The Straw that breaks the camel's back

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
This is a unique thread. Good.

Hm. I've been thinking on this and I guess it would be if they decided to let our poor, sick, elderly, and mentally ill people die from lack of government support. The 'ruling class' wants to anyway, it's all there between the lines, but if they actually decided to do it, remove all support, I would arise from my chair like a Mother Bitch! Hell hath no fury like a do-gooder scorned.

What about disputed "death panels" do you think this concept exists? Do you think the public at large would be able recognize that happening to them?

Life is a tangled web, so many things that can cause people to "snap". I appreciate your input on the thread. I felt like I haven't seen this topic discussed very much, but I always see people making bold claims, I thought it'd be interesting to get into the nuts and bolts of revolution.

Before the ACA, these so called death panels existed at the insurance companies. They are still in private hands, and they still make life and death decisions. Do I think end of life care needs to change, damn right I do, but I have hands on experience with it.

Any "revolution" will be completely staged. Another poster hit it on the head about race being a possible motivator. Stir up enough unrest to call for some kind of gun confiscation and possibly outside (U.N./Canada/Mexico?) intervention. What the instigated race war doesn't do the confiscation will and the place will be a mad house.

People should be urging for massive reform not revolution. Revolutions or civil wars create power vacuums that generally don't attract the best people.

This dovetails into another thought I had earlier in the week regarding authoritarian fascism/tyranny. They seem to come about as a needed response even if they generally do not result in a more free society. Seems like after the corruption which all democracies succumb to that the only answer is an abrupt usually heavy handed course correction. I am not in favor of fascism but I definitely see any scenario that results in a revolution at this point leading to just that.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I know trust me I live in a place called Santa Ana CA and it perfectly illustrates exactly the crux of a serious problem.

It's nothing but migrants here, and there's literally homeless on every single street corner and a massive encampment at the city hall of 100's of mentally ill and homeless people.

I go for walks late at night and see people in every parking lot sleeping in their cars.

I live in the middle of the country, and fortunately in the suburbs. I work in the city and drive through it's middle twice a day, the homeless I see are elderly, black, white, young, some claiming to be vets, how do we end what is a disgrace, in our nation of wealth?

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
Any "revolution" will be completely staged. Another poster hit it on the head about race being a possible motivator. Stir up enough unrest to call for some kind of gun confiscation and possibly outside (U.N./Canada/Mexico?) intervention. What the instigated race war doesn't do the confiscation will and the place will be a mad house.

People should be urging for massive reform not revolution. Revolutions or civil wars create power vacuums that generally don't attract the best people.

This dovetails into another thought I had earlier in the week regarding authoritarian fascism/tyranny. They seem to come about as a needed response even if they generally do not result in a more free society. Seems like after the corruption which all democracies succumb to that the only answer is an abrupt usually heavy handed course correction. I am not in favor of fascism but I definitely see any scenario that results in a revolution at this point leading to just that.

A Faux revolt, interesting. How does a person determine if its a true revolution or its staged? It seems people get really heated about race and the such, so how could people keep a clear head, and see through the illusion?

a reply to: eXia7

What about disputed "death panels" do you think this concept exists? Do you think the public at large would be able recognize that happening to them?

Of course they exist, we just don't think of them as such. If 25 people in a hospital need an incoming heart for a transplant, and they all fit the bill to have it, who gets it? Who decides it?

If a hospital in a small area only has a few dialysis machines, and there is a waiting list, who goes first? The local millionaire, or the 30 year old single mother of four, who is on public assistance?

These decisions have been being made for years. Decades. Fortunately, it's over with the dialysis machines, because they are always to be found, but it still happens with organs for transplants.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I know trust me I live in a place called Santa Ana CA and it perfectly illustrates exactly the crux of a serious problem.

It's nothing but migrants here, and there's literally homeless on every single street corner and a massive encampment at the city hall of 100's of mentally ill and homeless people.

I go for walks late at night and see people in every parking lot sleeping in their cars.

I see are elderly, black, white, young, some claiming to be vets, how do we end what is a disgrace, in our nation of wealth?

Whiskey and Gunpowder..........first thought that came to mind lol

a reply to: BubbaJoe

Yes, shamefully the homeless I see are Vets, mentally ill, and drug addicts. Usually all those things in one.

I found an article that actually goes hand in hand with this thread.

Americans hate the U.S. government more than ever

The federal government has joined the ranks of the bottom-of-the-barrel industries, according to a new survey from the American Customer Satisfaction Index. Americans' satisfaction level in dealing with federal agencies --everything from Treasury to Homeland Security -- has fallen for a third consecutive year, reaching an eight-year low.

"Satisfaction is linked to broader goals in the political system that it wants to maximize, like confidence and trust," said Forrest Morgeson, director of research at the ACSI. "It's much more difficult to govern if the entire population dislikes you."

