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Will your Humanity get you killed in a planet-wide survival situation?

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posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

I would think being cruel and greedy to everyone would also make you a target.




posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: AmericanRealist

Yes, and no. In that situation, no matter how valuable a person might be perceived to be, if they create a hostile situation within the group, then in the end, they might make the overall survival situation worse than better.

So there are still some places where a group decision or input will be needed.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: VP740

To an extent. Certainly not as much as being ever-giving and totally trusting.

But, I was never suggesting the hypothetical situation was all or nothing of either. You can still be cautionary, without humanity, and not have to be cruel.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 03:04 PM
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My bug out bag has what I need.

An infrared camera.
A hand operated charging device for the batteries to the camera.
A portable welding torch.
A portable water pump.
Hoses.

Then I intend to locate the prepper shelters with the use of the infrared camera finding he heat signature of the exhaust from the ventilation system.
Welding the door shut I prevent the prepper from escaping while I fill the shelter with water through the ventilation shaft.
Once the job is done I have access to all stored food with a minimum of effort.

No group needed. I'm my own boss.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: HolgerTheDane2
My bug out bag has what I need.

An infrared camera.
A hand operated charging device for the batteries to the camera.
A portable welding torch.
A portable water pump.
Hoses.

Then I intend to locate the prepper shelters with the use of the infrared camera finding he heat signature of the exhaust from the ventilation system.
Welding the door shut I prevent the prepper from escaping while I fill the shelter with water through the ventilation shaft.
Once the job is done I have access to all stored food with a minimum of effort.

No group needed. I'm my own boss.


Wow, it seems like you have thought about this.

You have also kind of answered the question of "humanity" as a survival trait.

Fair do's



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

To me there's a huge difference between being overly trusting and valuing honesty. One could keep what they need to survive, giving only what they can make due without and I'd still consider them generous.

Even being focused solely on your own survival, I think a willingness for cooperation and diplomacy usually serve your own interests well. There may be times when lying, stealing and other inhumane deeds would help; but these would be the exception rather than the rule.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 03:53 PM
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originally posted by: HolgerTheDane2

Once the job is done I have access to all stored food with a minimum of effort.

No group needed. I'm my own boss.


This is why altruism and a sense of humanity won't work, and why AR-15's are required. While this guy is wielding his welding torch I'll be using my scope.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: HolgerTheDane2

Once the job is done I have access to all stored food with a minimum of effort.

No group needed. I'm my own boss.


This is why altruism and a sense of humanity won't work, and why AR-15's are required. While this guy is wielding his welding torch I'll be using my scope.


You cannot be awake 24 hours a day though.

this guy scares me in his attitude.

Not too much though as I do not have a bunker to be welded into and drowned but I have a strange admiration for his attitude.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: schuyler

Yea and I wonder why he believes nobody will notice or hear a guy trying to weld shut the ONLY means of escape. Because you know, we should just neglect the primary access point and hope people are good?? Sorry HolgerTheDane2, but you would be dead pretty quick with that as your survival strategy. too violent I guess

a reply to: ketsuko


I outlined my plan based on the scenarios provided, not on how I would actually do things because we are playing a game here.

If I were already in control a group the size of scenario 3, than the authoritarian iron fist system is already in place. I would be as fair as possible, but lets be honest, usually the sociopaths and killers will be in charge of security. If people want to vote on whether I want the guy I just isolated for a week, and the released under guard with job functions without permission to leave for 3 months to remain in the community, I would have to set a nice example. I AM running the show in scenario 3, not the group. Me and my security.

I would not hesitate to execute those who question my absolute authority. It takes some serious brutality to restart a civilization. Does everyone just kind of forget how every society currently and in the past began??? Consolidating resources AND maintaining them takes a brutal thought process and actions. The good aspects of civilization evolve after centuries of stability and security.

So yea sorry, the world just started over, Democracy is gone. Its a reason people evolve towards a democracy and do not just start at one. Because to try and do that with a ragtag of humans with differing opinions that barely know each other WILL lead to perceptions of weakness, coup de tats , mutiny, and so on. Give everyone a voice and they suddenly think they can step on you.

