The People Had Overwhelming Force at the Bundy Ranch, and They Showed Restraint... But When...

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: 4N0M4LY

I'm sorry, but I don't see what is wrong with what the feds did here. When presented with overwhelming force, do what they ask you to do. If someone tells me to stop and put my hands up, I do it. I don't drive off at excessive speed, then try to break through a roadblock. As soon as I do that, COMMON SENSE tells me I am taking my life into my own hands. Why law enforcement has to answer to this type of BS is beyond me. This wasn't a guy walking down the street getting shot in the back. This was a guy that was pulled over, told to stop. He decided not too. Tried to run a road block. Almost hit a law officer with his car. He was then put down. Why is this hard for people to understand?

Well there are People who agrees With you.

But there is a reason why we have People who are specifically trained to handle these Things, and not you.

We dont selected individuals for the FBI/cops for Training in how to kill civilians more effisient, but in how to solve any situation before leathal force should be used. We dont Call 911 if we want someone we dont like killed.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Ah so that is why I have always loved your insight, got it, you are awesome and now my respect for you has grown. Keep me in the loop ok?

originally posted by: spy66
But there is a reason why we have People who are specifically trained to handle these Things, and not you.

The people trained to handle situations like this, the police handled it properly, and they do not contact random's on the internet to ask what to do. Some people behind a keyboard want to think they are experts!

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: spy66
But there is a reason why we have People who are specifically trained to handle these Things, and not you.

The people trained to handle situations like this, the police handled it properly, and they do not contact random's on the internet to ask what to do. Some people behind a keyboard want to think they are experts!

How can you state that the police handled this properly??? On what grounds? I would really like to hear this.

Not all cops are properly trained to handle situations like this. Cops very often do ask People who have proper training. So does the FBI, CIA and the SF. We learn from eachother. Even civilian specialists help.

originally posted by: spy66
How can you state that the police handled this properly??? On what grounds? I would really like to hear this.

No innocent people died, no police died, the only person who died did not want to be arrested, and committed suicide by cop.

So it was handled properly.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: spy66
How can you state that the police handled this properly??? On what grounds? I would really like to hear this.

No innocent people died, no police died, the only person who died did not want to be arrested, and committed suicide by cop.

So it was handled properly.

I Guess its hard for you and many others to see the difference between a suicide and being executed.

Personally i cant understand that People would Accept this form of government behaviour. It is a Direct threat to you and everyone you know.

I Guess that if a person walkes With his hands up and away from the body, and no gun present...is a sign....asking the authority to kill you.

In this case i feel really sorry for the once who actually intend to surrender. Because the cops would probably take that as a sign of having a Death whish.

originally posted by: spy66
I Guess that if a person walkes With his hands up and away from the body, and no gun present...is a sign....asking the authority to kill you.

Except in this case he had a gun, and reached for it so was shot....

In this case i feel really sorry for the once who actually intend to surrender.

If you want to surrender you do what the police say, not reach for a gun....

a reply to: hellobruce



So you know for a fact that the suspect reached for a gun. There is no doubt about that at all.


Did he pull the gun out of the holster too, to use it?

a reply to: spy66
Why are we making excuses for people that didn't surrender? Why are you defending them. There is a very easy way NOT to get shot, and that is follow the instructions you are receiving.

No one made these guys do an armed takeover of federal land. No one made these guys pull away after they had been pulled over and asked to step outside the car. No one made these guys try to drive through a roadblock manned with INNOCENT law enforcement individuals.

At what point to you kill someone because they are endangering your team? It is a judgement call, not to be monday morning quarterbacked by us. The issue is, once you disobey instructions and put law enforcement life 'at risk' they have the authority to use deadly force.

a reply to: mzinga


Because he did surrender when he walked out of the car. If this was one of the FBI HRT who shot him. It was a delibaret execution.


Normally a HRT team would not kill a person who does not hold a weapon in his hand, And because he brought his hands down to his beltbucle. If you focus on him the first time he brings Down his hands you can see his hand cleary in front of his belt bucle. He was not reaching for anything, and the FBI agent who was moving towards him should have seen that.


But discussing this topic With People who have no understand of how HRT teams work and do this... Is pointless. You have no Insight into this to begin With.

a reply to: spy66

FBI didn't shoot Finicum; Oregon State Police did.

