After everyone gets their slice - how much of your dollar do you have left?

I could go on and on and on...

posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 08:39 AM
a reply to: deadlyhope

What countries have higher standards of living than the USA? Are you confused? USA is ranked #8 by standard of living and the difference between #1-10 is minimal at best. Almost ALL EU countries are below the USA.

So yeah, maybe you should get your facts straight first.

posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 01:03 PM
To get back to the original question.

He would be bad for the US, because most of his pie in the sky ideas will never get passed. He's writing a bunch of checks he'll never get to cash. 4 more years of NOTHING getting done?

posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 09:12 AM
a reply to: stutteringp0et

To further this excellent post, let's also add in the staggering unemployment rate in most of the EU countries. They are extremely sovereign and strict when it comes to immigration because they want to protect their local workers, yet they have upwards of 20% unemployment. This is caused by government interference with the market and an over abundance of "free stuff". In Spain, most of the youth who are unemployed CHOOSE to not work because they don't have to, and they don't realize that they are bankrupting the future generation by doing so.

posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 03:18 PM
a reply to: stutteringp0et

To further it one more time even, concerning unions.

I made this post in another thread: Post

The point being that Unions have done a GREAT job of making sure almost EVERYONE thinks those jobs are "low paying". It is in the best interest in the Unions to hoodwink the public that way because a raise for those people is a raise for the union.

posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 06:28 PM
a reply to: muse7

Sadly we have a lot of people in this country that believe that healthcare shouldn't be a right but a privilege.

You got that right, and I am one of them.

Corporate products are not 'human rights'. They never have been.

Do Sanders supporters really think his FAILED ideology of robbing from the haves, and give to the have nots ALL so they can go out, and BUY more stuff is 'good' for this country ?

It isn't,

I know some people call that socialism. Others call it communism, but i go with Mussolini on this.


Golf clap for those that think corporations should be guaranteed money.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power."

Seen that with medicare, and medicaid. Hospitals, and big pharma.. The STATE guaranteed them money.

Seen that with alternative energies. The State guarantees solar panel makes, and wind mill turbines money.

Seen it AGAIN with Sanders 'free' education for youngsters today. Because all college's and universities are more like country clubs.. That about education.

Saw it with the ACA that guaranteed big pharma, and hospitals money.

Sanders would be a disaster for this country. Tripling the national debt if that guy ever got a first term.

The bottom line is the STATE does not exist to give us stuff.


That is not why it was created.

posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 07:10 PM
a reply to: stutteringp0et

Corporations that use loop holes to get tax break after tax break, followed by being subsidized... Pay one of the highest in the world? At a whooping few percent at times?

Switzerland, Sweden. Let's stick to those two.

We have the highest consumerism in the world. I don't see that going anywhere... We like to buy things. American made? Even better.

I'm basically in the situation you describe. I barely make enough money to not relieve government benefits. I won't lower my hours to receive them, but I won't fault those who do. Their workplace created that condition, but hey let's hold the working class responsible for their own woes. Burger flipping jobs would cease to exist if everyone would just put in a little more effort right?.... Bull. - forty hours should be at least enough to support yourself. It's often not.

posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 07:39 PM
a reply to: deadlyhope

I notice this has been said but it hasn't been said enough:
1. Socialism is bad for America, therefore Bernie is bad for America. Singapore and Hong Kong vs. Greece and Venezuela. Gee tough call there!
2. As Bernie was raking in the big millions from the big banks gutted Ron Paul's federal reserve audit, which was Ron Paul's most important piece of legislation in his career. If that doesn't make him untrustworthy as a person, I don't know what would.
3. Stealing is morally wrong. Where is his copy of the contract I signed saying I owe him money to fund his socialist agenda? Government is by consent of the governed, and we do not agree to this theft of our money.

The social contract is simple, if you don't agree to your money being taken for wars that kill hundreds of thousands of people in cold blood, then you need to prevent people like Bernie from his large corporation called the USA from getting you money.

Its morally wrong to pay federal taxes when you consider during a good year they only kill maybe 10,000 people. So, why not have Wal-Mart manage our government... they have killed a minimum number of people compared to the USA.

posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 07:47 PM

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: stutteringp0et

To further it one more time even, concerning unions.