Takes decades and centuries in resources and education being constant and stable before institutions make a comeback. In the beginning the only common ground is survival. After that is secured for a very long period of time, then demands for 'better' can be met, but slowly.

Hey, I am only going by documented history here.
edit on 1/30/2016 by AmericanRealist because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 04:47 PM
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The show The Walking Dead covers this issue pretty well as do a lot of post-apocalyptic stories. What typically happens is that people at first try to retain some sense of humanity by sharing, working together, etc but as resources start to get scarce it becomes obvious pretty quickly that you cannot help everyone and your first priority has to be yourself and your own family.

The biggest issue is that 99% of people are in no way prepared to deal with a massive collapse of society. Most do not have food beyond a couple of days, have no idea how to hunt (much less have available firearms), etc. It won't take long before people start taking desperate measures to survive which means stealing other people's sh*t.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 05:57 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Thats the thing. You don't need to hoard food. Doing so may make you a target. Someone who never really goes out to find food. Is never seen leaving their house....thats someone who will have a hoard come in the middle of the night to steal their supplies. Then you have the risk of a fight.

In such a situation, as we have seen in your example show....nothing makes you safe, although you can find 'safer'.

Regardless, itll either be alliances of raids that'll keep people alive.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

I'm flattered you took my thread and created another. My disagreement with you there can continue here.

I still believe we must strive to keep our humanity, give what you can to whomever you can, whenever you can. We are meant to commune....even if it's at the world's end.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: Ghost147
I still believe we must strive to keep our humanity, give what you can to whomever you can, whenever you can. We are meant to commune....even if it's at the world's end.


In a world where psychopaths and sociopaths didn't exist, this could work. However, they are out there, and many will become sociopathic in such a scenario. Happy-go-lucky just doesn't cut it in that kind of world.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 10:35 PM
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a reply to: Ghost147

I would protect you because you are a friend.. That's 2 against one



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: refined

well, you won't really know that until you have nothing to eat, its cold, the meds have run out, you have to start a fire to make light, and everyone is looking for a reason to fight you. Then you may discover some scary truths about yourself, we ALL would. Anyone who cannot admit to such really is not being honest.

I will be honest, with rule of law gone, hmm well maybe I should not say such things eh? If someone have never been in a simple fist fight, or only in school chances are they will be unable to be honest about how they may react in a lawless land. Those of us who grew up fighting, and still do once in awhile will know exactly who they will be in such a society, and can admit they may reach levels not even thought about in a stable society.

If you have not had the opportunity to make fists smash against the bloody tender face of another, life will be difficult at first, many wont survive the first year. Just saying.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 02:21 AM
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originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: HolgerTheDane2

Once the job is done I have access to all stored food with a minimum of effort.

No group needed. I'm my own boss.


This is why altruism and a sense of humanity won't work, and why AR-15's are required. While this guy is wielding his welding torch I'll be using my scope.


All joking aside, I think that survival of the fittest will step into effect.

If it is a sudden breakdown of society, I think that after the looting it will be every man for himself, perhaps every family group for themselves.
People will group later on in groups of a leader and some followers who need to be told what to do.
There will be internal fights while some mistakenly think that survival will be based on democracy.

And there will be roaming gangs.

We can see it even now when some are toiling away on their little plot of soil, and some evil do'er have taken their crop during the night. ONE person will be able to destroy what a number of people are trying to build up. That will take strong leaders with the will to kill to prevent.

Democracy and "nice" people will not be able to coexist with marauding gangs in a broken down society.

Only when all play by the same rules and have agreed on playing nice, will society start to rebuild.

edit on 31-1-2016 by HolgerTheDane2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 05:50 AM
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a reply to: Ghost147




For the sake of this argument, 'Humanity' is defined by virtue: valuing love, kindness, generosity, friendliness, truthfulness.

