FBI Release full unedited video of Finicum shooting

For those that would rather read than listen to Victoria Sharp's testimony, here's a transcript:

northwestlibertynews.com...

She claims they were fired upon when the truck first stopped, and that is why Lavoy took off again... At that time, Ryan Bundy got out of the truck - not sure if he was shot before or while leaving the vehicle. I think it is not being disputed by anyone that he was in fact shot, so this would indicate that the truck was fired upon during the first stop...

a reply to: Informer1958
'Why didn't the police just go to the compound and arrested him, they certainly knew where he was for three weeks? The police were always welcome at their compound at any time. Something isn't right about this.'

Shades of WACO.
Also, can someone explain these observations please?

The truck drives in the right hand lane for 4 minutes before leaving the road to the left. There are already tyre marks in the snow (probably motorbikes but you can see them at 9:20) where the police/fbi guy appears from on the LEFT. How did they know the truck would suddenly change lanes? Is hiding behind the bushes standard procedure? Did he know the truck would be stopping there and not on the right-hand side of the road?
At 9:32 check the same fbi/police shooter. He's aiming at the guy who got out of the truck, but also at his own team. Would he risk a shot at that angle when he could slip over in the snow?

originally posted by: uktorah
a reply to: Informer1958
'Why didn't the police just go to the compound and arrested him, they certainly knew where he was for three weeks? The police were always welcome at their compound at any time. Something isn't right about this.'

Multiple public threats were made that any attempt of apprehension would be met with violent resistance. There is nothing confusing about this. The idea was to wait until the perceived leadership could be isolated to ensure a minimum of collateral damage.

The truck drives in the right hand lane for 4 minutes before leaving the road to the left. There are already tyre marks in the snow (probably motorbikes but you can see them at 9:20) where the police/fbi guy appears from on the LEFT. How did they know the truck would suddenly change lanes? Is hiding behind the bushes standard procedure? Did he know the truck would be stopping there and not on the right-hand side of the road?

Take environment into consideration. You can be sure that the authorities did. Unless you think they just place roadblocks haphazardly or just wherever.

At 9:32 check the same fbi/police shooter. He's aiming at the guy who got out of the truck, but also at his own team. Would he risk a shot at that angle when he could slip over in the snow?

Would he risk it? Well, that really depends on the how the situation progresses. Tactically, it's best to triangulate onto your target (IE: have multiple LOS's on target if at all possible), sometimes crossing into a friendly line of sight is impossible to avoid. Situational awareness is absolutely critical when using these advanced tactics.

A bit off topic from the post I just responded to. The guy who attempted to place a stop stick (at least that's what I assume he was trying to do) was brave as hell. That truck could have hit him. The conditions were a little dangerous to attempt that.

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
a reply to: Phage

pfft. Don't defend me. Defend the fricken truth. And no one has the truth yet. Except the dead guy and the murdering scum.

Let me get this straight. 'No one has the truth yet', but you still call them 'murdering scum'?

You people just can't see this objectively.

They fled one traffic stop and tried to get around another.

They (almost) hit a cop while trying to avoid the second traffic stop.

The driver exits the vehicle, stumbles around a bit, and keeps moving his hands from the air to his waist.

After a couple of hand movements, the driver reaches again to his waist where he is then shot by Police.

I think the video shows quite clearly that the driver was in the wrong. The police had reason to believe that the suspects were armed and dangerous, and it's the driver's fault for stumbling around while moving his arms near his waist. He wouldn't be dead if he had remained in his car or laid on the snow instead of doing what he did.

originally posted by: daaskapital

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
a reply to: Phage

pfft. Don't defend me. Defend the fricken truth. And no one has the truth yet. Except the dead guy and the murdering scum.

Let me get this straight. 'No one has the truth yet', but you still call them 'murdering scum'?

You people just can't see this objectively.

They fled one traffic stop and tried to get around another.

They (almost) hit a cop while trying to avoid the second traffic stop.

The driver exits the vehicle, stumbles around a bit, and keeps moving his hands from the air to his waist.

After a couple of hand movements, the driver reaches again to his waist where he is then shot by Police.

I think the video shows quite clearly that the driver was in the wrong. The police had reason to believe that the suspects were armed and dangerous, and it's the driver's fault for stumbling around while moving his arms near his waist. He wouldn't be dead if he had remained in his car or laid on the snow instead of doing what he did.

