Army Officer on Oregon Killing: 'This could be the First Shot of 2nd American Revolution'

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Actually the left doesn't really do that as much as the right does when the left is in power.

Actually, you're full of it. How old were you during the Bush years?

Talk of assassination and revolution was RAMPANT. Main stream media referred to the Bush admin as "The Bush regime". Multiple movies were made depicting the assassination of Bush.

I was in my fifties during the Bush years. I don't remember all the assassination movies, but I do remember a lot of people calling for him and his administration to be charged for the numerous crimes they committed. And rightly so, I might add!

On the other hand, the revolution that the author being interviewed was calling for, is fully under way. Even the author said that violence is and should be the last resort.

The revolution started with the election of Barack Obama when Hillary was the supposed "inevitable" candidate and it's fixing to take the next big step forward with the election of Bernie Sanders.

Change is coming to America, that much is for sure.

originally posted by: TheBulk
By what measure do right wingers talk of revolution? How are you making this determination?

By actual "revolutionary" groups forming with the intent of "protecting" themselves from the government based on partisan rhetoric.

Now you're claiming that Bush "strong armed" the media in to support him? Really? I remember a very unfriendly media that did all they could to support his opposition. I can give you pages worth of video clips to back that up too.

The media got more hostile the longer his Presidency went on, but you are a liar if you are going to claim that the media was hostile towards Bush his whole 8 years. Not to mention, the media point is irrelevant to what I'm talking about in regards to people ranting about revolution when their guy isn't in charge.

By the way, I was also in the military during his term, but I paid attention. It doesn't seem like you did.

Paid attention to what? I just proved you wrong about your point about there being multiple movies depicting the assassination of Bush.

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Actually the left doesn't really do that as much as the right does when the left is in power.

Actually, you're full of it. How old were you during the Bush years?

Talk of assassination and revolution was RAMPANT. Main stream media referred to the Bush admin as "The Bush regime". Multiple movies were made depicting the assassination of Bush.

What is the significance, to you, of the MSM using the title "The X regime" where X = a presidents name. I can find those same reference to Bush Sr, Clinton, Regan and so on.

Additionally what were those multiple movies that depicted the assassination of Bush?

From what the eyewitness quoted in the Oregonian said, this deluded nitwit tried to drive around the roadblock, got stuck in a ditch and then charged at the Federal agents and local cops. If he's the first martyr for the revolution then the collective IQ of the human race just inched upwards a tad.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
ETA: One more thing, you asked about society being civilized during two times of great war and conflict. War is the exact opposite of civilized mate.

That's ironic... Are we not in a perpetual state of war ? Cold war, war on terror, war on drugs.

I would say we're in an era of conflict thanks to the terror attacks and mass shootings we are beginning to regularly see, therefore is society civilised ?

Sure it's civil between you and I and many other normal civilians but the in grand scheme of things it's not civil at all on the geo political landscape and economic landscape.

originally posted by: Discotech
originally posted by: Krazysh0t
That's ironic... Are we not in a perpetual state of war ? Cold war, war on terror, war on drugs.

Did I claim we were civilized now?

I would say we're in an era of conflict thanks to the terror attacks and mass shootings we are beginning to regularly see, therefore is society civilised ?

Sure it's civil between you and I and many other normal civilians but the in grand scheme of things it's not civil at all on the geo political landscape and economic landscape.

Correct. It is pure arrogance to suggest that your society is civilized. That is a call that should be made by an outside source.

This video was done by an eye witness. I'm not vouching for it or anything, just posting it.



Here's The Oregonian newspaper account

I find it amazing how a small group of people can take over and occupy a federal building, make threats of violence if any kind of intercept is attempted, and then their supporters claim victim status when violence comes.

Here's a news flash.... If the federal government had any real intent to "execute" those guys every person in that vehicle would be dead right now. Period..... End of story.

I don't buy that the person killed was "executed" for one second.

