Oregon protest leader Ammon Bundy is arrested, says source

originally posted by: liveandlearn
a reply to: RomeByFire

How have we let this happen? How does this continue to happen? Why do people believe that voting will help? Why haven't we done anything about this?

But alas, everyone is too busy, too tired, too stressed. Making ends meet, saving some up for vacation, taking care of the kids, car problems, illnesses; we're all too distracted to actually care, and you'd better believe that is by design.

Being an older person, I stand guilty as charged. Not to mention a lack of available information except MSM in the days before computers

I appreciate your response, and to quote V, "whose to blame? Look in the mirror!" We all have had a part in this, and it's us that keeps the machine turning. It was engineered that way, and to answer another posters question as to fight against a tyrannical government: I don't know.

In the age of space-based weaponary, sound/frequency based weaponary, the inception of drone warfare, international coalitions; I don't know.

I feel like the coffin was sealed long ago, and we're all along for the ride now. Many people wear blinders through life, and I'm envious. I'll still hold on to my ridiculous beliefs that aliens will come down and save us all, lol.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Bedlam

The more effective way would be if, while these two groups were scuffling at the fence like two bulls about to have at it

Except, that wasn't happening. To the dismay of the Bundites.

Have you ever seen a bully try to pick a fare fight
Ya did not think so

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Grazing land has water tanks, hay dumps, wells and somewhat maintained dirt graded roads. The Bundys would have made and paid for those things. The Bundys were doing all of the management of the BLM land.

Then there needs to be a change in who provides that. If I were to offer up my private property to a rancher for grazing purposes, you bet your sweet ass I'd be asking for a rental charge (use fee) AND not providing anything they need. You rent the land, you provide for everything you need. End of private ownership discussion. Now ask yourself -- why should this be any different for federal land? Why should the landlord, as it were, cover your costs?

And as for the Delta Bravo above your post. Go ahead & decimate every ecosystem you touch, but don't complain when it all falls apart around you from over-hunting, extinction, wanton forest clearing and it's another no-limits dust bowl. Then you'll become one of those you mock. Except a hell of a lot hungrier.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

You'd be surprised the plants that grow in a supposed desert. Technically I live in a desert, and I live in washington state.

Yes, they developed and maintained the land. But they still didn't buy the land. Did they offer to buy the land? Because if not, they still benefited greatly from essentially squatting. Any other rancher would have to buy land first, THEN spend the money and resources to develop it. The Bundys just assumed they could do what they wanted with this land, and that sort of entitlement bothers me.

a reply to: Slanter

I'm pretty sure Nevada is more than a supposed dessert isn't it?

a reply to: Trillium

Have you ever seen a bully try to pick a fare fight

I'm not sure of your point of view.
Who was picking a fight here? Which group of armed men decide to occupy government property?

a reply to: RomeByFire

Thank you

I feel like the coffin was sealed long ago, and we're all along for the ride now. Many people wear blinders through life, and I'm envious.

My sentiments exactly. Would be so grateful to go back to sleep. But once you know, there is no turning back.

a reply to: Nyiah

It is only Federal land because naive utopia hippies encouraged the theft of it from the States because of some worthless endangered tortoise and/or other animals that nature has decided can no longer compete. But Disney warriors who grew up on TV and cant imagine non-competitive animals they have personified with sad eyes and smiles since childhood waste their time making sure Feds get bigger and badder at stealing land through endangered species acts, when they could instead utilize that time and resources helping people be not homeless, starving, or facing foreclosure.

a reply to: Slanter

Hundreds, if not thousands of species have gone extinct on this continent since European colonization, both animal and plant. The world, or the country has not burned down, and productivity and access to better living standards has not gone down in this country. Affordability is gone, but that is not related to the extinction of animals. In many cases, another animal, perhaps invasive, fills the role.

a reply to: Bedlam
No need. The Bundites are quite isolated so there's no need for the authorities to do anything more than they have been doing. Except, perhaps to deny public access completely. Probably should have done that from the get go. The Bundites do not seem to be well prepared for a winter blockade.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Trillium

Have you ever seen a bully try to pick a fare fight

I'm not sure of your point of view.
Who was picking a fight here? Which group of armed men decide to occupy government property?