Does that change your analysis?

originally posted by: spy66
Because he did surrender when he walked out of the car. If this was one of the FBI HRT who shot him.

As you have been shown, it was NOT the FBI that shot him, why are you ignoring that?

He was not reaching for anything,

Except his gun....

and the FBI agent who was moving towards him should have seen that.

Why your fixation on the FBI? The policeman who shot him saw him reaching for his gun...

But discussing this topic With People who have no understand of how HRT teams work and do this

That would be you !

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: spy66

FBI didn't shoot Finicum; Oregon State Police did.

Does that change your analysis?

They both shot at him. The cop who came from behind only brought him Down....he was hit before that.

At the Bundy Ranch, the armed civilians could have easily annihilated all those BLM goons with guns, and yet chose to stick it out until a peaceful solution came their way

Are there people who actually believe they could kill a group of federal or local enforcers and not be killed as a result.

There is no violent solution for use by a small subset of society. At this point non violent protest don't do much because of the numbers game. Short of millions, it is simply written off by authorities with no need for a change.

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: spy66

FBI didn't shoot Finicum; Oregon State Police did.

Does that change your analysis?

They both shot at him. The cop who came from behind only brought him Down....he was hit before that.

Ah. That's not what the official statement from Oregon State Police states.

Oregon State Police - News Releases

On January 26, 2016 at approximately 4:30PM, Oregon State Police Troopers were involved in an officer involved shooting during the arrest of several individuals near Burns.

The Deschutes County Major Incident Team will be assisting the Oregon State Police and the Harney County District Attorney's Office with the investigation. The investigation will be conducted in compliance with Senate Bill 111 which outlines protocols to be followed when deadly physical force is used.

Nor what local news sources consistently report:

www.oregonlive.com - online version of The Oregonian

Finicum was shot by Oregon State Police officers during an attempt to stop and arrest the leaders of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation, then in its 25th day.

originally posted by: spy66
They both shot at him. The cop who came from behind only brought him Down....he was hit before that.

Just why are you fixated on the FBI, when we know they were not involved in the shooting after he reached for his gun?

a reply to: Blindmancc

If you look at what the Bundy's originally dealt with on their ranch, and then look at the injustice put upon the Hammond's. You might think there is something wrong with our country.

They are two different things. The deadbeat Bundy's refused to pay grazing fees even after losing in court several times. The Hammond's let fire spread to government land which is illegal to do.

a reply to: TrueAmerican

So let there be no question of the mal intentions of the murdering hit squad here. And let there be no attention paid to those seeking to steer your focus from the facts.

Except for the facts that you haven't bothered to even talk about while making this idiot a martyr. This moron ran through one roadblock almost running over an officer while doing so and was trying to evade another before getting shot. Anyone with half a brain knows if you do things like this the police are going to shoot you.

a reply to: spy66

100% disagree. He endangered lives. Whether or not he surrendered is pointless. He caused confusion by not following instructions. The personnel on the scene have to make a judgement call if lives are at danger to use deadly force. I saw lives in danger in that video. If you can't admit that most people will lose respect for you. Whether or not at the moment the shot was fired lives were at risk is a pointless discussion. As soon as that individual put law enforcement lives at danger so was his.

If my wife/dad/son is on scene there I tell them to shoot him with no remorse. Their life was endangered. You act like you were on scene hearing the person running in the snow saying 'I surrender' while reaching for his belt. Even if your ignorant assumption is true, 10 seconds before he exits the car he has endangered life and given that Decision up to officers on scene.

Point blank there is no defensible position to defend this dip#. He was part of a group who broke the law. He compounded that by fleeing from officers. He further compounded that by putting lives at risk. He lost his rights when he endangered lives. Idiots like you that defend this type of bull# draw away from true examples when excessive force is used.

a reply to: Gryphon66


To the Public the video show only one thing when it comes to the cause of the subjects Death. That the "cop" who approached from behind brought him Down. So they had to make that statment to the media. And they did....

What the Public dont see is that the FBI agent who moves to the left in front of the subject is also shooting his weapon.

If you focus on the gun the FBI agen holds in his hand. Would you know what to look for to see if he is firing his weapon?

If you dont know what to look for, the majority of the publick who watch the video wouldn't either. That is why the authorites dont have to release a statment that the FBI firied his weapon at the victim.