Army Officer on Oregon Killing: 'This could be the First Shot of 2nd American Revolution'

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Well you might be dead right. The guys at the compound are saying there is a bunch of media out front. Now how is it that the FBI would allow that if a shootout was about to go down? Unless, of course, they WANT it taped to death from every angle so the prize killings can be well documented for them to make an example of them after being humiliated at Bundy ranch?

Media should be nowhere NEAR that place. Bullets and lord only knows what else are about to fly.

Yet if the media was banned from that place then all the Patriots would be crying how the truth is being suppressed.

Can't have it both ways.

originally posted by: opethPA

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Well you might be dead right. The guys at the compound are saying there is a bunch of media out front. Now how is it that the FBI would allow that if a shootout was about to go down? Unless, of course, they WANT it taped to death from every angle so the prize killings can be well documented for them to make an example of them after being humiliated at Bundy ranch?

Media should be nowhere NEAR that place. Bullets and lord only knows what else are about to fly.

Yet if the media was banned from that place then all the Patriots would be crying how the truth is being suppressed.

Can't have it both ways.

Everything about this situation since it started several weeks ago has screamed that these "patriots" want everything both ways. And no, that isn't a gay joke.

From what I understand, other protest members who were there, and saw the death, insist that the dead man charged at law enforcement officials, and did not die while face down on the floor with his fingers interlocked over his head.

If you cannot believe the other protest members, and you cannot believe the officials, then you cannot believe anything. Only two groups of people were there, and one of those groups has no vested interest in making out that the dead man was killed in a good shoot.

So what I want to know is, where is the alternative version, when both parties present, though approaching the days events from wildly differing perspectives, agree on the order of events, what remains in question?

a reply to: TrueAmerican

A poll after the Waco massacre said 72 per cent approved of the governments action CNN and others had done their job the media are not there to portray these people in any positive light

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: khnum
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

The official FBI statement says there were shots fired that is something I haven't heard from the other side I dont know if I count 'The endtime news' as the most credible source but I do think that by not elaborating the government has done damage to its cause by letting social media going unchecked with rumours.

OTOH, no one's been charged with anything that I know of except conspiracy to impede. Cops would JUMP at the opportunity to charge with something like an assault charge.

The fact that they haven't is bothering me.

No video, and I'll believe they just dry gulched the guy.

I'm trying to refrain from opinion until more evidence / info comes out, but I feel the exact same way you do. I also hope there is no more bloodshed over this. The airwaves / social media is way more heated than main stream media is letting on, and I know some folks in the militia community who are posting all kinds of messages about mobilization etc. (I'm not involved personally so who knows if its all just machismo, keyboard warrior type stuff) but I think this whole thing could set some other people off.

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
a reply to: DAVID64

And it's not only the official narrative that's started... I'll just leave it at that for now.

BUNDY SHOT
Just got off the phone with a Bundy brother. Here is the story he shared.
Aamon Bundy, his brother Ryan, and a few protestors went to meet with the FBI. They were pulled over and told to get out of the car. They did so with their hands up. AZ Rancher Lavoy Finicum informed FBI and local authorities he did not have a gun. Something happened, not sure what, but whatever it was shots were fired at Finicum. He is dead. Ryan Bundy was shot as well. Aamon Bundy says they were peaceful and there was no reason for the gun fire. Apparently, ABC NEWS has it all on video. I will be covering this story tomorrow on UNFILTERED and will keep you up to date throughout the day.

www.facebook.com...

Unarmed means unarmed. I don't claim to have all the details. ABC does. They shot the footage. Any bets on whether that footage will be released or not?

Screw Obama's part in this. I am way more concerned what may happen down the road here if ABC refuses to release the footage or the feds confiscate it, never to be seen again. 9/11 security cameras, anyone? We been here done that.

The fact that you would believe the assertion that they were unarmed says volumes in and of itself.

Since this standoff began, when have you seen any of the occupiers doing anything or going anywhere unarmed?

I'd be willing to bet money that they don't go to the bathroom without their guns.

Give me a break!

IMO, your entire OP is pure B.S. based on nothing more than the unsubstantiated claims of another anti-govt. nut-job who supports the occupiers.

Man oh man, these guys are talking some dangerous talk on that live stream from the compound. And unfortunately, a lot of it is true. America is just not ready for these guys. Oh man. So tell me ATS, give your best brain effort in what to do with a bunch of already far gone patriots ready to die holed up and waiting on the feds to move in? How do you negotiate THAT? I mean Christ, this sounds like the Boston Massacre about to happen all over again.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

Youre absolutely right, that we jump to conclusions, but can you blame anyone? How can we ever trust known liars, and believe the official stories, they give us??

It's easy if you don't spend your whole life paranoid of everything.

Iam not paranoid and i dont know what happen here. But IT IS a known fact, that goverment and officials, lie to us all the time. There is so much evidence and facts avaible on many of the lies and crimes commited by those supposed to protect us. THAT IS A FACT!!!

