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New Testament original texts, where are they?

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posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 01:20 PM
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What an odd thing to say. The lords word as you call it is entirely pseudepigraphal without the originals. So it is mans words I don't trust.
Faith to you is believing in something without logic, proof, or evidence. It's the hallmark of Christianity because without faith the church wouldn't exist.
Faith to me is the belief in God. No more no less. You accuse me of trusting archaeology, guilty. It's a legitimate science and the sourceof all we know about the ancient world. Science has a lot of b.s., but archeology is not a b.s. science. It's given us the source of lots of the stories in the bible, (Canaan, Babylon, and more)
One thing it has never uncovered is evidence of the existence of Yeshua ben Yosef and his 12 Apostles. Faith doesn't trump logic imo, in fact I find doubt is superior to faith, it shows an absence of arrogance, specifically, assuming that what men have told you about God is the truth. That is more arrogant than faithful. And believing mans words, and trusting men who lived a long time ago who couldn't make sure the originals survived. That's not faith in God, that's faith in what a book tells you about God.
I have faith in God and I don't need a book that's been edited and changed from its original story to suit the needs of the state, and been spiritually enslaving humans for too long.
Do you think human sacrifice isOK? Infanticide, genocide, war mongering, slaughtering towns and cities is acceptable behavior for a person? I hope not. So if God is better than we are, and worthy of worship he wouldn't have had to do any of that sadistic stuff he did in the bible. And him being God he should be held to a higher standard than humans, and he should practice what he preaches.
God is not the demonic Yahweh of the old testament, and never became a human. God is unknowable except through prayer and his Holy Spirit is with us always.
Like I said the one of the two most important thing in the New Testament ( the other the two Messianic commandments) is the introduction of the Holy Spirit, those are the two things in the bible that matter. The rest is just spiritual exercise.
edit on 2-2-2016 by areyousirius360 because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-2-2016 by areyousirius360 because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: UtnapisjtimSorry mam but they might have been in poor condition, but they were complet enough to piece together all but one book of the old Testament and translate it. The crappy parts were the Messianic prophetical texts. The rest were complete OldTestament texts.
You can't be wrong ever huh? You call them garbage, then I tell you that they found the complete Old Testament there, so you bring up there condition, but they were complete regardless, and I have seen pictures.
What's it gonna be next more shoddy arguments? You can't just say OK they could have preserved them ( a fact that I only used the dead sea scrolls to prove) and didn't (another fact)
Dance around it all day but those ARE the facts.
edit on 2-2-2016 by areyousirius360 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: areyousirius360

I don't call it garbage, I called it rubbish. Highly intriguing and interesting rubbish, but rubbish. Just about all we know from ancient times we know through ruins and rubbish, billions of bits and pieces, enough for us to piece together a hunch about the history of literature and human civilisation. The whole universe, it's rubbish, more or less structured rubbish, but rubbish. It's all dust and empty space with some stars in between it to make it all sparkle and twinkle.
edit on 2-2-2016 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: UtnapisjtimRubbish is garbage they are synonyms. That's a very depressing way to look at things, I feel bad now.I was just using it is show how your theory that they decayed because of time was not valid. Man as well as God DID have the ability to preserve them.   But if through neglect or to conceal information man can't produce evidence of Jesus it is not a sin to question, why?
So cheer up, us existing is reason enough to believe in God and follow previously mentioned 2 commandments is easy enough for everyone to follow and just basically means to be a good person. Remember, evil acts are usually done willingly and knowingly.
And if death is the same as never having existed no big deal then, at least you were good while ya lived.



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: areyousirius360

Feel free to be as depressed you'd like, but everything will eventually whither away. Call it dystopian, call it realism, call me a bloody preacher, but it's the right and worn down truth. Nothing lasts forever, even all the atoms and elements making up this whole multiversal perpetual explosion will sooner or later end up in pure energy and return to the nothing from which they once came. It's all dust. We're dust, it's just structured and coupled with energy and logics in such a way that we can exist and be all philosophical about it. Cheer up, dude, and perhaps now is the time to adjust the blood sugar levels?



