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Can anyone give me a real reason Bernie is bad for America?

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posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 11:20 PM
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a reply to: nenothtu

I think Clinton's reign would do it, personally..




posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 06:31 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

Well, where do I begin...??? I assume you can remember in 2008 when Obama was running for president, his whole campaign was based upon the notion of change because he claimed "it didn't work" when speaking about President Bush's policies. This was at the time when the market collapsed and many people were losing jobs, savings, etc. Obama played this card perfectly and was able to give hope to many people who wouldnt have voted at all if he werent running. So, Im sure you remember obama saying that. "It just doesnt work...." Over and over again this was his go-to speech rhetoric, which seemed logical to some because of the climate at that time. So, with all the change that obama brought to our country after 7+ years, the expansion of government in our daily lives, the propoganda that goes on is just sickening to me what he, and others, have done to our country. So, with all these promises he made about the economy and jobs , the facts are crystal clear: the number of americans on governmental welfare (food stamps, etc.) has gone from 25 million to almost 50 million under obama. That means the people on food stamps has doubled. Unemployment rate is highest since jimmy carter was president in the 70's. But obama doesnt say it like it is, he has the nerve to go on national tv and say to you, the american people, that the economy is growing and people are finding jobs, clean energy jobs, or what have you. With doing just a little research, one can obtain more factual information than any politician can spin. With the many regulations and start up costs that the liberal agenda imposes, starting small businesses is not an easy thing to do in this country right now. Did you know that Obama and his admin want to tax the internet? Yep, if you wanted to start a business but didnt have money for a store, or to pay employees, or didnt have enough cash flow to distribute your product from manufacturer to consumer, you would think that starting a dotcom would be a cheaper, more fiscally appropriate alternative. But now, the taxes that the government imposes makes it more difficult for entrepeneurs to get their businesses off of the ground. So, basically what I am saying and how it relates to Bernie Sanders is just think of the current job market, economy, regulations, etc. and add more regulations to that and higher taxes for everyone and more delays in response time for permits, etc. The only reason that his policies work in Vermont is because it has a small population and the average household income in that state is over 100,000 dollars. That would not work with 300+ million people, 98 million of whom are under or unemployed. It would increase the welfare state quickly. I am for Ted Cruz and I recommend that you do some research on what he stands for and how he has gone to the supreme court and won critical cases. Less govt=more freedom in all our lives.



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 08:21 AM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: nenothtu

I think Clinton's reign would do it, personally..


That's a distinct possibility. Have you noticed that her rhetoric seems to be under some amount of "adjustment" since Bernie's close call? She seems to be moving closer to his position now, trying to recoup some of her losses to him, I suppose. IMO, she was spooky enough to begin with, before the rhetorical lurch to the left. I mean, considering that she let a dinky embassy burn while having the power in her grasp to save it and it's personnel, what could we really expect of her in defense of the entire country as Commander in Chief?



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

He is the one who calls himself a socialist. I take that seriously. He knows what a socialist is, and given his background he knows the implications, he knows what it means. The label is not something Fox News concluded.

So, Mr. Deadlyhope, I caution you to proceed carefully. Capitalism is what has made this country what it is, GREAT. It is why so many people around the world want to come here. It is why we have an immigration problem. It provides opportunity to anyone, regardless of where they come from, to be a great success if they are willing to do the work, make the sacrifices, and be patient. People who are on the Sanders bandwagon are falling for the class warfare argument. Sanders wants to tax the evil rich. And in fact last night in the townhall meeting he said he would raise taxes on the young man who said he makes $42,000 a year and raises a family on that. That is a problem to me. He is not rich by any stretch. But back to the rich....he wants to make them pay for many of the free stuff promises. The very people who were willing to do the work, make the sacrifices, and build their fortune.

Do I wish I was rich? Yes. Am I? not by a long shot. Will I ever be? probably not. But I am not naive enough to think that rich people are not good for this country. You can roll your eyes at the argument that rich people make jobs but they do. The President doesn't, no matter what Obama says. In fact the only way the President can affect the economy at all is through trade agreements, tariffs, or by raising taxes to pay for infrastructure improvements. There may be a few others along the same line I missed but by and large the idea that a Presidential administration can create jobs is a fallacy. He takes credit for statistics he does not impact.

You are caught up in a fad. The Sanders fad. I don't know how old you are but if you are a young college student getting ready to go out into the world It all sounds good in a speech but believe me, when you get into your career and begin paying for Sanders ideas you will see it is not a good thing for this country.