Well here a first for ATS
Phase playing dumb LOL

Lavoy was murdered by the FBI...witnesses say he was on his knees compling when they opened fire.
This criminal act is getting passed thru militia channels right now...and evaluating reponses to this development.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Bedlam

The more effective way would be if, while these two groups were scuffling at the fence like two bulls about to have at it

Except, that wasn't happening. To the dismay of the Bundites.

I think things are about to escalate. Hopefully not.

My bet is with LaVoy smoked and the rest of the leadership in the slammer, that this will collapse fairly quickly. If the Feds are smart, they'll make deals with the followers who were suckered by the Bundy's in exchange for being prosecution witnesses. It will be fines and probation so that if any of them do something stupid again, they violate parole and off they go to a Federal prison. Then they'll confiscate everything but their clothes and send them home on a bus.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Grazing land has water tanks, hay dumps, wells and somewhat maintained dirt graded roads. The Bundys would have made and paid for those things. The Bundys were doing all of the management of the BLM land.

Then there needs to be a change in who provides that. If I were to offer up my private property to a rancher for grazing purposes, you bet your sweet ass I'd be asking for a rental charge (use fee) AND not providing anything they need. You rent the land, you provide for everything you need. End of private ownership discussion. Now ask yourself -- why should this be any different for federal land? Why should the landlord, as it were, cover your costs?

And as for the Delta Bravo above your post. Go ahead & decimate every ecosystem you touch, but don't complain when it all falls apart around you from over-hunting, extinction, wanton forest clearing and it's another no-limits dust bowl. Then you'll become one of those you mock. Except a hell of a lot hungrier.

BLM land is keeping a lot of folks in cities. That and a superficial concern for the "Greater Happiness" is the reason that BLM land isn't owned by productive free folks.

Nature will change the desert into mountains, sea floor, or forest and field, eventually. All life adapts.

originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: enlightenedservant

What's "tyrannical"? I believe it's tyrannical to start wars based on lies, to drone strike civilians while calling the murdered civilians "collateral damage", to torture people, to disproportionately targeting citizens of different ethnic groups, to commit voter suppression, to intentionally poison a city with lead in order to save money, and to spend hundreds of billions on the DoD while there are homeless Americans.

So should I start an armed rebellion over it? No, I shouldn't.

You did not answered my question?

What should Americans do when their government turns Tyrannical?

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: enlightenedservant

What's your solution that's what he's sayingZ

Seriously? Organize at the local level, have members run for office, appoint like minded people to different internal positions, and change the system by actually writing the laws of the system. Hire lobbying firms or actually start a lobbying firm and/or PAC, then promote your message directly to the people in position to change the laws. Also, you can start a group that can consolidate your legal following, then use that group as leverage for or against politicians when they're running for election/reelection. You know, like every other special interest does.

a reply to: pteridine

Let's wait and see what their charges are.

I have a feeling this isn't over yet.

originally posted by: Granite
Lavoy was murdered by the FBI...witnesses say he was on his knees compling when they opened fire.
This criminal act is getting passed thru militia channels right now...and evaluating reponses to this development.

Maybe you missed it. Only Bundy said that LaVoy was surrendering and LaVoy said he'd rather die than go to jail. See my previous post on page 9.

originally posted by: Bedlam
I think things are about to escalate. Hopefully not.

The government lit the fuse. We'll have to wait and see what happens. I'm damn sure glad my kids are grown and don't spend hours in a daycare facility likeWhat the Hell were these people thinking?

a reply to: Snarl

What the Hell were these people thinking?

Certainly not that a cowardly nut would bomb the building.

originally posted by: Slanter
a reply to: Semicollegiate

You'd be surprised the plants that grow in a supposed desert. Technically I live in a desert, and I live in washington state.

Yes, they developed and maintained the land. But they still didn't buy the land. Did they offer to buy the land? Because if not, they still benefited greatly from essentially squatting. Any other rancher would have to buy land first, THEN spend the money and resources to develop it. The Bundys just assumed they could do what they wanted with this land, and that sort of entitlement bothers me.

I bet the Bundys would have bought that land 100 years ago if they could have.

Even today land like that could go for as low as $200 per acre. (No road, no trees, no electricity, long way from anywhere)

a reply to: Semicollegiate

I bet the Bundys would have bought that land 100 years ago if they could have.

Your bet is moot.

I know people who would be glad to buy the land they're leasing. But the owner doesn't want to sell.