1) The officer jumped towards the vehicle when it swerved around the road block

2) There is no way to know when shots were first fired without audio or enough clarity in the video to see muzzle flashes or actions on weapons moving

3) You just did what you criticized others of doing, stating things as if they were fact when you can't know without additional information.

a reply to: Discotech

Are we sure its a helicopter and not a drone? Blacking out certain info on screen makes sense if its a drone.

originally posted by: daaskapital

You people just can't see this objectively.

They fled one traffic stop and tried to get around another.

They (almost) hit a cop while trying to avoid the second traffic stop.

The driver exits the vehicle, stumbles around a bit, and keeps moving his hands from the air to his waist.

After a couple of hand movements, the driver reaches again to his waist where he is then shot by Police.

I think the video shows quite clearly that the driver was in the wrong. The police had reason to believe that the suspects were armed and dangerous, and it's the driver's fault for stumbling around while moving his arms near his waist. He wouldn't be dead if he had remained in his car or laid on the snow instead of doing what he did.

Exactly.

I'm not sure why there is this growing contingent of people who don't think they are subject to consequences when they do things. I mean even those guys who took over the federal building just thought it was alright to drive around like they were above the law and nothing was going to happen. It's like some people feel as if they shouldn't be held to the same standards as everyone else.

Did they think the authorities were going to treat them any different than any other possible threat? The video was pretty clear that the guy was acting in a provocative way.

a reply to: daaskapital

...OR, if he had just simply stayed home in his 'cozy' little closed community of Colorado City, Az replete with religious extremist, welfare sucking, tax evading, pedophiles. A town with endemic clinical (and proven) mental disorders as a result of having a population of nearly 4,000...80% of which are related to just two men.

How amazing the difference in perceptions!

Here we have Finicum, a man who lived off the government teat ... for years ... who broke the law, endangered others, assaulted LEOs ... and he is held by many to be a patriot.

Of course he was rural rather than urban ... so ... that apparently makes this completely different.

Sometimes the blatant double-standards are simply too much to bear.

originally posted by: GD21D

Did they think the authorities were going to treat them any different than any other possible threat? The video was pretty clear that the guy was acting in a provocative way.

I would answer this with a resounding YES ... they did think that they would be treated differently. And they were.

LEOs took every measure they could to insure that there were no casualties, but despite their best efforts, there were.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
How amazing the difference in perceptions!

Here we have Finicum, a man who lived off the government teat ... for years ... who broke the law, endangered others, assaulted LEOs ... and he is held by many to be a patriot.

Of course he was rural rather than urban ... so ... that apparently makes this completely different.

Sometimes the blatant double-standards are simply too much to bear.

I think the guy was an idiot... but I dont see why this had to end with anybody dead, the police and FBI could have ended this any number of ways... and instead decided to do it in a heavy handed manner... true it was better than a waco or ruby ridge...but not by much.

Unless the troopers dashcam/body camera videos are released we have nothing but each side seeing what they want to see. Releasing this video accomplished nothing, the only way this could have gone well for the FED is to bring everyone in alive... they didnt... so that makes it a failed operation.

a reply to: Irishhaf

The FBI, Oregon State Police, and probably County Deputies took great measures to make these arrests as peacefully and with as little danger to the citizens of Oregon as possible.

Mr. Finicum would have none of that.

I agree that folks will see what they want to see, but that is human nature, and not easily overcome.

I do not agree that this was a failed operation, nor do I agree that everyone had to be brought in alive. Finicum told us, repeatedly, that he would not be.

The fact that the whole lot of them are not dead is actually pretty amazing, and suggests to me that the leadership (Bundy) probably arranged the whole thing with the LEOs to end the silliness while still maintaining "face."

Somehow this post went into the whole quote thing. My replies are in there too. Sorry.

originally posted by: GD21D

originally posted by: uktorah
a reply to: Informer1958
'Why didn't the police just go to the compound and arrested him, they certainly knew where he was for three weeks? The police were always welcome at their compound at any time. Something isn't right about this.'

"Multiple public threats were made that any attempt of apprehension would be met with violent resistance. There is nothing confusing about this. The idea was to wait until the perceived leadership could be isolated to ensure a minimum of collateral damage."

My comment was 'Shades of WACO'. Was everyone there a perceived leader?

The truck drives in the right hand lane for 4 minutes before leaving the road to the left. There are already tyre marks in the snow (probably motorbikes but you can see them at 9:20) where the police/fbi guy appears from on the LEFT. How did they know the truck would suddenly change lanes? Is hiding behind the bushes standard procedure? Did he know the truck would be stopping there and not on the right-hand side of the road?