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 03:37 PM
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a reply to: UtnapisjtimOh I'm not depressed, I think that what you SAID is a depressing way to look at things. Have you ever actually seen an atom? I don't think anyone has. So why are you worried about atoms? They can't help you. I don't care what you believe I don't think we're truly mortal, just our body. Our conciencness lives on without our flesh and there is no hell.
So I don't need to be cheered up every day is great for me.



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 03:41 PM
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a reply to: UtnapisjtimYou need to get back on topic and not worry about my health, I don't have a single health problem and I eat great.
Just because your first theory didn't work out, doesn't mean you can't offer another. There are many possibilities.



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 05:22 PM
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a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Either God is powerful enough to do as he said he would in PS 12:6, 7 and preserved his words whole and complete for us today.

Or we are left to flounder in the ever changing opinion of men and science.

Which is it?

Do we have a complete, whole, preserved word of God?

Or not?


edit on 2-2-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 05:26 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn


Do we have a complete, whole, preserved word of God?

Or not?


Apparently not...

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.




posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 06:01 PM
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We can reasonably believe that a greater intelligence exists over us that created us because nothing happens without a cause nothing exists without being created. Things don't appear out of nowhere for no reason, complex like has better origins than a primal soup. Humans have no idea how our species came into existence never mind the Universe. A whole lot of guessing leading to no REAL answer.
I don't find it cool or righteous to worship a god (yhwh) who commits acts that make Hitler and Pol Pot look like Mother Theresa and Ghandi. Infanticide, urban annihilation, chronic gonocide, global destruction, human sacrifice of his own son as a condition of forgiveness when he could just forgive.
Christianity was coming to power right before the dark ages and Christianity caused the Inquisition and the Crusades, has a history almost exclusively Roman Catholic that has continued a tradition of heinous acts with you know what and every Christian church with a bible has to live with that history.
And they say hes a merciful god.
What is Christianity? the percentage of christians who attend church and have actually read the bible cover to cover has got to be low. The percentage that understands it lower. What does that say for a religion that teaches not to have faith in humankind and depends on others to tell them what what to believe. Never mind the greedy pastors and televangelists all competing again each other, each of them the "correct church".
Jehovah's witnesses are a million plus adherants strong. Or close, the point is, each one of them believes only 144,000 people, literally, are going to heaven so most of them are going to hell and they still stay in the religion.
I'm not impressed with Christianity's impact on the world. It's done more harm, bloody, sick harm, than all the soup kitchens and clothing drives in the world will ever make up for.
edit on 2-2-2016 by areyousirius360 because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-2-2016 by areyousirius360 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 08:25 PM
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a reply to: Akragon

Now that's peculiar because I have a preserved word whole and complete right here in my hand. and You can buy them and get them for free.

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
Sorry but all those "many other things which Jesus did", do you see the words "IF THEY SHOULD BE" that tells you that they weren't written.

BUT

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Go get yourself a whole complete preserved Bible. If you can't find one I will be more than happy to send you one free.
edit on 2-2-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 08:34 PM
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a reply to: areyousirius360

and what does any of what you just said have to do with answering the question or dealing with the ORIGINAL TEXTS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT?

Totally off topic
edit on 2-2-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 08:54 PM
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edit on 2-2-2016 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 09:40 PM
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a reply to: Cogito, Ergo SumWe definitely don't know the source of creation of ourselves or the universe, but nothing self creates. I don't know who created God either or even for certain that he exists. Reasonably believe, not absolutely. Anyone who thinks they know the methods of universal creation and life is lying.



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 09:52 PM
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originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo SumWe definitely don't know the source of creation of ourselves or the universe, but nothing self creates. I don't know who created God either or even for certain that he exists. Reasonably believe, not absolutely. Anyone who thinks they know the methods of universal creation and life is lying.