It seems in this article, the culprit is the IRS.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: eXia7

What about disputed "death panels" do you think this concept exists? Do you think the public at large would be able recognize that happening to them?

Of course they exist, we just don't think of them as such. If 25 people in a hospital need an incoming heart for a transplant, and they all fit the bill to have it, who gets it? Who decides it?

If a hospital in a small area only has a few dialysis machines, and there is a waiting list, who goes first? The local millionaire, or the 30 year old single mother of four, who is on public assistance?

These decisions have been being made for years. Decades. Fortunately, it's over with the dialysis machines, because they are always to be found, but it still happens with organs for transplants.

Kind of a scary prospect to know that you could be dying and need assistance, but they let you die anyway.

a reply to: eXia7

Hard to say. I would doubt any mainstream media reports of "populist" movements. The media will be fanning the flames of anything staged as well as social media like in the arab spring and others. Also beware of emotional appeals if such a scenario breaks out such as repeated images of police being brutalized or killed by minorities. Women being raped etc like what is happening in Europe.


ETA: Something more legitimate would probably be spearheaded by a politician or military leader and would involve sweeping arrest in government.

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
Any "revolution" will be completely staged. Another poster hit it on the head about race being a possible motivator. Stir up enough unrest to call for some kind of gun confiscation and possibly outside (U.N./Canada/Mexico?) intervention. What the instigated race war doesn't do the confiscation will and the place will be a mad house.

People should be urging for massive reform not revolution. Revolutions or civil wars create power vacuums that generally don't attract the best people.

This dovetails into another thought I had earlier in the week regarding authoritarian fascism/tyranny. They seem to come about as a needed response even if they generally do not result in a more free society. Seems like after the corruption which all democracies succumb to that the only answer is an abrupt usually heavy handed course correction. I am not in favor of fascism but I definitely see any scenario that results in a revolution at this point leading to just that.

A Faux revolt, interesting. How does a person determine if its a true revolution or its staged? It seems people get really heated about race and the such, so how could people keep a clear head, and see through the illusion?

I actually think he is right, the US is split about 50/50 on most every issue, but it only seems to be the far right calling for revolt, please explain that one to me.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
Any "revolution" will be completely staged. Another poster hit it on the head about race being a possible motivator. Stir up enough unrest to call for some kind of gun confiscation and possibly outside (U.N./Canada/Mexico?) intervention. What the instigated race war doesn't do the confiscation will and the place will be a mad house.

People should be urging for massive reform not revolution. Revolutions or civil wars create power vacuums that generally don't attract the best people.

This dovetails into another thought I had earlier in the week regarding authoritarian fascism/tyranny. They seem to come about as a needed response even if they generally do not result in a more free society. Seems like after the corruption which all democracies succumb to that the only answer is an abrupt usually heavy handed course correction. I am not in favor of fascism but I definitely see any scenario that results in a revolution at this point leading to just that.

A Faux revolt, interesting. How does a person determine if its a true revolution or its staged? It seems people get really heated about race and the such, so how could people keep a clear head, and see through the illusion?

I actually think he is right, the US is split about 50/50 on most every issue, but it only seems to be the far right calling for revolt, please explain that one to me.

Personally I take an independent stance on a lot of issues, as I can pull ideas from both sides of the isle. Maybe the ones riding the gravy train are content and just don't see a true problem.. either through ignorance, or apathy. It would be interesting to see if democrats feel like the country is headed in the wrong direction or not. Remember, the media likes to spin both sides so they can keep up the BS. Maybe Americans would find a common ground regardless of party lines.

a reply to: eXia7 1% has more wealth than the rest of the planet combined?
And just 62 ultra-wealthy members of the elite have as much money as the poorest 3.5 billion people on the entire planet
In our world, money is power, and the elite are continually becoming more powerful

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
Any "revolution" will be completely staged. Another poster hit it on the head about race being a possible motivator. Stir up enough unrest to call for some kind of gun confiscation and possibly outside (U.N./Canada/Mexico?) intervention. What the instigated race war doesn't do the confiscation will and the place will be a mad house.

People should be urging for massive reform not revolution. Revolutions or civil wars create power vacuums that generally don't attract the best people.

This dovetails into another thought I had earlier in the week regarding authoritarian fascism/tyranny. They seem to come about as a needed response even if they generally do not result in a more free society. Seems like after the corruption which all democracies succumb to that the only answer is an abrupt usually heavy handed course correction. I am not in favor of fascism but I definitely see any scenario that results in a revolution at this point leading to just that.

A Faux revolt, interesting. How does a person determine if its a true revolution or its staged? It seems people get really heated about race and the such, so how could people keep a clear head, and see through the illusion?

I actually think he is right, the US is split about 50/50 on most every issue, but it only seems to be the far right calling for revolt, please explain that one to me.