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: nenothtu

Isn't an economic system based on the will of the people to participate? I realize heading towards socialistic equality is not something everyone wants, but enough seem to want it. It's almost arguable that keeping the same Congress and Senate might keep America in a downward spiral because their approval ratings are supposedly very low...

But what if a large portion of America desires to participate in Sanders system? Wouldn't that alone be the support beam that keeps things from crashing down? The most people against his ideas are old conservatives, and no offense - they're not the ones holding this country up.



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 10:06 AM
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a reply to: icewater

It's not really a Sanders fad. I'm not getting all excited for free college, I don't even have health problems that his Healthcare would help cover..

I am all about him breaking up the banks.
I am all about him keeping the rich from going out of control.
I am all about him calling upon the people to be involved in politics.

I will believe until I die that billionaires suck life, not give life.

I fully believe we should have 1000 millionaires in place of every billionaire.

I fully believe a city should have ten grocery stores to choose from, so competition is real and working. Not one Walmart.

I fully believe if you don't like censoring tactics of an internet company, or the crazy prices of the only cell phone company in your area - there should naturally be competition that offers what the consumer wants.

Right now, the consumers have very little choice. If they want a certain service? There's typically very few choices. The companies they can choose are too big to ever be competed against. More honest businesses get bought out or go bankrupt.

Business is no longer about providing a service in a competitive market to a variety of consumers with different desires... Business is now about saturating consumers with your products, ensuring they know you are practically the only option.

Logically, a person should not be willing to work a job that doesn't make ends meet.
A farmer doesn't plant his seeds in soil he knows won't grow his crops.
A worker, however, will work forty hours a week for a job that hardly pays rent.

This is not the workers fault - it would take the collective millions of people to rise up and demand a living wage. It would take millions going on strike to make the changes that are reasonable for the working person. Businesses know this will not happen, the people are too desperate to dream of a better life, so they obediently show up to a job that keeps them in survival mode.

That is not the American dream.

At least not in my eyes.



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: jpierc01

Ted Cruz pretends he is against the establishment... But he's big into petroleum, and he is funded by an investment banking firm..

He is also a theocrat that wants to put religious opinions into law.

I will never vote for someone that corrupt.

Bernie ideas may not be bullet proof.. But at least the guy doesn't seem like an eel.



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

keep throwing those deadly punches bro, im feeling you.



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 11:38 AM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: nenothtu

Isn't an economic system based on the will of the people to participate?



It used to be, but that barrier has already been breached, by Obamacare. The instant a governing body creates a law to enforce participation in making purchases from private enterprises, "the will of the people" no longer matters in governing eyes. The "will of the people" can now be dictated by government, rather than the other way round as it once was. Precedent has been set, and I've no doubt that Sanders will continue to build on the foundation provided by his predecessors should he gain the presidency.



I realize heading towards socialistic equality is not something everyone wants, but enough seem to want it.


I have no desire at all to participate in the downgrade involved in an enforced "socialistic equality", but am not naive enough to think the day that is attempted is not fast approaching. I have no desire at all to be an automaton, a cog in their machine, the same as every other cog. You are correct in that enough want that bland sameness to attempt to enforce it on me, but the only thing left is to see whether I will concede or actually AM willing to die before being dishonored. Don't worry over it too much - I won't be that hard to kill when the day comes.



It's almost arguable that keeping the same Congress and Senate might keep America in a downward spiral because their approval ratings are supposedly very low...


Absolutely. that is exactly why i think term limits should be imposed to 2 consecutive terms, and even session lengths of congress shortened to no more than 4 months per year. career politicians become complacent, and look to their own well-being rather than the good of the nation, and we've seen that over and over again. How long has Sanders been in office again?



But what if a large portion of America desires to participate in Sanders system?



The same thing that happens every time when one special interest group develops the notion that they have some sort of right to force another group into their own mold. It's never pretty.



Wouldn't that alone be the support beam that keeps things from crashing down?


No. It will be the support beam that raises it, but inevitably that beam will corrode when they can't deliver on the things they've promised. It's that corrosion that brings it crashing down.



The most people against his ideas are old conservatives, and no offense - they're not the ones holding this country up.



No offense taken. Old Conservatives really AREN'T the ones holding this country up. They delivered it to the young Liberals to do with as they will, and it is the young Liberals who are now holding it up... without even the common courtesy to wear a mask during the hold up!



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 01:34 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

Just wanted to give you props for doing a great job at articulating the reasons why Bernie is the best candidate. I feel exactly as you do about everything.

