LaVoy Finicum (BUNDY) was NOT shot with his hands up! He charged at LEO's. (from others arrested)

a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

The government cannot just usurp land at their leisure, without going through the proper channels as the rest of us.

Oh crap. That garbage? Really?
It is Bundy who "usurped" federal land by not paying his lease fees.

a reply to: GeisterFahrer

No the Hammonds repeatedly lighting fires after being told they could not and one finally getting away from them did.

yeah, lightning caused one fire, and they had a burn permit for the other.

They had been harrassed by BLM for ... years ....

a reply to: GeisterFahrer
Which has nothing to do with Bundy.
Bundy used the Hammonds.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

Yes a normal reaction when you see a pickup coming straight for you, you try and get out of the way. Your freeze is at the same time he is swerving, he moves as the truck moves.

Watch the video and stop trying to be cute. He jumped IN FRONT of the vehicle in the video.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: GeisterFahrer
Which has nothing to do with Bundy.

Everything to do with Bundy. You snooze, you lose. No Hammond prison sentence, no Bundy showing up and taking siege in a refuge.

And the Feds used Finicum as an example to any other person who might take siege in a refuge to protest their land grabbing. You know .. put the fear in the peasants.

Comply or die.

I mean, that was the message I got from this.

a reply to: GeisterFahrer

No Hammond prison sentence, no Bundy showing up and taking siege in a refuge.

As I said, Bundy used the Hammonds.

And the Feds used Finicum as an example to any other person who might take siege in a refuge to protest their land grabbing.

No. The feds killed a man who posed a very real threat. A man who was known to carry weapons. A man who had said he would rather die than go to prison.

a reply to: GeisterFahrer

Comply or die.

I mean, that was the message I got from this.

A good plan. When surrounded by armed law enforcement.
Unless of course, you want to die.

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer
Comply or die.

I mean, that was the message I got from this.

That is the funny thing about perception, it's different from person to person..

The message I got from this is if you say you arent afraid to die, carry guns, make a series of aggressive moves then get out of a truck and multiple times reach for your belt while the police have guns drawn on you then chances are its going to play out really bad .

a reply to: Phage

I'm with Phage on this one (not that he needs any help).

The Hammonds disasociated themselves with Bundy and his crowd BEFORE they occupied the refuge. This is Bundy and some of his screwball crew piling-on, being opportunists, for a cause not even cattle ranchers all sign up for. I know, I'm a cattle rancher.

There actually are some issues in the Hammond case which have merit, but Bundy and his ilk do not represent these issues...they have distorted them beyond comprehension with their twisted and delusional religious / soveriegn citizen interpretations. Any merit / credibility of the original cause has long since been lost.

a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

I am not trying to be cute, I have watched many times.
If you are standing in front of a pickup coming at you at X MPH, lets assume 40, would you stand there and wait and see what happens or make a decision? Both the agent and the pickup go the same way at the same time.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

No Hammond prison sentence, no Bundy showing up and taking siege in a refuge.

As I said, Bundy used the Hammonds.

And the Feds used Finicum as an example to any other person who might take siege in a refuge to protest their land grabbing.

No. The feds killed a man who posed a very real threat. A man who was known to carry weapons. A man who had said he would rather die than go to prison.

A man who tried to surrender to them but got executed with a shot from behind. A father of 11 children, with his arms in the air shouting he wasn't armed 9according to an eyewitness who thus far, is fairly credible).

a reply to: GeisterFahrer

Cool, more then two fires were the issue.
They did not have a permit for the one that got out of control, or by all means go ahead and show they did.

a reply to: GeisterFahrer

A man who tried to surrender to them but got executed with a shot from behind.

One does not try to surrender by running in a truck.
One does not try to surrender by leaving a vehicle without being told to do so.
One does not try to surrender by remaining standing.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

I am not trying to be cute, I have watched many times.
If you are standing in front of a pickup coming at you at X MPH, lets assume 40, would you stand there and wait and see what happens or make a decision? Both the agent and the pickup go the same way at the same time.

A normal person would have stayed behind the trucks where he was safe in the first place.

a reply to: Phage

Just ignore all that Phage, after you do that it will make sense.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

Cool, more then two fires were the issue.
They did not have a permit for the one that got out of control, or by all means go ahead and show they did.

I'll do better than that, I will even furbish the names of former BLM employees that have sided with the Hammonds, and have themselves, pointed out the abuse of the BLM.

Here you go:

www.tsln.com...

you are claiming they did not have a permit - they did - and even had the recorded phone conversation presented in court:

“They called and got permission to light the fire,” Dwight’s wife, Susan, said, adding that was customary for ranchers conducting range management burns – a common practice in the area. “We usually called the interagency fire outfit – a main dispatch – to be sure someone wasn’t in the way or that weather wouldn’t be a problem.” Susan said her son Steven was told that the BLM was conducting a burn of their own somewhere in the region the same day, and that they believed there would be no problem with the Hammonds going ahead with their planned fire. The court transcript includes a recording from that phone conversation.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

A man who tried to surrender to them but got executed with a shot from behind.

One does not try to surrender by running in a truck.
One does not try to surrender by leaving a vehicle without being told to do so.
One does not try to surrender by remaining standing.

One tries to surrender when raising their arms in the air and shouting they are unarmed. which, apparently, was all depicted in the video, and apparently, happened exactly the way the 18 year old inside the truck said it happened.

So there

a reply to: GeisterFahrer