Personally I take an independent stance on a lot of issues, as I can pull ideas from both sides of the isle. Maybe the ones riding the gravy train are content and just don't see a true problem.. either through ignorance, or apathy. It would be interesting to see if democrats feel like the country is headed in the wrong direction or not. Remember, the media likes to spin both sides so they can keep up the BS. Maybe Americans would find a common ground regardless of party lines.

I am independent as well, and as I have told, even some of the more neo-con members on this site, I am pretty sure that you and I could solve more than a couple of problems over a beer.

Congress is an f'n joke, everyone of those asshats need to be sent packing.

originally posted by: madenusa
a reply to: eXia7 1% has more wealth than the rest of the planet combined?
And just 62 ultra-wealthy members of the elite have as much money as the poorest 3.5 billion people on the entire planet
In our world, money is power, and the elite are continually becoming more powerful

Yeah, I read about that the other day. That is a pretty crazy wealth disparity. Some people are content with being poor. Some people just don't want to work hard and try and attain a decent life. Maybe people have a warped perception of what wealth is. Nobody should be starving, or be homeless in this day and age, but as you mentioned a small hand full of people have the population under their thumb.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

Traditionally the left are the reactionaries. Its even how the term "left" came into being during the french revolution. The calls do seem to be loudest from the right currently but possibly because the bait being used is based around cultural tensions and fears.

I was thinking earlier about how easy it is for us to describe the ways in which we disagree with our political opposition but seldom do Americans focus on the issues that we can agree upon. When we do we become bogged down in the ideological methods used to arrive at a goal. Perhaps a thread should be made in which we try to find commonality with the issues . Try to see if there is some type of issues that regardless of affiliation everyone as a citizen could agree on.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
This is a unique thread. Good.

Hm. I've been thinking on this and I guess it would be if they decided to let our poor, sick, elderly, and mentally ill people die from lack of government support. The 'ruling class' wants to anyway, it's all there between the lines, but if they actually decided to do it, remove all support, I would arise from my chair like a Mother Bitch! Hell hath no fury like a do-gooder scorned.

Well they already let the mentally ill die in the streets and because of the 50 million migrants from China and South America, the drain on the system is preventing us from taking care of the elderly too.

50 million, huh? You see, stuff like that throws your credibility to the wind. The US population is a bit over 300 million. 1/6th are NOT immigrants from China and South America. As they say, "[citation needed]," and you can't provide it. Nobody is going to "rebel" over crap like that. Get real.

originally posted by: madenusa
a reply to: eXia7 1% has more wealth than the rest of the planet combined?
And just 62 ultra-wealthy members of the elite have as much money as the poorest 3.5 billion people on the entire planet
In our world, money is power, and the elite are continually becoming more powerful

Unfortunately there are some that do not see this as a problem, there only wish is to join them.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: eXia7

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
Any "revolution" will be completely staged. Another poster hit it on the head about race being a possible motivator. Stir up enough unrest to call for some kind of gun confiscation and possibly outside (U.N./Canada/Mexico?) intervention. What the instigated race war doesn't do the confiscation will and the place will be a mad house.

People should be urging for massive reform not revolution. Revolutions or civil wars create power vacuums that generally don't attract the best people.

This dovetails into another thought I had earlier in the week regarding authoritarian fascism/tyranny. They seem to come about as a needed response even if they generally do not result in a more free society. Seems like after the corruption which all democracies succumb to that the only answer is an abrupt usually heavy handed course correction. I am not in favor of fascism but I definitely see any scenario that results in a revolution at this point leading to just that.

A Faux revolt, interesting. How does a person determine if its a true revolution or its staged? It seems people get really heated about race and the such, so how could people keep a clear head, and see through the illusion?

I actually think he is right, the US is split about 50/50 on most every issue, but it only seems to be the far right calling for revolt, please explain that one to me.

Personally I take an independent stance on a lot of issues, as I can pull ideas from both sides of the isle. Maybe the ones riding the gravy train are content and just don't see a true problem.. either through ignorance, or apathy. It would be interesting to see if democrats feel like the country is headed in the wrong direction or not. Remember, the media likes to spin both sides so they can keep up the BS. Maybe Americans would find a common ground regardless of party lines.

I am independent as well, and as I have told, even some of the more neo-con members on this site, I am pretty sure that you and I could solve more than a couple of problems over a beer.

Congress is an f'n joke, everyone of those asshats need to be sent packing.

I'm all for dumping career politicians and get some fresh new minds at the helm. I feel like progress has been stifled for many years because of career politicians. Ultimately its up to the voters to elect local officials that know how to lead, that can work their way into the ranks.

Unfortunately, the system is designed to keep the left / right fighting, and ignore the rational guy in the middle lol.

In the past revolt happened when food intake dropped below 800 calories per day for the population, and so I do not see that happening for a very long time.