Y Combinator Posthaven Basic Income Request For Research

Source: Y Combinator Posthaven

We’d like to fund a study on basic income—i.e., giving people enough money to live on with no strings attached. I’ve been intrigued by the idea for a while, and although there’s been a lot of discussion, there’s fairly little data about how it would work

This is a 5 year research effort that will fund basic subsistence for a small group of people and study them. I found this quite intriguing. Basically they are studying ways to prevent the collapse of society once AI and robotics supplants a hoard of suddenly unemployable masses. I can see the Bernie fans coming already.

a reply to: machineintelligence

So can I about the Bernie fans.

And in a future time this is exactly what might need to be done. Currently all it would do is cause people to sit home and not do anything with their lives, or upset people when they find out they are no longer getting a basic income............

It seems to me that not only is a future where current labor needs are met with AI, there is absolutely no way to know what that environment will look like. Not that you shouldn't "prepare"....because being adept through preparedness can never hurt, even when its not what you prepared for.

But all that being considered, the malleability of our species will ensure that we aren't a giant biological mass just sitting around on the planet. Even if what occupies our time, when assessed now, seems trivial and meaningless, we will find a way to live a rewarding life.

Which is part of a concern I have. Humans, at least right now, seem all to willing to cede themselves and their will. An example of a future I could see is one where humans volunteer to trade their bodies for a lifetime of unconscious bliss, escaping from the humdrum daily life in this mundane world.

There's nothing original about this idea - dictatorships have tried to put people in a box guaranteeing basic sustenance for a long time just to keep them quiet. Well quiet they are not. Eventually, someone in the box wakes up to the fact that there's a lot more to this world than baked macaroni and a bottle of beer for dinner.

On a more practical level, who guarantees this lifestyle? Obviously, it's the people outside the box who generate the capital to keep these people in the box.

This is the type of social engineering that people come with when they have too much time on their hands, too much money and no brains to figure out that the human race survives because it is continually challenged. You do no favors to anyone by taking away that opportunity.

a reply to: gpols

I disagree, if people's basic needs are met, I think you'll find more people enthusiastic about working. Once food, shelter and health care is taken care of, all money earned is actually yours to use and not spent just surviving.

More people will be able to afford college, full time jobs will no longer be necessary, which means everyone can work 20 hours or so to give themselves a bit above basic, or to help pay for college, or pay bills for things like internet or a car. Once people are working 20 hours for a net gain, they'll do so enthusiastically. Even the laziest SOB will be willing to work a few hours a week for a net gain.

The problem is, no one wants to work 40 hours+ by one job or two back to back, just to afford a basic living.

a reply to: Puppylove

The problem is, no one wants to work 40 hours+ by one job or two back to back, just to afford a basic living.

The thing is:
You can't always get what you want.
But if you try,
Sometimes,
You can get what you need.

a reply to: Phage



I prefer this video. I also think it speaks more to the topic at hand because I imagine a future of people living in apartment buildings, being bribed to clean up their buildings for extra cash. While artists and the charismatic are the rich ones. Much like in Cuba.

A very dark black future indeed.

a reply to: gpols

I also think it speaks more to the topic at hand because I imagine a future of people living in apartment buildings, being bribed to clean up their buildings for extra cash.

You are free to imagine what you wish.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: gpols
You are free to imagine what you wish.

But we are not free to imagine our own facts.

a reply to: gpols
You have future facts?
That's awesome.

I imagine a future of people living in apartment buildings, b...

a reply to: Phage

A life spent doing nothing but struggling for needs simply isn't worth living. What's the point of human advancement if we're still struggling for basic survival like a common beast? We can do better than this.

Is about time we move past the basic struggle for survival, and instead focus on advancing the species as our first priority.

Time for the human species to start living.

a reply to: Puppylove

A life spent doing nothing but struggling for needs simply isn't worth living.

Tell that to our hunter/gatherer ancestors. They did pretty well by us, I think.

Is about time we move past the basic struggle for survival, and instead focus on advancing the species as our first priority.

Remove competition? Make everyone equal? No incentive to do better? No. That does not lead to "advancement". It leads to decadence.

a reply to: Phage

Basic needs does not remove competition, it just makes competition rewarded with positive reinforcement rather than threat of punishment.

Who do you know that would truly be content to sit on their ass with nothing but a roof and a meal?

I don't think having a roof and food would make humanity say, "we're good, screw working" I mean crap could you imagine a kid today living without their iphone and internet?

We don't need working for basic survival as an incentive to work. That's working due to threat of punishment and death if you don't. Whereas if that's taken care of, people have security, and thus are instead working for wants, for reward.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I read the researcher criteria and it contains information elements I suspect are for commercial proposes. So many people will fill out these forms they will make money on consumer modeling data mining of the raw data. I will not be involved because I am too suspect of the motivations and intents of the people making this offer. Just to fully disclose my position.

a reply to: machineintelligence

I would immediately put all my resources into learning how to program robots, or anything robot related.

a reply to: Puppylove

Who do you know that would truly be content to sit on their ass with nothing but a roof and a meal?

More than a few come to mind. Workers' comp claims can provide pretty sweet cash flow.

We don't need working for basic survival as an incentive to work. That's working due to threat of punishment and death if you don't.

What sort of punishment? You mean not paying your debts?
Death? No, that's not really a factor unless you're really far gone.

originally posted by: machineintelligence
Source: Y Combinator Posthaven

We’d like to fund a study on basic income—i.e., giving people enough money to live on with no strings attached. I’ve been intrigued by the idea for a while, and although there’s been a lot of discussion, there’s fairly little data about how it would work

This is a 5 year research effort that will fund basic subsistence for a small group of people and study them. I found this quite intriguing. Basically they are studying ways to prevent the collapse of society once AI and robotics supplants a hoard of suddenly unemployable masses. I can see the Bernie fans coming already.

I found this statement to be intriguing.

50 years from now, I think it will seem ridiculous that we used fear of not being able to eat as a way to motivate people

a reply to: Puppylove

Nature had a brilliant idea - it's called survival of the fittest. Helping your fellow man/woman is a necessary part of social structure - we all need a boost at one time or another. But it's the person who takes the ball and runs with it who succeeds.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can feed himself for a lifetime".

Beyond the obvious, there's still another big problem with this model: who pays for it? If you put people inside that box that I described above with no rules, no incentives and no mandatory constraints (i.e. you can't sit on your ass all day), the learning curve of survival will be flat. Do you allow the fat, dumb and happy crowd to capitalize on the generosity of the box supporters?

And who defines "basic needs"?

Here's a better idea. Teach them to fish.

There is a waiting list for refugees looking to work as milk maids in Sweden and Swedish field hands have more work in the summer months. Then there are non covert jobs like Shypmate where one can enjoy recreational travel while making affordable international delivery to poor nations a reality.

a reply to: Slichter

Nice udders shown there.