I am personally sick and tired of the govt. we have now. One bought by the corporations, who make policy and laws that ensure they are the only ones who will be able to make it in this world.

I can also see, based on the comments in this thread, that they've done a damn good job of convincing everyone that we need to grovel at their feet and to be grateful for the bread crumbs they leave for the rest of us. It's pathetic really to see how so many people that are oblivious to what has happened in our nation.

Most of the people who have been arguing with you about Bernie do not even respond when you repeatedly mention that Bernie is the only candidate who wants to reinstate Glass-Steagall and break up the big banks and "too big to fail" crap sandwich the people have been fed.

Wake up people. I've always been an independent voter, who has voted for candidates, not for party. Dems/Republicans are both guilty of selling out the people to the corporations. Bernie is the ONLY one not beholden to these criminals running the world.

I say give him a chance. There is no freakin' way he could do worse than what we've gotten the past 40 yrs or so.



edit on 4-2-2016 by toolgal462 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: toolgal462

Well said!


Bernie is the only candidate who is opposed to the miserable failure called trickle down, or supply side, or voodoo economics. EVERYBODY else wants to maintain that model, and it is a total failure.

I have some disagreements with him - for example I think college should be "affordable" not "free", so the students have some skin in the game, but for the most part he is right on.

What we need to do at the same time we vote him in is to vote in a decent Congress. If he has to deal with the same crap Congress that Obama has had to, it will be 4 ~ 8 more years of nothing real getting done. We've already seen what a good President dealing with a total crap Congress is like, it's time we saw a good President and a good Congress at the same time.



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: toolgal462

Agreed - Not one other candidate seems like they care to go up against the people that are most in control of our lives.

Other people say they want that... But Hilary? Funded by big business and about as evil as they come?

Cruz? Funded by big business and very much a theocrat....

How are these two saying they will bite the hands that feed them?

( In control of our lives as we participate in society - All anarchist/independent rhetoric is not what this is about. )



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: Open_Minded Skeptic
Thank you. I forgot to add I'm sick and tired of endless wars. Isn't it obvious to everyone at this point that the meddling in the middle east is all about oil? And these endless wars are only to the benefit of those same corporations who own our elected officials?

What exactly have any of us gotten out of these endless wars in the mideast?

Wake up people. I used to fall for the BS and lies the elite have been peddling for years too. No more.



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

No matter what happens, there is no way I will ever vote for Hillary. She is the biggest liar and most corrupt in the bunch. I wont forget that her hubby gave us NAFTA and also REPEALED Glass-Steagall. I know she is not her husband, and truthfully - I'd vote for Bill again before voting for her.

If she wins the D nomination then I will be wholly convinced that the entire system is a farce. There is no way in hell the people want her as the Dem candidate over Bernie. No way in hell.



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 05:42 PM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: icewater

It's not really a Sanders fad. I'm not getting all excited for free college, I don't even have health problems that his Healthcare would help cover..

I am all about him breaking up the banks.
I am all about him keeping the rich from going out of control.
I am all about him calling upon the people to be involved in politics.

I will believe until I die that billionaires suck life, not give life.

I fully believe we should have 1000 millionaires in place of every billionaire.

I fully believe a city should have ten grocery stores to choose from, so competition is real and working. Not one Walmart.

I fully believe if you don't like censoring tactics of an internet company, or the crazy prices of the only cell phone company in your area - there should naturally be competition that offers what the consumer wants.

Right now, the consumers have very little choice. If they want a certain service? There's typically very few choices. The companies they can choose are too big to ever be competed against. More honest businesses get bought out or go bankrupt.

Business is no longer about providing a service in a competitive market to a variety of consumers with different desires... Business is now about saturating consumers with your products, ensuring they know you are practically the only option.

Logically, a person should not be willing to work a job that doesn't make ends meet.
A farmer doesn't plant his seeds in soil he knows won't grow his crops.
A worker, however, will work forty hours a week for a job that hardly pays rent.

This is not the workers fault - it would take the collective millions of people to rise up and demand a living wage. It would take millions going on strike to make the changes that are reasonable for the working person. Businesses know this will not happen, the people are too desperate to dream of a better life, so they obediently show up to a job that keeps them in survival mode.

That is not the American dream.

At least not in my eyes.