I just got through editing my post, because I figured it probably wasn't worthwhile posing such questions to believers (they were genuine questions though).

We evolved from other species. Every biological form on earth shares a common ancestor. We don't know how it began, but abiogenesis hypotheses look promising. Of course they won't rule out the possibility of a god (neither does evolution). They certainly don't rule it in.

No one claims to know how or why our universe exists. It might have always existed. We have good idea of what type of event occurred when the universe as we presently observe and understand it, began.

There might well be some force or whatever behind existence (that we are incapable of detecting scientifically at the moment). It also doesn't seem inconceivable that people could have personal relationship with such a thing, if it exists. It seems quite doubtful the god we have been given through religious dogma, created by men, is it though.



edit on 2-2-2016 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: for the heck of it



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 10:17 PM
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a reply to: Cogito, Ergo SumIm not a believer im a person. You don't know the origins of life or the universe, nobody does.
You can type til your fingers hurt, it has never been learned and is impossible without a time machine. The earth is older than us, all we can do is guess where it came from.
And to be fair, where did the big bang come from? Who/what caused it? What was the succession of animals created by the primordial ooze. What caused evolution? How where the pyramids built?
All questions that will not be answered by humans ever. Deal with it.



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 10:20 PM
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a reply to: Cogito, Ergo SumJust read the last half of your post, that I agree with totally.



posted on Feb, 2 2016 @ 10:28 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn


Go get yourself a whole complete preserved Bible. If you can't find one I will be more than happy to send you one free.


Thanks but I have a couple bibles kickin around... including an ESV, NIV.. ASV... and one I got as a child called "the good news bible"... Personally I prefer the KJV

And in any case all versions are available here... which I use

www.biblegateway.com...




posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 12:20 AM
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originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo SumIm not a believer im a person.

Then the questions originally posed (and then edited), don't concern you. They were explicitly directed to believers in the christian deity. The notion that believers and people are different, mutually exclusive things, is a bit silly. That they would also be people goes without saying.


You don't know the origins of life or the universe, nobody does.

Of course. There are lots of things we don't know. No one knows ultimately whether it had an origin (the universe that is). In it's current state, it appears to have begun around 13.8 billion years ago. We are not without any idea at all regarding them though (abiogenesis for example) and science is slowly getting there.


You can type til your fingers hurt, it has never been learned and is impossible without a time machine.

Thanks for your permission. A time machine might be helpful but isn't a necessity re understanding how the earth formed. Beyond that, it is unlikely to help you understand something for which time and space don't exist.


The earth is older than us, all we can do is guess where it came from.

Perhaps all you can do is guess. Have a chat with a cosmologist. They can do a bit better than that.


And to be fair, where did the big bang come from? Who/what caused it?

No one knows as of yet. As it is looks likely that time, space and the principles of nature as we know them also didn't exist, the question itself might be irrelevant. Human logic certainly didn't exist. There are also other explanations for our universe.


What was the succession of animals created by the primordial ooze.

No reason to suppose anything was "created", but this info can be found in most biology textbooks and many places on the internet.


What caused evolution?

Random genetic mutations, natural selection, genetic drift, geographic isolation. No doubt some biologists on these boards can give you more if you wish.


How where the pyramids built?

There are all sorts of possibilities there, though it is doubtful that anyone knows for sure. They were built obviously with what the Egyptians had available to them though.


All questions that will not be answered by humans ever. Deal with it.

Some of your questions do have very good explanations already. As more become available, you don't have to deal with that at all, you can continue to let the rest of the modern world pass you by.



edit on 3-2-2016 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: for the heck of it



posted on Feb, 3 2016 @ 08:03 AM
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a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum
What concerns me is not your concern.
I'm not into evolution, it is an incomplete theory at best. Some of my questions have explanation but not definite answers. More guessing, passed off as truth.
Just like religion.




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