Which makes the entire point moot. Under the scenarios that was stated , not much of your listing would exist anymore.Therefore most people with those traits would be the first "voted off the island"




posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 06:32 AM
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originally posted by: HolgerTheDane2
All joking aside, I think that survival of the fittest will step into effect.

If it is a sudden breakdown of society, I think that after the looting it will be every man for himself, perhaps every family group for themselves.
People will group later on in groups of a leader and some followers who need to be told what to do.
There will be internal fights while some mistakenly think that survival will be based on democracy.

And there will be roaming gangs.

We can see it even now when some are toiling away on their little plot of soil, and some evil do'er have taken their crop during the night. ONE person will be able to destroy what a number of people are trying to build up. That will take strong leaders with the will to kill to prevent.

Democracy and "nice" people will not be able to coexist with marauding gangs in a broken down society.

Only when all play by the same rules and have agreed on playing nice, will society start to rebuild.

True true. That sums up my thinking.

Out of the 3 OP scenarios I can really only imagine what I would do based on what I believe I know of myself and my ego. Which of course would be more realistic than what I think or imagine others would do.


originally posted by: Ghost147
In each one of these scenarios, what is your opinion on how valuable a sense of Humanity is? Will 'too much humanity' even get you killed?
For the sake of this argument, 'Humanity' is defined by virtue: valuing love, kindness, generosity, friendliness, truthfulness.

IMO - Humanity is only necessary for building relationships. Something not everyone wants or needs but will fake or feign until they have what they wanted.


originally posted by: Ghost147
Scenario 1:
~ You're all by yourself
~ You have no idea if any of your family or friends are alive
~ You're currently within the boarders of a large city and so have a choice to enter it or to go out into the country side

Survival is job one. After cautious assessment of encounters with others I think of me showing humanity here as having the benefit of helping me to connect with other like minded individuals or groups. It can improve our survival chances as long as each has a complimentary element to share and enhance the relationship.
Showing too much humanity will attract parasitic leeches that will hang on me and slow me down or put me at risk of being taken advantage of and killed. I can always try and come back for them later.


originally posted by: Ghost147
Scenario 2:
~ You're are in a small group of around 6
~ You feel as though you have the strongest leadership skills. The others simply follow your moves (but don't directly acknowledge you as 'leader')
~ Your group is made up of some family members, and some people you've never met until recently
~ You're currently within the boarders of a large city and so have a choice to enter it or to go out into the country side

This is the result of Scenario #1. Humanity in this scenario has the ongoing benefit of building trust and respect without demanding it. The old adage of a little kindness goes a long way could build some strong bonds and help the groups synergy and cohesion. It could also play a key role building a larger group of like minded survivors. We can talk about going back for others.
However, these bonds may prove to be too difficult to break and will interfere with tough choices later. Too much humanity here can be viewed by many as weakness and will get me and possibly others killed. I could end up in a pond of leeches and sheeple.


originally posted by: Ghost147
Scenario 3:
~ You're in a large community of nearly 100 people
~ You're appointed as leader of this community
~ The community consists of family, friends, as well as random individuals
~ The community is enclosed by decently strong walls (it would take great effort to enter the community, even by force, but not impossible to break through)

I've somehow managed to strike a balance between showing humanity and making logical decisions that helped our small group of like minded individual survivors grow into a small community. We went out and saved others who needed help and brought them into our community. We will keep rebuilding and have laws and become a great empire! We will prosper until I find myself back at Scenario #1.

Unless we miraculously evolve we are all still just humans and will keep doing what we have always done.

I see humanity as the glue that keeps humans bonded. But too much glue will never solidify and the bond will fall apart.

Rinse and Repeat.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 06:41 AM
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No, the planet wide survival situation will get me killed.


I think the chances of anybody surviving a complete breakdown of society are vanishingly small.



posted on Jan, 31 2016 @ 05:01 PM
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originally posted by: Painterz
No, the planet wide survival situation will get me killed.


I think the chances of anybody surviving a complete breakdown of society are vanishingly small.


So I take it you're in the lower image?





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