Oregon protest leader Ammon Bundy is arrested, says source

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No, he was shot for resisting arrest. Calling it an execution is jumping to conclusions in lieu of evidence.

It's my opinion and you have every right to form your own. Did you hear the audio or do you know something else I don't? We didn't hear a thing but you're fighting for the official account as if it's the absolute truth. Why?

Good thing is, you could still claim the truck would've been lighted up with a TOW in the Ukraine. Winning!

Have any of you thanked the protesters for highlighting a major issue that we have with an out of control rogue agency using mafia tactics to extort resource rich land that they then profit off of from land owners across the north western United States?

I guess the government will do anything to continue to expand. The people be damned.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: hellobruce

How about an investigation into the BLMs acquisitioning of property which they in turn use to generate a profit from by contracting mining and drilling rights out to big mining and drilling companies?
.

Fine by me. But it's not going to happen if this an example of how people are making the case.

originally posted by: onequestion
Have any of you thanked the protesters for highlighting a major issue that we have with an out of control rogue agency using mafia tactics to extort resource rich land that they then profit off of from land owners across the north western United States?
.

So, I assume you can provide links about this that don't go back to these militia liars?

originally posted by: onequestion
Have any of you thanked the protesters for highlighting a major issue that we have with an out of control rogue agency using mafia tactics to extort resource rich land that they then profit off of from land owners across the north western United States?

Well, as they have "highlighted" no such thing, what are you on about?

What they have highlighted is a bunch of crazy ranchers are upset that they are expected to pay for their cattle to use government land.

a reply to: DelMarvel

I've done the necessary research to conclude that the BLM takes land and then rents drilling and mineral rights out to companies like Genie Energy for 20% of the profit.

If you did any research and stopped jumping to conclusions you would have found out for yourself.

Now I'll leave you too it.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: tweetie

After he was far enough away, that is when he reached for his weapon, or feigned to, so they would be forced to shoot him. He knew what he was doing.

Thats subjective, without audio we can't hear any thing anyone shouted or when shots initially were fired.

Convenient that. If they were so just in shooting him, where is the multiple dash cam and agent cam angles, with audio?

What if they asked him to reach?

Why did he come out with hands raised? He knew there were twenty guns on him. He knew he couldn't win.

Not so much subjective but basing my statements on what I have listened to LaVoy say in interviews, Victoria Sharp's testimony, the FBI video and putting myself in LaVoy's shoes and looking through his perspective as much as I can.

As I stated, he came out with his hands raised so he could get away from the vehicle without any shots being fired. He didn't want anyone else hurt.

The FBI may release more of what you ask at some point.

Just in shooting him? I highly doubt they wanted to and tried to avoid it but were prepared if things did not go according to plan. I can give them that. LaVoy knew what his actions would lead to because he was not willing to be arrested. He had drawn his line in the sand on his initial trip to the wildlife refuge. He "passed the Rubicon," as he said. He also said in one of the subsequent interviews that "there are more important things than a life." I understand that. He was willing to lose his for his principals. Some think that foolish but he made his decision and stuck to his word as worse came to worse for him.

I stand by what I have written on this matter.

Peace.

a reply to: tweetie

It's perfectly plausible he wanted to die and it's also perfectly plausible that they were already shooting as stated by Victoria Sharp.

In order to know the truth we need to hear audio.

Everyone else is jumping to conclusions.

I suspect what really happened based on all the history and evidence to date is as follows...

Finicum exited the vehicle and put his hands up. Contrary to verbal commands, he did not lie on the ground, but instead turned towards the LEO'S and demanded to talk to the Sheriff (essentially dismissing any other officers as not having jurisdiction) and ONLY the Sheriff. It did look to me like there was a verbal exchange between them and I suspect this was likely the nature of that discussion. Finicum may have been stating he would surrender, but only to the Sheriff. Of course these demands would have gone unheard amidst the shouting for him to "GET ON THE GROUND!!!"

His failure to comply, coupled with his physical actions along with his previous public statements and threats probably made it pretty easy to justify 'fear for.life or grave bodily injury'...and they fired. Once the firing began all bets were off.

a reply to: onequestion

I was wondering why they didn't occupy the methane leaking Frackushima in San Fernando instead, but I agree with their protest. It's remotely comparable with the Bundy-Ranch standoff, innit?

Besides from that I really think there are lessons to be learned from this mess. Don't bring weapons when occupying buildings, use civil disobedience instead and walk into prison with pride if you're looking for broader support from the people. At least that's what I think.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: onequestion

I was wondering why they didn't occupy the methane leaking Frackushima in San Fernando instead:

That's not what they're about. The Southern California Gas Company is the kind of entity that would wind up taking over federal lands if the Bundy's got their way.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: DelMarvel

I've done the necessary research to conclude that the BLM takes land and then rents drilling and mineral rights out to companies like Genie Energy for 20% of the profit.

