FBI Release full unedited video of Finicum shooting

a reply to: Discotech

There's no doubt he's reaching, however we don't know WHY he is reaching.

So just ignore Finicum's own words about rather dying than going to prison, and the threats of violence?
He is reaching for his gun. Anybody that has carried can see that. It's blatantly obvious.
In the end, it doesn't matter why he was reaching, all it took was the reaching (though he was going for his gun, that isn't conjecture..especially coupled with his own words which his actions proved)

But keep denying....I've said more than enough of my little piece.
I'm out.

originally posted by: TorqueyThePig
a reply to: imitator

I guess we all see what we want to see huh?

Yep:

To me, it looks like when push came to shove Finicum was the only one who came good on his threat of being prepared to die.

If I was going to guess, in his mind he probably sped off to get the people out of harms way before he enacted his little suicide mission, which would fit in with why he had his arms raised when he first exited the vehicle.

a reply to: Jakal26

I was referring to a kid, getting shot for holding a toy-gun in his hand.

Did you see him holding a weapon? No direct thread then, was he? Some capable crisis prevention actors should've been able to deescalate the whole situation after weeks of protest, which they obviously didn't. Road blocks is all you've got?

I blaim the police state actors for their incompetence and hope they don't get through with this. Murder, that's what I see. And please skip the pre-crime BS. His statements may explain why he had the guts to leave the car, probably hoping they would spare the others then. And nope, it doesn't justify an execution either.

a reply to: Jakal26

But that's the thing, we don't know IF the cops shot at him while he had his hands up to then make him reach. That makes his motives for reaching entirely relevant.

Not saying they did shoot either intentionally or accidentally but it's possible if we go off some of the witness accounts all of which seem to be different.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion

I blaim the police state actors for their incompetence and hope they don't get through with this. Murder, that's what I see. And please skip the pre-crime BS. His statements may explain why he had the guts to leave the car, probably hoping they would spare the others then. And nope, it doesn't justify an execution either.

Something about keeping your hands up didn't seem to register with this guy. You put a lot of assumptions into the situation. Can you honestly say that if he exited the vehicle and did as the officer directed he would have still been shot?

a reply to: Phage

Bundy wasn't shot in the arm then? I thought he was. Heck... there were enough bullets in the car, which was obviously another imminent thread to them. They surrendered after beeing fired upon, didn't they?

Trigger happy anyone?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

Something about keeping your hands up didn't seem to register with this guy.

Not to be funny, but did you not notice Finicum do a little dance before his hands went down.... do you know what causes that?



Gunshots

a reply to: Discotech

There's no audio so we can't hear gunshots.

originally posted by: imitator
LaVoy Finicum will be a martyr, and after it's all said and done they will build large bronze statue of him holding a shotgun in one hand a copy of the Constitution in the other. He will be looking up at the sky in defiance to these bastards...

And I will own a miniature of that very statue.

I see two possibilities here without the audio based on his immediate action, both of which were mentioned but I will rehash them anyways.

1) He was asked to remove his firearm, assuming it was visible to them. Upon reaching to do so he was immediately shot because the FED already had this scenario ready to play out the way they wanted it, and this angle is the only thing they will ever release. So they tell him to disarm, he begins to comply and is put down like an animal by the thugs of the Federal Mafia.

2) He came out with his hands up, was immediately shot center mass/gut and simply dropped his hands in reaction, and they continued to fire upon him.

Either one is the more likely case, because when you receive a sudden pain or injury, much of the time your body instinctively moves your hands there to gauge the pain/injury.

For instance, most people, when punched hard in the gut, immediately put their hands over their stomach in response to that pain. This is firmly what I believe happened. Since the Thugs with badges already had a narrative spun using his own words against him, they knew the propaganda machine would have the mainstream population taking the bait instantly without question.

But we do question on here, especially when the evidence has not been provided 100%. We need audio, or at least ground level video which I think they also have on file.

He could have jumped out of his truck with his gun blazing seeking cover if he wanted to fight. If he came out with his hands up, they did not see that fitting the pre-scripted execution they were planning. This only emboldens me more, because now I know they are lying, and expect me to accept it.

Narrative not accepted.

