Oregon protest leader Ammon Bundy is arrested, says source

a reply to: tweetie

Thank you!!!

Rightly or wrongly, I'm obsessing over this... and these pics aren't going to help... but thank you!

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: tweetie

Thank you!!!

Rightly or wrongly, I'm obsessing over this... and these pics aren't going to help... but thank you!

I figure if those few pictures of the last shooting scene were allowed there may be more coming at some point. I think a picture of the shot-up car would go a long way but, we'll see.

I'm obsessing, too. This effects the whole country and there may be future repercussions.

a reply to: Gryphon66

They need to be kept in check first of all and that has fallen into the wrong hands.

WE do not want to witness the day when peaceful assembly is construed by these out of control fascist dictators as terrorism all the while writing new laws that protect even thought crime and speech, any reasonable discussion against those who are rabid wolves hiding in sheep's clothing ready to claw our very existence and way of life to shreds.

Nobody denies that the alphabet agencies have a time and place, to serve our country as we the people hire them to do. When they begin to write the laws in the gray rather than black and white, transparent and according to our laws, then they are no longer serving the people of our country which leads one to ask who then do they serve?

There are good and bad in all aspects of life, whether agency or individual. The individual is kept in check by the laws of man but the agencies who conduct the control of man need to be ruled by a higher authority which is under God's law. Seems the real problem here is in discerning just what God we trust for the best outcome for all. Do we chose a God who is fair and just or a God who rules by totalitarian authority?

It is not so much about anti government ideology as it is following the rules, the laws and not encroaching on citizens without impunity.

a reply to: tweetie

I figure if those few pictures of the last shooting scene were allowed there may be more coming at some point. I think a picture of the shot-up car would go a long way but, we'll see.

Yes. I want to see the car. The condition of the car will tell me if I should give Victora Sharp's description of events any credibility... and, likewise, the feds.

I'm obsessing, too. This effects the whole country and there may be future repercussions.

I think you're right about that. Every fiber of my being is telling me that this is much bigger than we realize and will have long-term consequences for all of us.

a reply to: Boadicea

You must consider what this means when the oragonian as the only media outlet allowed to come in and take pictures right?

No matter what TVstation association gives updates on this (Very little coverage) they all are SCRIPTED...

Barely more than news snippets were allowed until after the blood was shed. Still everytime a black person is killed by a police officer we hear about and see images of their lives , family and so on until its a race/police war riot with burning cities and total chaos.

And nothing is done or changed except more separatism among Americans.

Even when real life terrorists blow up targets, it is either swept under the rug or we are lied to about the causes. NEWS IS FAKE and has an AGENDA which is not in the best interest of Americans. Get that if nothing else.

originally posted by: Boadicea
The only danger posed to the women and children was from the feds. Not the protesters.

This "militia" brought children to an armed takeover of a federal building while talking about dying for their cause and you're claiming they have no responsibility for putting them in danger?

That's ridiculous.

originally posted by: Boadicea
I wouldn't say his beliefs were crazy, but I do think his beliefs were flawed. Not to mention his methods.

He was a fundamentalist Mormon who thought he was talking to God. Sounds a little "crazy" to me.

originally posted by: antar
a reply to: Boadicea

You must consider what this means when the oragonian as the only media outlet allowed to come in and take pictures right?

No matter what TVstation association gives updates on this (Very little coverage) they all are SCRIPTED...

Understood.

Barely more than news snippets were allowed until after the blood was shed. Still everytime a black person is killed by a police officer we hear about and see images of their lives , family and so on until its a race/police war riot with burning cities and total chaos.

And nothing is done or changed except more separatism among Americans.

Even when real life terrorists blow up targets, it is either swept under the rug or we are lied to about the causes. NEWS IS FAKE and has an AGENDA which is not in the best interest of Americans. Get that if nothing else.

Got it. You're preaching to the choir. I'm not sure what your point is, so forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you, but it's still important to know what's being put out there...

a reply to: DelMarvel

He was a fundamentalist Mormon who thought he was talking to God. Sounds a little "crazy" to me.

Pretty much anyone and everyone who believes in a higher power thinks they are "talking to God." It's called praying. If that sounds crazy to you, okay.