I do think that the use of force by domestic security in general is getting out of hand, but context is important. These guys made public proclamations multiple times and were known to be well armed. You can be damn sure the police were going to be ready neutralize any threat at the first sign of possible violent intent.

originally posted by: GD21D
Here's a news flash.... If the federal government had any real intent to "execute" those guys every person in that vehicle would be dead right now. Period..... End of story.

I agree. I pointed that out earlier today, but it fell on deaf ears. One of the Bundy's was also shot. Yet somehow HE managed to survive the encounter. I'd think the feds would have a higher priority of executing the Bundy's versus this guy if they were trying to execute people.

I hear the reason that this goon had 11 foster kids was because the state of Arizona or some charity in the state paid him for every foster kid he took in

So he used foster kids as his source of income

Talk about milking the system!

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I never claimed you claimed, it was merely a question and highlighting the irony from the previous posters comments on society supposedly being civil now.

I'm surprised how cool the feds are playing this all out with the waiting game though, unless they're planning to move in at night ? But then why wouldn't they have moved in last night ?

I wonder how long the siege will continue, do the feds have any standard procedure for what length of time they're supposed to siege people dug in for ?

The media black out and defendyourbase's stream being offline is frustrating for wanting to know what's going on

a reply to: Krazysh0t

People should give more credit to law enforcement and federal agents. I know we are on a conspiracy site and all so it's expected, but I think a great deal of people would be surprised that a lot of LE and Federal Agents actually care about our rights and the Constitution.

Not to mention the last thing the Feds would want is to intentionally start a Revolution because they are the ones that are going to be tasked to help fight it.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: opethPA

Great, when are you posting the video to back up your claim since you were there or are you just jumping to conclusions because you dont trust the Govt?

Likewise.
It boils down to who do you trust.
The Federal government?
Not me my friend, not me.

As long as a Democrat is in charge, the government is good. As soon as a Republican gets back in, they'll be ranting about revolution again.

Actually the left doesn't really do that as much as the right does when the left is in power.

Actually it's more telling that many progressives are right here in this thread extolling the virtues of blasting these guys to kingdom come....but are consistently in every thread crying and moaning that it's "assassination" and "execution" and "an epidemic" every time a minority person gets shot for attacking someone.

Yes, that would be a good "actually".

a reply to: Discotech

I think this is all new territory for them actually. They are trying so hard not to repeat a Waco that they may be going too far in the other direction. In fact, I think they may be scared to pull the trigger on the raid. At least they arrested a bunch of these guys though.

a reply to: gpols

I think people are desperately trying to see things that aren't there, thus giving the benefit of the doubt to the police falls to the wayside.

originally posted by: muse7
I hear the reason that this goon had 11 foster kids was because the state of Arizona or some charity in the state paid him for every foster kid he took in

So he used foster kids as his source of income

Talk about milking the system!

oh look ! A totally random rumor that has nothing do with the event, the topic, or the thread.....but is certainly a nice way to slander somebody whose outlook differs from yours ! Excellent ! Keep 'em coming.

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: opethPA

Great, when are you posting the video to back up your claim since you were there or are you just jumping to conclusions because you dont trust the Govt?

Likewise.
It boils down to who do you trust.
The Federal government?
Not me my friend, not me.

As long as a Democrat is in charge, the government is good. As soon as a Republican gets back in, they'll be ranting about revolution again.

Actually the left doesn't really do that as much as the right does when the left is in power.

Actually it's more telling that many progressives are right here in this thread extolling the virtues of blasting these guys to kingdom come....but are consistently in every thread crying and moaning that it's "assassination" and "execution" and "an epidemic" every time a minority person gets shot for attacking someone.

Yes, that would be a good "actually".

I haven't seen any one in here "extolling the virtues of blasting these guys to kingdom come." In fact, progressives seem to just want these guys arrested. Hyperbole much?

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
From what the eyewitness quoted in the Oregonian said, this deluded nitwit tried to drive around the roadblock, got stuck in a ditch and then charged at the Federal agents and local cops. If he's the first martyr for the revolution then the collective IQ of the human race just inched upwards a tad.