So is it paranoid to mistrust those, known for lying?

I'd say that taking the exact opposite stance of whatever the government is telling you is pretty irresponsible regardless of how much you are lied too. It's not hard to piece together your own evidence then develop your opinion then. If you do that, you'll find that more times then not things really ARE as they seem.

Who is talking about taking the exact opposite stance?? only YOU i think...
What happen to making up your own mind??

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
As it stands, these people are about to get wasted over what?

Just like KrisAnne Hall says in the video linked below, it’s not about the Hammonds or the Bundys.

The REAL issue here is about whether we want to be a free people or not.

a reply to: TrueAmerican

You cut off supplies and wait them out is your answer but I dont think that is what is going to happen

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

Youre absolutely right, that we jump to conclusions, but can you blame anyone? How can we ever trust known liars, and believe the official stories, they give us??

It's easy if you don't spend your whole life paranoid of everything.

Iam not paranoid and i dont know what happen here. But IT IS a known fact, that goverment and officials, lie to us all the time. There is so much evidence and facts avaible on many of the lies and crimes commited by those supposed to protect us. THAT IS A FACT!!!

So is it paranoid to mistrust those, known for lying?

I'd say that taking the exact opposite stance of whatever the government is telling you is pretty irresponsible regardless of how much you are lied too. It's not hard to piece together your own evidence then develop your opinion then. If you do that, you'll find that more times then not things really ARE as they seem.

Who is talking about taking the exact opposite stance?? only YOU i think...
What happen to making up your own mind??

Just remarking on a general attitude that I see within ATS in regards to official sources.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
From what I understand, other protest members who were there, and saw the death, insist that the dead man charged at law enforcement officials, and did not die while face down on the floor with his fingers interlocked over his head.

If you cannot believe the other protest members, and you cannot believe the officials, then you cannot believe anything.

It's a lot of confusion. Some say one thing, some another. I don't automatically trust either of them.

I'd really love some body camera video.

Because I'm sort of like Gerry Rafferty - clowns to the left, jokers to the right. Here I am, stuck in the middle with you. With no data yet. I'd love for it to have been an undisputedly righteous shot and not a lot of "he's coming right for me" bollocks.

a reply to: TrueAmerican

Live stream just went out.
Feds moving in and don't want witnesses?

a reply to: TrueAmerican

This is a perfect example of what happens when an unstoppable force meets an unmovable object.

There's 3 outcomes possible

The feds wait them out old school siege style until the occupiers run out of food/water and give up/kill themselves

The feds backdown and negotiate a deal which favours the occupiers BUT also saves face for them by some punishment going the occupiers way

The feds go in guns blazing and people die

It's not very logical for the feds to storm the occupiers though as there's no hostages or danger to life so they have all the time they need to wait it out and peacefully resolve the situation

a reply to: DAVID64

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
Man oh man, these guys are talking some dangerous talk on that live stream from the compound. And unfortunately, a lot of it is true. America is just not ready for these guys. Oh man. So tell me ATS, give your best brain effort in what to do with a bunch of already far gone patriots ready to die holed up and waiting on the feds to move in? How do you negotiate THAT? I mean Christ, this sounds like the Boston Massacre about to happen all over again.

Surround them.

Cut off all avenues of communication except for with law enforcement negotiators.

Cut off all electrical power.

Cut off their food & water supply.

Place the entire compound under 24/7 drone surveillance.

Blast the compound with high intensity sounds or music like we did to Noriega when he was hold up in the embassy in Central America.

Inform the occupiers that if they want to end this peacefully, they must give up their weapons, leave the compound and surrender to law enforcement to face any and all applicable charges.

Then I'd just wait them out.

Yeah, ok- so the cut em off and wait game. But what do you do if thousands of militia from many states show up, armed, and demand you move over and let them in or else?

I mean seriously, this could happen. Then what? In the span of one afternoon this could escalate into mayhem.

originally posted by: TrueAmerican
Yeah, ok- so the cut em off and wait game. But what do you do if thousands of militia from many states show up, armed, and demand you move over and let them in or else?

I mean seriously, this could happen. Then what? In the span of one afternoon this could escalate into mayhem.

Then I guess we find out exactly what "or else" means!

And I'll just bet it doesn't mean victory for the protestors or any of their prospective supporters.

a reply to: Flatfish

Yep as much as I like rooting for the underdog and their cause is justified, it's just not going to end in sunshine and roses for these guys

They should have waited for the inevitable economic collapse before starting all this in order to rally more to their cause

Right now it's going to look like a "win" for the government and a message to anybody else thinking to dissent to not bother

Heh, just thought of something. What if in a slick move the BLM said "ok, we now bequeath the 1/2 square mile of property you are on back to the state of Oregon. They pull the feds out, leave the patriots staring up at the sky with nothing to shoot at, and Oregon is left to deal with the problem. They'd probably just get cold and go home. The end. No one more dies, and Oregon gets back a tiny piece of what is theirs anyways.