I, on the other hand, seriously wonder about those who believe they are so ominiscient and omnipotent that they somehow know the unknowable, and in their arrogance cast judgment on others from their oh-so-lofty perch. One believes there is a greater power and a higher intelligence... the other thinks they are the greatest power and highest intelligence. Hmmmmm.....

a reply to: DelMarvel

This "militia" brought children to an armed takeover of a federal building while talking about dying for their cause and you're claiming they have no responsibility for putting them in danger?

That's ridiculous.

I have absolutely no reason to believe that those women and children were in any danger whatsoever from the protesters. The only ones responsible for pulling the trigger and putting women in danger are those who actually pulled the triggers.

Therefore, I have every reason to know that they were in danger from the feds. As do you, obviously, since you keep crying about the protesters putting them in danger and totally ignoring the responsibility of the feds. And even as you express your faux outrage over the safety of the women, you express absolutely no such concern at the feds shooting at unarmed women in a vehicle.

That's worse than ridiculous. It's downright dangerous. Finicum is dead. He can't put anyone in any danger anymore. The ones who pulled the trigger are still a threat to all of us.

Tuesday was the first time that the combination of top leaders was all together traveling away from their base at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, the official said.

The FBI and state police teams knew the route they were going to take. They picked a spot away from populated areas to attempt a traffic stop. One vehicle stopped on command from authorities. The second, allegedly driven by LaVoy Finicum, took off at high speed, attempting to get away.

About a mile away, out of sight, the FBI and state police had set up a roadblock.

But Finicum, with police in hot pursuit, attempted to leave the main road and drove into a snow bank. When he emerged from the vehicle, FBI and state police ordered him to surrender. That's when, authorities say, Finicum reached down toward his waistband where he had a gun.
The SWAT team opened fire. Finicum was killed. Ryan Bundy suffered a light wound on his arm.

The shooting was captured on camera by the SWAT team. FBI and Oregon police officials are discussing possibly releasing the video, in part to counter claims by supporters that Finicum was gunned down while trying to surrender.

*bold emphasis is mine

LINK

Based upon this report, which I believe to be accurate, this sounds like a perfectly justifiable shooting by LEO. I am eagerly awaiting the release of the video so that the truth can be witnessed by all.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: DelMarvel

He was a fundamentalist Mormon who thought he was talking to God. Sounds a little "crazy" to me.

Pretty much anyone and everyone who believes in a higher power thinks they are "talking to God." It's called praying. If that sounds crazy to you, okay.

I, on the other hand, seriously wonder about those who believe they are so ominiscient and omnipotent that they somehow know the unknowable, and in their arrogance cast judgment on others from their oh-so-lofty perch. One believes there is a greater power and a higher intelligence... the other thinks they are the greatest power and highest intelligence. Hmmmmm.....

Come on. The leaders of this are Skousenite FLDS Mormons like Warren Jeffs who believe God is telling them to stage an armed insurrection against the government.

That's a hell of a lot different than praying. And if we're going to get into the discussion of "greater power and higher intelligence" that would lead to a question of exactly what sort of entities they are in contact with.

The bottom line is we're talking about what everyone would recognize as a crazy religious cult if what they were doing didn't suit people's politics.

Victoria Sharp stated in her testimony that the first time the car she was in was stopped, LeVoy told (yelled) to FBI and police, (I am taking an excerpt from that part of her description) ... "Either you can put a bullet in my head right now and get it over with, or we're going to talk to the Sheriff."

They were fired at and that's when they, in the car, knew the police and FBI meant business so LeVoy sped off.

I don't believe LeVoy was trying to surrender. I do believe he did not want anyone else harmed because of his own actions. He told the FBI and police to shoot him the first time he stopped the car and the second time he demanded it. At the second stop he got out of the car and began walking towards them with his hands up telling them to shoot him. He was darned determined to die and not be taken to jail. When he showed up in Oregon he was already dead-set in his mind by his own admission that his death was coming and he would not spend time in jail.

I have listened to Victoria's testimony several times so far and though some of it is hard to understand, I stand by her. She is sharp. Not only is she sharp, she is sharp for an 18-year-old. I pray for her safety and well-being.

a reply to: antar

I'm not going to even attempt to counter the rampant propagandizing/evangelizing in your post, except to say that the only element approaching "fascists" in this scenario are a bunch of guys who think our American laws just don't apply to them. They've stated this.