I made this post in another thread: Post

The point being that Unions have done a GREAT job of making sure almost EVERYONE thinks those jobs are "low paying". It is in the best interest in the Unions to hoodwink the public that way because a raise for those people is a raise for the union.
During my first job at a grocery store, I was paid minimum wage. Then, I was docked an hours pay per week for being part of a union. Wow, thanks unions. My personal experience as a union member is that I was scammed and will always want my money back, but never be able to get it back.

posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 07:50 PM

Can anyone give me a real reason Bernie is bad for America?
Who the devil wants a decrepit old prune like that for President?

This country needs young blood in the WH.

posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 07:51 PM
a reply to: centarix

Can anyone at all tell me they don't drive on roads? Very few that have Internet can say this.

Can you tell me you've never used nor ever will use social security, Medicaid, food stamps, or anything else?

Ever gone to a public park?

Do you enjoy food from grocery stores, delivered by large trucks who drive on roads paid for by taxes to the government....

Pretty much everyone decrying "socialism" enjoys all of these other things that are "socialistic"

posted on Feb, 9 2016 @ 07:58 PM
a reply to: neo96

fascism is a right wing ideology concerning society and government, dont redefine it you. wont get away with it.

this idea that the government gives us free stuff is odd because in order to give, they need to tax us. roads schools and stuff.
edit on 9-2-2016 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)

if you think roads and schools are fine but have a problem with healthcare or education, you're morally bankrupt, i mean, there's no point arguing with a psychopath. i understand you dont care about anyone else but yourself, so good luck. we will make this society better as a whole. whether you like it or not.
edit on 9-2-2016 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 01:58 AM
a reply to: deadlyhope

Socialism/communism/fascism always, always fails. Might take 10 yrs, might take 50 yrs...but it always results in a failed state. One can put any word they choose in front of the term, but a pig with lipstick is still a pig.

Betchya only about 1 in 100,000 Bernie's have actually looked at his voting record. He voted against congressional term limits. Hes scary weak on terrorism - voted against numerous anti-terror bills before 9/11. He's be an atrocious PC nightmare. He's also voted for wars.

His tax plan sucks a$$. Middle-class folks like me will be the main target. Bernie's believe everyone making over $50,000 are basically rich. He believes in barrel of a gun mandates like the rest of them. He'll say he won't tax the middle class, but being a socialist means its a lie by default.

The UK's healthcare system is a mess and unsustainable - so don't go there. And nothing is for free dammit. Someone has to pay and it ain't gonna be the banks, nor the .000001%. It'll be you and me in the form of ever rising taxes.

Bernie was chairman of the VA - the one who stymied the VA scandal investigation.

Bernie's, like fake republicans, have no regard for the Constitution, and believe it's premises are outdated.

Private property and armed self-defense, are hated by the Bernie's.

Hell To The NO for me.
Trump is the only candidate that's honest and knowledgeable on trade practices vand job creation. Bernie has never produced anything.

Like all socialist's they only know how to take and redistribute.

posted on Feb, 10 2016 @ 01:59 AM
a reply to: deadlyhope

I can't argue that large corporations have tax loopholes, but I can tell you that you've got to be large to take advantage of those. My company has always paid the taxes accessed - we get a couple of write-offs, but that's it. There simply aren't loopholes designed for the average Joe to take advantage of. It's a billion dollar game, you can't play with a couple hundred thousand.

I don't know if you've noticed the difference in prices of american made goods vs foreign made goods - but it's no contest. There's a reason domestic goods are more expensive - because it's more expensive to make them. When wages go up, the cost of those goods go up. In some cases, the cost of those goods would rise so sharply that the buyers would flock to the low priced foreign competitors - in other cases, the manufacturers would cut the workforce and decrease production in order to maintain a more manageable price - but that causes a supply shortage.

I like a good american made product - the market should be allowed to do what's best, keep government out of it.

What burger flipper gets 40 hours? I've got kids and nieces and nephews entering the workforce - and they all have something in common - a 35 hour part-time job. These are entry level positions and aren't meant to be something you can support yourself with.

When I was that age, I didn't get enough hours to survive on my own - so I had roommates, I worked odd jobs, I had concession gigs, I recycled cans, I rode a bicycle to work instead of driving, I sold door-to-door - whatever I could do to get ahead. Eventually I had enough experience and education to get a job that wasn't entry-level and above minimum wage.

America, Land of the free - it doesn't mean you get a free lunch at my expense.

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