I'll bet anything that the cops shot him while he had his hands up, probably wounding him, not mortally at first, at which point he either reached to cover the gunshot which was hurting like hell, or reached for a weapon. And until I see a video from the ground with synced, clear audio, there's not a damn thing ANYONE can say here that will convince me otherwise. Betcha we never ever see THAT video with audio, so it can be determined when exactly the first shot was fired. BUT ONE THING IS DAMN CLEAR: He did not fire the first shot, the cops did, even without the audio you can tell.

Furthermore, was anyone firing from the truck? They tore that thing apart with bullets and flashbangs or something. And what the hell cop flings himself in front of a truck as it's moving towards him, about to run him over?

MURDERING BASTARDS.

a reply to: AmericanRealist

1) He was asked to remove his firearm, assuming it was visible to them.

Nonsense. He would have been ordered to the ground before anything.

For instance, most people, when punched hard in the gut, immediately put their hands over their stomach in response to that pain.

Not if they're dead.

He could have jumped out of his truck with his gun blazing seeking cover if he wanted to fight.

He wanted to die rather than be captured. He said so himself.

a reply to: onequestion

Exactly and when we can't even identify who shot him, there's no way we can begin to identify how many shots happened either during he had his hands up or when he reached.

a reply to: onequestion

I never said anything about audio.....

a reply to: Discotech

What about the witness testimony of them firing shots into and at the vehicle before and after it stopped?

Something fishy is going on.

originally posted by: imitator

Not to be funny, but did you not notice Finicum do a little dance before his hands went down.... do you know what causes that?

Good one... hehe

I do not see the cop moving much as in making him dance. I have read that this guy has been a radical within the camp though. We will see as others in the camp speak out about this guy who I suspect went there with very aggressive ideals and wasn't shy to express them. There has been many other shot for lessor reasons in situations where the cops sees an extreme situation. Maybe the cop didn't truly need to fire his gun, but a split decision n this case warranted it due to the the whole situation at large.

I'm saying this from a guy that has posted many negative posts about the too quick reactions from cops lately, but in this case the guy was stupid to say the lease.

Go back in my post history and you will see me slam many of these cases we have debated on ATS, so I'm not on the cops side in a blind way.

There's a question we may never be able to answer:
1) Was he reaching to shoot or to suicide-by-cop?

But frankly he was probably a lawless man who just wanted to do his own thing--like most of them--and maybe shoot some cops when he exited this life. Thankfully he didn't and was killed before he could.

I guess it depends on what or who you think these people are. I think most of us think they're lawless and maybe crazy. Therefore, he's clearly reaching to shoot some cops. But some of us think they're rugged cowboy versions of many of us. You know? The fisherman who've lost jobs because of government regulation. Or a farmer who lost his business because big corporations and taxes killed it. On and on. People who opposed the Patriot Act on the grounds it wasn't constitutional. Etc. This doesn't mean he wouldn't shoot cops, but even a rugged cowboy has to have some respect for the laws of the land and for the life of another person?

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Discotech

What about the witness testimony of them firing shots into and at the vehicle before and after it stopped?

Something fishy is going on.

That seems to be dying about as fast as the the suggestion he had his hands up the whole time. This is one thing that will have proof one way or the other though.

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
there's not a damn thing ANYONE can say here that will convince me otherwise

We have already seen you are not interested in any facts...

after the wanton execution...
They just murdered the guy in cold blood...
Apparently he was dragged out of the car and shot execution style while on his knees with his hands over his head...
The Feds just murdered a guy...

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: AmericanRealist

Nonsense. He would have been ordered to the ground before anything.

And this is why I am leaning in the direction of #2

For instance, most people, when punched hard in the gut, immediately put their hands over their stomach in response to that pain .Not if they're dead.

I have never heard of somebody die instantly from a gut shot. In fact many survive it depending on what, if any organs were hit. Most who die bleed out. But they still reach down to the source of pain.

He could have jumped out of his truck with his gun blazing seeking cover if he wanted to fight. He wanted to die rather than be captured. He said so himself.

And I am certain at some point in your life you have angrily spoken about harming or killing someone who has recently annoyed, insulted, or threatened you as well. I see you are posting online with your freedom, so I will assume you never fulfilled this statement. Some people can become very rational upon being ACTUALLY confronted with death.

I say the words he spoke gave them all the ammo they needed to pass an execution as self defense in the press to those who willfully want to hear it. Poor choice, but it still appears to me he changed his mind, but they refused to change the script.