And let's say for a minute, that the police and/or Feds did in fact act outside of the law - am I the only one who wouldn't be shocked?

Police and federal agencies murdering innocent people after they've been in custody or have their hands up, and are still shot and killed? ... you don't say, I could provide numerous examples of just that, yet everyone is loosing their minds over this.

I can pull up YouTube videos of kids being shot and killed for possessing cannabis, no one gives a ^*%*, but when a group of armed individuals seize control of property that isn't theirs for three weeks, and are treated as such - here come the moral crusaders.

I would not be surprised if the Feds/police acted outside the law, and are covering it up, but this isn't even the case.

These people make "revolutionaries," look like clowns. Gives a bad name to us Americans who value such things as The Constitution and know more clauses than just the 2nd, and how our civil rights have been pissed on for decades.

People comparing this to Waco, Ruby Ridge... I just don't even know what to say. If these comparisons to be accurate, then it's safe to assume these men are of a cult, yes? It appears to be that way, martyrdom is an honorable feat - but this?

"I need donations 4 mah family plz send snacks"

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: opethPA

Great, when are you posting the video to back up your claim since you were there or are you just jumping to conclusions because you dont trust the Govt?

Likewise.
It boils down to who do you trust.
The Federal government?
Not me my friend, not me.

As long as a Democrat is in charge, the government is good. As soon as a Republican gets back in, they'll be ranting about revolution again.

Actually the left doesn't really do that as much as the right does when the left is in power.

Actually it's more telling that many progressives are right here in this thread extolling the virtues of blasting these guys to kingdom come....but are consistently in every thread crying and moaning that it's "assassination" and "execution" and "an epidemic" every time a minority person gets shot for attacking someone.

Yes, that would be a good "actually".

Who is advocating "blasting them to kingdom come?"

I've been following this thread closely, and have not seen that phrase used by another poster than yourself.

No one - has suggested what you yourself have suggested. Stop pigeon-holing yourself.

Even if it comes out that the Feds killed this guy in cold blood. It will not be the start of a second American Revolution. There will never be a second American Revolution. The American Revolution happened in the 1700's, against an enemy that was across an ocean, over the relatively small area of the thirteen colonies.

America today is vastly bigger than it was during the Revolution. It would be impossible to gain the support of a majority of different thinking people in fifty states. People who are mostly happy to be plugged in and tuned out. The situation is completely different than in 1776.

The two major public political powers in the US. Are the left and the right. Neither are united enough to stand together on all things. The most that can happen out of this situation if it continues to go bad. Is the formation of many small rogue militia armies that will fight the federal government. That are at most loosely affiliated. With each having things that they want but the others do not. Even among the groups at the Oregon protest/occupation. They could not agree on much, other than a hatred for the federal government.

If everything goes bad. It will not be a romantic revolutionary fight against tyranny. It will be like a bigger version of the Syrian war and the middle-east in general. It would just lead to the the United States growing weaker and weaker until it fractures and the next super power has to come in and "restore order".

At the end you would not have a once again strong and glorious United States government adhering to the constitution. You would have no constitution and no sovereignty. We would all be living in the new third world. We have made many enemies. Like it or not. What keeps us free from them. Is the strong federal government and the empire it has built.

Now I do not like the federal government. But this path I see many on ATS advocating for does not lead to more freedom. It leads to less freedom. Our government needs reform. But not in this way. Supporting the militias in this way is short sighted. Its purely emotional and bad strategic thinking.

All of you scared and paranoid about a one world government. This is how a one world government happens. By bringing chaos to the strongest country on the planet. Hasn't anyone stopped to think. That the globalists and bankers want the militias to do exactly what they are doing. That your all playing into their hands. Violent revolutions can easily lead to the instillation of dictators. Violent revolutions do not scare the bankers and globalist. They thrive and profit off of them. Its the peaceful ones that scare them. The ones that bring people together. Not tear them apart.

Or not, what do I know anyways.