They also stated that they indeed intended bloodshed if they don't get their way.

They also had the resources to follow through with those threats, possibly endangering innocent Americans.

So, like it or not, no they weren't "exercising their right to assemble" they were occupying/trespassing on US property, the People's property, and with the ridiculous level of "coming and going" they were allowed, posed a clear and present danger to the citizens of Oregon. The GOVERNOR of Oregon, (who would, by the by, be in Commander in Chief of any true "militia" in her jurisdiction) after these miscreants disobeyed the order to stand-down, requested assistance from the Federal Government in dealing with these armed thugs.

The idea that they were going to keep anyone, any where "in check" is just humorous. Ludicrous actually. They were begging for snacks and clean socks within a week, LOL.

Actually in my opinion if there is any fault or failing here, it is the patience that Oregon and the US showed these outlaws, trespassers and reprobates. They should have been brought to justice, by whatever means necessary, weeks ago.

Indeed, the matter is about the Constitution of the United States, of Oregon and the actual laws of both jurisdictions.

It is not about half-baked BS ideas that say a bunch of yahoos who decide they deserve special treatment because they don't want to play by the rules anymore have any sort of special rights, privileges or powers. Period.

Now ppl are beginning to think that this whole event was a crisis actor situation and nothing you have seen, read or heard can be believed. If you are one of the people who believe that sandy Hook was a crisis actor scenario designed to grab guns of well trained and armed citizens, this is the CT for you. Take a look at this article and see for yourself.



allnewspipeline.com...-2483424859

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: Indigo5

To be clear...AFTER the car was first stopped and the Feds and Swat etc. asked him to exit the vehicle....He sped away with that 18 year old girl in the car, to facilitate HIS OWN escape and avoid arrest (she was in no danger of arrest) and knowing full well the severe danger he was putting her and his passengers in by fleeing arrest at a high speed..

No doubt the "heated" or "emotional" conversation between himself and passengers that was alluded to by some accounts during that time speeding away likely centered on exactly that danger he was putting them in so that he could avoid arrest.

No hero there, but you can tell yourself whatever comforts your opinion.

Sounds like somebody is trying to make a Wal-Martyr out of him. =/

To add to what I stated above, LeVoy probably did reach for his revolver but I say he did so in order to be shot. His mind was made up.

Victoria Sharp stated the men in the car had revolvers but no big guns. She only saw LeVoy walking towards the police and FBI with his hands up telling them to shoot him. So, she likely didn't see LeVoy reach for his gun from her vantage point inside the car, if he did, because if she did I think she would have stated so. I don't think, from recall, she was asked that specific question by the man who interviewed her. I will listen to the interview more times. There's a lot to digest.

To sum up, I am not doubting the claim made by the FBI and police that LeVoy reached for his gun. I think he feigned it, if he actually did reach for it, so the police would shoot him.

a reply to: Gryphon66

“A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
James Madison

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."
— Tench Coxe, 1788.

What distinguishes those engaged in militia from an army

The authority for militia is any threat to public safety.
Those active in militia are usually not bound for a fixed term of service, or paid for it.
Those active in militia cannot expect arms, supplies, or officers to be provided to them.
No one has the authority to order militia to surrender, disarm, or disband.

Ah shoot, I have to run, be back...

a reply to: Gryphon66

Hehehe, Amen Brother!

a reply to: antar

This bit ...

No one has the authority to order militia to surrender, disarm, or disband.

... can be summed up in one word. Ludicrous.

For the actual facts relevant in this circumstance see Oregon Constitution, Article X - The Militia .

Here, I know you won't bother ...

Oregon Constitution
Article X - The Militia

Section 3. Officers. The Governor, in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief of the military forces of the State, shall appoint and commission an Adjutant General. All other officers of the militia of the State shall be appointed and commissioned by the Governor upon the recommendation of the Adjutant General. [Constitution of 1859; Amendment proposed by H.J.R. 5, 1961, and adopted by the people Nov. 6, 1962]

ETA: Further any actual militia (which these Bundites were not in any legal way, shape form or fashion) would, under the Militia Act of 1903, after the jurisdiction of the Governor of Oregon, and at need as determined would be under the ultimate command of the President of the United States at national need.

Militia Act of 1903 (Wiki summary)