Is it so hard to believe secret space operations are happening?

a reply to: RAY1990

Read up on orbital speeds. It already is around 8km/s around the earth. It´s not really launched straight down. It goes through periapsis and reaches terminal velocity just before impact.

basically the energy is converted to heat, not 100% but enough to be devastating. It´s not the speed that kills in the end, it´s the motion energy converted into heat energy. Hope this makes sense in english!

The rod get´s very hot, ice and water will vaporize on contact. That alone will give you different momentum vectors.

I guess the problem with any kind of large Space Fleet is that it would be pretty difficult to keep all the secondary and support stuff a secret. Along with the fact that there is a huge number of amateur astronomers and sky watchers out there looking for any stray light that zooms across the night sky.

On the other hand, most people don't care. That's probably the best way to keep stuff secret.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Got any links or hints on where to look?

I've heard of the tungsten rod idea but I wasn't aware they tested it, I can imagine rockets are the best alternative especially when it comes to multiple targets.

I can imagine it's always been a case of having all this tech but no computing power till the last 10 years or so.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
I guess the problem with any kind of large Space Fleet is that it would be pretty difficult to keep all the secondary and support stuff a secret. Along with the fact that there is a huge number of amateur astronomers and sky watchers out there looking for any stray light that zooms across the night sky.

On the other hand, most people don't care. That's probably the best way to keep stuff secret.

Exactly,

Except we've been launching things for years every other week.

Supply isn't too much of an issue, if you are the one supplying.

a reply to: RAY1990

That it's been tested? No. To the theoretical system, yes.

www.popsci.com...
www.geniusstuff.com...

originally posted by: Blue Shift
I guess the problem with any kind of large Space Fleet is that it would be pretty difficult to keep all the secondary and support stuff a secret. Along with the fact that there is a huge number of amateur astronomers and sky watchers out there looking for any stray light that zooms across the night sky.

On the other hand, most people don't care. That's probably the best way to keep stuff secret.

Well, you don't base your secret fleet on planet, and you steal the best and brightest right out of high school or college. If you offer them the choice between living in a science fiction movie or not, they'll probably keep their mouths shut I'd imagine.

Also, you can recruit orphans and people who don't have significant ties to anyone on Earth. There's billions of people down here to choose from.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

If something isn't reflecting light, or in the same orbital plane...it could very easily not be seen by the ISS or anyone else hanging out up there. Especially if it's in a higher orbit. It's easier to see the things below you, as you generally are looking down from the ISS. The sun also seems to do a good job being so bright it kind of outshines things.

Unless these are very tiny ships (think small jet fighter aircraft size), the main issue with keeping it secret is the amount of launches it would require to put stuff into orbit to build it.

Launches are kind of hard to keep secret in first world countries. Just take a look at how they light up the sky at night, and the tremendous amount of noise they make (I heard a space shuttle launch once down in Florida. I was 30 miles away an damn did that thing roar up into the sky).

The amount of materials would require very large launch platforms. No dinky small rockets are going to lift tons of materials required, and not be noticed.

Then you have another problem: keeping it secret means keeping it from view.

If it's in orbit around the Earth below geostationary orbit, it will appear to move in the sky.

There are literally tens of millions of amature astronomers out there who keep track of all satellite movements. They are looking for small objects like asteroids and comets. They would certainly see any large ships in orbit around the Earth due to the light they reflected.

Make them low light reflections? Okay, now you still have a problem: They will block the light from stars they pass in front of. Stars do not just wink out and wink back on. Anything occluding star light would be noticed and reported.

If there were something up there, it would have to be well away from the Earth, living long term exposed to cosmic radiation and radiation from the sun every time it burps.

In order to have a secret space fleet out there, you have to make a lot of assumptions: Assume they have a way of launch massive amounts of material into space and not be noticed. Assume they found a way to keep it invisible to anyone here on Earth. Assume they have a way to keeping the tens of thousands of support personnel here on Earth quiet. Assume that they are using tech that we are not suppose to have, and last: assume for some reason they'd keep it quiet for.......what reason?

Let me guess: the reason is yet another assumption.

Just way too many assumes for me. Makes for a good story, but realistically I don't see how it could be done, and kept secret.

IMHO

a reply to: eriktheawful

They would certainly see any large ships in orbit around the Earth due to the light they reflected.