Not all jobs are designed nor do they require the skill level that is valued enough in our economy to support a family. Nor should they be. A job at McDonalds as a french fry maker is not a career. Its value in our economy is to give someone a boost and to launch them into a bigger, more prolific career. I had a summer job while in college moving furniture. Believe me, it didn't pay enough to live on but it also motivated me to aspire to something bigger. I didn't want to move furniture, I wanted to own the furniture moving company. You Millennials are not patient with your career nor do you want to work for what you earn. Making french fries is not worth $15 an hour. It does not contribute that much to the McDonalds corporation. But the corporation employs thousands of second income people, students, and people who haven't decided what they want to be when they grow up. That is the value of their labor.

However, what you describe is pretty close to what socialism represents. Income redistribution, where someone is paid by the labor of someone else. That is a formula for economic disaster. Why? Because pretty soon the Billionaire that you want to take from will check out of the economic market. If your 1000 people want to be a millionaire the market is wide open for them to get an idea, build it, sell it, and it could happen. Donald Trump is a billionaire because he took risks, got educated, did the work and succeeded. Same with Bill Gates, Warren Buffut, and all the others.

The computer or device you are using at this moment was imagined and created by a rich person. The car you drive, the house you live in, nearly every comfort you enjoy in your life and in this country was. Take it from someone who has traveled extensively in third world countries...not every country enjoys the lifestyle we have. And it didn't happen with Bernie's plan. Bernie can suggest this stuff because so many people before him have created a foundation in our economy that allows him to take from it. Once society gets used to the idea that they can live off of the hard work of others, then we are lost as a country. That sort of innovation will die in our country at least. Some other country will fill the void certainly and we will be left scratching our heads wondering what happened as we are left behind. And it will be very difficult to put that genie back in the bottle.

We are slowly coming close to an Atlas Shrugged scenario. The rich are not going to participate in income redistribution I guarantee that. If you haven't read the book by Ayn Rand, I suggest you make it your next book. It is amazing how close we are to her prescient plot.



posted on Feb, 4 2016 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: icewater

Donald trump became rich because he was given a million dollars to start a business...

The device I'm using? Patented, with a lot of hardware inside of it that's also patented.

I very strongly dispute that someone can just have a good idea and make money off it. The richest people in the world right now, the Walton family, inherited their riches.

Sometimes it's who you know, not what you know, when it comes to being rich.

Dollar menus exist because of under paid workers.. Some restaurants and retail stores pay a higher wage and offer a higher quality ( deemed by price customer will pay) product.

No, you can't just advance in the world. What if every adult in the nation suddenly aspired to be in a better paying job than they are now? The jobs don't exist.

I could keep going on.. But most diamonds in their eyes people will never understand.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 06:27 PM
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Put it this way; If Sanders doesn't win the election, you know the system is rigged. Through and through.



posted on Feb, 5 2016 @ 06:32 PM
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Because he is essentially the mole man from The Simpson's.



posted on Feb, 6 2016 @ 12:08 AM
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My personal opinion is that Sanders base is the problem. I don't want the country steered by children and elitist old fogies.



posted on Feb, 6 2016 @ 03:34 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

The mere substance of your reply proves you do not know who Ted Cruz is and how he has fought against cronyism and the status quo while in the u.s. senate. He is passionate about conservative american values, which includes pro-life, against same sex marriage, etc. This country is supposed to be about freedom of religion, how can you knock a guy who a)believes in one god, b)is a christian. He is not trying to "put religious opinions into law" as you had said earlier. I want you to name one law that he is trying to pass that is based on religious opinion. Inform me if you can. Just because you may not believe in a higher power or a God, doesnt make it wrong that he has his own beliefs. Just as a christian shouldn't frown upon atheists in this country. "One country, under God...." Religion, of some sort, has been present in this country since america was founded, you cannot disagree with me on that.

You say he's big into petroleum. What does that even mean? How does that even relate to the Republican Establishment?? We all use petroleum in some form or another. We wouldnt be as advanced society if it weren't for "fossil fuels". The spending in Washington has gotten to a point where most politicians are too afraid to stand up to the status quo for fear of upsetting lobbyists and other politicians. Ted Cruz, along with senators mike lee, jeff sessions voted against Omnibus spending bill. Are you familiar with that bill which was passed in the last couple months? Paul Ryan, the new House speaker, an establishment guy, gets on his knees for obama and has been a complete pushover. He is what is wrong with the republican party. The politicians who vote for these massive spending bills are the corrupt ones, not ted cruz. I mean, if obamacare was such a good idea, why does the actual bill omit members of congress and the white house from being included in the law? How can a politician create a law, endorse it, promote it, speak highly of it, recommend it to the congress, and at the same time refuse themselves and their family to follow that law. That is corruption to me in my eyes. Do you feel that way as well?



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