If you did any research and stopped jumping to conclusions you would have found out for yourself.

Now I'll leave you too it.

BLM is a long-term problem. It's the "we (BLM, or fill in the blank) don't have to follow the law because we (BLM, or fill in the blank) are the law" syndrome so prevalent in the world. People are standing up and saying no.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: tweetie

It's perfectly plausible he wanted to die and it's also perfectly plausible that they were already shooting as stated by Victoria Sharp.

In order to know the truth we need to hear audio.

Everyone else is jumping to conclusions.

I don't think he wanted to die, as in I don't think he was suicidal. He was wanting to go home to tend to his lost cows. He had made up his mind beforehand, when he arrived at the refuge, that if anyone was going to arrest him he wasn't being taken in alive. He was not going to live in a concrete box, as he said. He stayed out in the open in his chair at the refuge so the police wouldn't have to look for him.

The folks at the refuge knew something was up before the fateful day.
LaVoy's last interview with The Oregonian, the day before he died

originally posted by: tweetie
He was wanting to go home to tend to his lost cows.

If he had actually wanted to go home he would have just gone home. But where would the media attention he craved be if he did that?

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: tweetie
He was wanting to go home to tend to his lost cows.

If he had actually wanted to go home he would have just gone home. But where would the media attention he craved be if he did that?

There are people who crave media attention. I would not put LaVoy in that category but yes, the occupation of the refuge was meant to elicit public attention to their cause. That's what people do when they want people to be aware of an issue.

originally posted by: hellobruce

If he had actually wanted to go home he would have just gone home. But where would the media attention he craved be if he did that?

He WAS on his way home.

The roadblocks stopped him.

They knew he was leaving !!!!

a reply to: onequestion

You know what?

If Bundy and Finicum had actually focused their dispute on these facts, instead of all their other bravado, antics and talk of revolution, they very likely would have had much broader support.

There actually is a fair amount of credibility in this theme, but they didn't do that. Instead they just tried to incite unrest among all those spoiling for a fight against big bad government...any fight.

The fundamental issues underpinning their anger has some merit, but they failed to articulate it properly and then wholly failed to execute their cause in a responsible way...and this was their failing across the board. When the whole thing degenerated into a radical extremist movement they lost all mainstream credibility.

a reply to: xuenchen

On Tuesday, Finicum's protest came to an end. He and several fellow occupiers were pulled over on Highway 395, a law enforcement official said. According to The Oregonian, they were headed to the city of John Day, where they were set to participate in a community meeting set up by local residents.

www.kmov.com...

Anything to the contrary at hand? And sorry in case I got lost on your irony...

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: hellobruce

If he had actually wanted to go home he would have just gone home. But where would the media attention he craved be if he did that?

He WAS on his way home.

The roadblocks stopped him.

They knew he was leaving !!!!

If he was on his way home he was headed in the wrong direction. Finicum was from Az. If by "home" you mean 'dead' then I guess I understand your meaning.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
Ya I knew that I just was a bit preoccupied with other things, was just wondering if these posters online also post in zulu time. But anyways this situation has been solved, no doubt the rest of the militia will get the message now and leave, at which point the crisis actors amongst them will also dissolve into the background. Because generally the answer to all these questions usually tends to be the last on the multiple choice...ie All of the above.

And life will move on as per usual. Poor old guy that got shoot, nothing new really suicide by cop is a common thing, and a pretty sure thing as well. Most who want to end it all go that route, and ya most of them seem to be older men who suddenly find themselves in a different world they they thought, females not so much go that route but females dont have the same worries as males. I don't know what the stats of suicide by cop is but its far from uncommon, I saw something on it some years ago but forgot.

And we all learned something from all this. In fact you to i think you said your a rancher, I am quite sure you probably learned a lot, just be glad you got nothing to valuable under your grounds, and one day all of it will likely be subsidized as well...But we knew that for ages now even as far back as the railroad movement. Also these militia men learned just how far the whole constitution thing will go..Not far at all, I bet those in the car going to see the serif actually thought they were going to get to town, or that the sheriff would be able to do anything about anything, or even care.

And off course we learned a lot by the responses from people online....The only thing I have to say is. When the day comes, and it likely will even though it may not be this generation. Well if I were you people, I would not test those other theories you all have. Most especially the one about how in martial law the American troops wont shoot upon Americans, women children and all...Me thinks that will last about as long as this if not shorter and with far deadlier consequences. After all the real rains of power here is that everybody has mouths to feed.

This whole occupation has lasted longer then usual I think. I really don't even know when this whole takeover of that place in the middle of nowhere took I think it was a few weeks ago. Thats a record for sure, most peoples attentions span is a day long at most, you could measure it in inches. I am sure everybody will mossy on along now.

Now everybody can enjoy yellowcake in peace and the turtles can go back to whatever there doing. Though seing its snow and winter there now, no doubt there hibernating or something. And life will go on as nothing has happened, like always.