What if they are painted black

I don't believe in ships but a few "communication" satellites that weight a few tons could be weapon platforms.

a reply to: Indigent

Go back and read my post: Sure, paint them black.....screen them to block any EMF they might transmit, and somehow block any heat signatures....

Now: How you going to keep them from occluding stars when they pass in front of them? Unless you make them literally invisible, they will block star light.

a reply to: eriktheawful

I wonder how much a 100m ship traveling at few thousands km/h at hundreds or thousands km away from earth would really obstruct the stars, a millisecond? less?

I don't find it hard to believe that there's sooper seekrit space projects going on at all.

In fact, I'd be shocked if there weren't.

Whether those projects are for military purposes or scientific exploration/research/advancement isn't really the point in question.

It's not hard to keep the public uninformed, misinformed, disinformed... until such a time that whomever decides to fill us in on something.

How many times has the public been told about some scientific advancement/discovery/project/whatever, only to find out that it was under research and development for several years before the public was finally informed about it ?

And let's be honest... do we really truly know absolutely everything that goes on at the ISS ? We only know what they let us know. I'm not saying there's any sort of 'nefarious agendas' that may be going on up there... But truth be told, we the public are on a "need-to-know basis" only. And that's a fact.

Nope, it wouldn't be hard at all to keep some things hush hush from the general public.

a reply to: Indigent

Probably not due to (what´s up with it ^^) tada: atmospheric disturbances.
I bet you wont notice it with bare eyes and I bet even hq equipment would have a hard time, depending on the angle, temperature and so on.

a reply to: RAY1990

It's not at all hard to believe that we have a secret space program. Actually, I'd say that's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

Considering how old our stealth technology is, I would imagine that we've also developed cloaking technology by now as well.

Couple that with anti-grav technology and most of the public awareness obstacles "disappear."

Hell yes, we have a secret space program.

Yes, all space faring nations have classified satellites, mostly for surveillance and communications, but there might be a few treaty busting weapons platforms out there as well. No, there is not a huge Star Wars fleet of fighters out there. Earth doesn't have the infrastructure.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

We have proof of that.

a reply to: Aliensun

It would have to be a crash into a major city or a flyover of a superbowl before most would believe they are real. IIRC there was a rumor of one crashing in California awhile back and thats all that made it out of the site, a rumor.

I had a sinking feeling once that those BBT are not for us down here on the planet, most of us(Us as in the current combined populations of all countries on the Earth) cannot be trusted to operate a fossil fueled powered vehicle in a safe and responsible way so why would THEY release that sort of tech for the general public? I`m starting to get the notion those things are for the NEXT human civilization to spring up after the current one gets "overhauled".

a reply to: StratosFear

It would have to be a crash into a major city or a flyover of a superbowl before most would believe they are real. IIRC there was a rumor of one crashing in California awhile back and thats all that made it out of the site, a rumor.

I assume you are talking about a huge fleet of faster than light spacecraft.. It would certainly take more than internet rumors. A peer reviewed paper explaining how their propulsion system works would be nice. Failing that, some documentation of the logistics of the craft's production might do the trick. What is it made out of? Where are the materials mined? Where are they refined? How are they transported to the production facilities? How many people work at these facilities? How are they hired? What happens when they retire?

Here is a plant that manufactures automobiles. Note how much area the factory buildings cover. Also note the huge number of cars in the parking lot. Even making something as simple as an automobile requires a lot of workers.



www.volkswagenag.com...

Here is a plant that manufactures airplanes. Note the railroad tracks used to deliver the raw materials.



wikimapia.org...

Here is a plant that manufactures spacecraft. Note the huge volume. To construct such a plant underground would require displacing a large amount of earth. It could not be done secretly; its construction would be visible from orbit and the displaced earth would have to be put somewhere. Also note that NASA requires dozens of facilities of this size to maintain the not secret space fleet.



www.nasa.gov...

I would accept details of the secret production facilities as evidence of the secret space navy.

originally posted by: n00bUK
a reply to: RAY1990

NAVY Space Command Uncovered

A thread from a legend of a member, Zorgon, which you will be interested in

I never did find out what happened to Zorgon ...

a reply to: n00bUK

There's an Air Force Space Command too. It doesn't mean what people think though.