"Take environment into consideration. You can be sure that the authorities did. Unless you think they just place roadblocks haphazardly or just wherever."

The environment was deep snow either side of the standard roadblock. He had no reason to change lanes.

At 9:32 check the same fbi/police shooter. He's aiming at the guy who got out of the truck, but also at his own team. Would he risk a shot at that angle when he could slip over in the snow?

"Would he risk it? Well, that really depends on the how the situation progresses. Tactically, it's best to triangulate onto your target (IE: have multiple LOS's on target if at all possible), sometimes crossing into a friendly line of sight is impossible to avoid. Situational awareness is absolutely critical when using these advanced tactics."

No-one crossed into the line of site. He came from a set position (stage left?) which would always have meant a shot towards his own team.

"A bit off topic from the post I just responded to. The guy who attempted to place a stop stick (at least that's what I assume he was trying to do) was brave as hell. That truck could have hit him. The conditions were a little dangerous to attempt that."

From almost every single dash cam footage shown on tv, most police jump OUT of the way of oncoming vehicles, not in front of them. He wouldn't need to throw out a Stinger (UK for stop stick) because the truck had no chance of getting past the roadblock - it would either hit one of the other vehicles or the snow bank. Either way it would have stopped (as was shown in the video).

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Releasing this video accomplished nothing,

It accomplished that he was not dragged from his truck and executed like some people claimed.... it shows he went for his gun then was shot.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Releasing this video accomplished nothing,

It accomplished that he was not dragged from his truck and executed like some people claimed.... it shows he went for his gun then was shot.

Technically, he may be right. Reading the narrative of this thread, it seems some still want to believe that he was executed in cold blood and are making up assumptions to try to discount the video. Or questioning obvious things in the video like they aren't that obvious.

a reply to: hellobruce

there is no way you can say that with 100% certainty.. as I said.. both sides are seeing what they want to see.

a reply to: hellobruce

That's the problem. You can't prove he went for his gun or clutched a gun shot wound from this footage. Until footage with audio or higher resolution is released, we can't know when the first shots were fired.

He may have reached for his pocket then got shot. He may have got shot with his hands up then reached for his gun or to clutch the wound on his abdomen.

More video with audio and an autopsy are needed before any of us really can make more definitive statements.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yes they did, and for the most part I think they conducted things correctly..

there was no danger to the citizens of oregon, they took over a place pretty far removed from innocents.

they could have set up a siege, block reporters from going in... turned off water and power and let them sit there cold and afraid till they said screw it and came out.

the rest is not directed at you in particular Gryphon

Its been interesting watching the reactions to this and compare it to left wing reactions to rioters in baltimore and fergusen.

A bunch of my left leaning friends were calling for drone strikes within 24 hours of the militia taking over the remote building, yet at the same time during the riots that put many lives at risk and did millions of dollars of damage they wanted the police to stay hands off and not hurt any of the rioters..

Also seen many of my right leaning friends... calling for the national guard during the riots... and wanting the fed to let the militia do whatever..

not sure what to make of it all... beyond I am losing hope for the country.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Of course there was danger to the citizens of Oregon ... these armed men were using State roads, stores, facilities, etc.

Now you're just hypothesizing about alternate scenarios. Do you have a military or law enforcement background? (I don't mean that to be snide, I'm curious.)

The rest is not directed at you personally Irishhaf ...

Indeed, the differences between Banks and Ferguson point clearly to the ideological divide that is being implemented on the American people. It's stunning how the same people see the same situations so differently.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yup 18 years military, 10+ active duty rest as a full time reservist... many people ive worked with and kept touch with left the military to work atf, and fbi, and marshals service... they are mostly where I got my approach to this.

Main reason I feel they needed to bring folks in alive is just that the militia movement is something many people ignore but it is real, these guys and gals typically are well organized and armed.. you dont want to give them a martyr. ( despite what I just said I feel this effort in Oregon was not well planned)

reality of the situation doesn't matter, just the perception; in the last decade or so in every aspect of life perception seems to carry more weight than truth. (in my opinion)

I dunno... ultimately while I feel for the Hammonds (I think they got screwed), this take over was ill thought out, barely planned with no cohesive direction. They deserved jail time no doubt... I still didnt see anything that deserved a death sentence.