Not enough qualified American workers

originally posted by: interupt42
This is kind of strange.

So Corporations and politicians talk about the importance of H1-b visas because of the lack of qualified American workers.

However, It appears that Disney had American workers who were all fired and replaced by foreign workers. The kicker is that these Unqualified American workers also trained the foreign workers before losing their jobs.

Leo Perrero was laid off a year ago from his technology job at Walt Disney World in Orlando, Fla. — and spent his final months there training a temporary immigrant from India to do his work

But Mr. Perrero discovered that despite his high performance ratings, he and most of the other 250 tech workers Disney dismissed would not be rehired for at least a year, and probably never.

Its crazy its almost like H1-b visas is more about cheap labor than really unqualified Americans and these corporations and politicians are all about profits for big lobbyist. Surely that couldn't be?

linky

Surely this is a hot topic in both the Republican and Democrat debates.

HP did this a few years back. They forced out a bunch of longtime engineers in a "downsizing" move followed a couple months later by a large hiring out of India. At that time they claimed that the US doesn't produce enough talented grads in engineering fields so they had to hire abroad, when really the foreign workers are just cheaper.

it funny one poster on here discussing how he is qualified but not other American workers is a bunch of BS. I work in the tech industry plus i have one degree, because i can't afford 5 degrees to get a job. Most of the people I run into like that poster don't have the ability to properly train anyone. They sit in comfortable jobs where they expect people to learn through osmosis. They will tell people "figure it out" and i shouldn't have to hold your hand so these poor kids have to google everything which eats up time and slows work production. They openly mock the kids to their face when they make a mistake calling them names like "educated morons" then they fire them and bring in a HB1 who has all the same issues the college kid had at half the price and they treat these guys like gold because the company is amazed they are getting them at that price. These HB1's do the job for like 5 years then throw themselves into our market at top dollar rates and whats funny is they act the same way to the college kids once they get a job but they are actually harder on the HB1 hires

I had a professor who works at nasa and he told the class a story about how a Indian with a PHD in computer science got to work with the mars rover team because he was a representative of the Indian space agency. This PHD tried to access the network and every time they shut him out so he complained. The network guys told this PHD he had a virus and wouldn't be allowed to access the network until the issue was resolved. The situation escalated quickly which ended with a nasa employee loading an antivirus on this guys computer in front of his bosses. The AV found the virus and the Indian rep apologized.

and that rep was the cream of the Indian crop yet i can find an American computer repair tech with no school at all who would know instantly if there was a virus on his computer

a reply to: jellyrev

Exactly.

And so the movie Idiocracy can come full circle.

originally posted by: Sargeras

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: N3k9Ni

Oh no, the poster above would you believe that these idiot Americans are asking for too much from their overlords!

Sad isn't it?

How can so many sell themselves out, because they believe the lie?

Hard work will not get you the American dream....

Arbeit Macht Frei.

a reply to: Cypress

Yeah we know the reason behind many of these claims but it amazes me how the American public just ignores it or overlooks the blatant lies pushed by our politicians and corporations.

Then they turn around and expects their political party to fix the issues that both party overlook and created for the benefit of the largest corporations.

I've seen this where superiors expect osmosis.
The young employees who usually do well in these situations are the ones who bs there way though it. They do things wrong, don't tell anyone and hope it doesn't get caught.
The employees who ask questions about the correct way to do things get the crap shoveled on them.

As for engineers and blueprints, IT'd be nice if for a couple years they worked bottom rung in the trade they are giving blueprints too whether before uni or after. Could be a nice lesson.

originally posted by: onequestion
You guys think it's bad... You should see construction.

I know a skilled trade and I gotta compete with Mexicans for low wages on jobs where I'm the only one who speaks English.

What kind of total bs is that? I feel like I'm in another country.

It's called competing on the global field. Why should construction companies hire someone just because they can speak English? You only need someone to speak English if they need to be trained by someone who only speaks English, or they need to make verbal contract with English-only supervisors.

I already offered you a job for good wage that would double in 4 years time. That whole need 2 years to become an apprentice is BS as well. You pay $45 for the card, get hired onto the company, and start racking up hours. In Texas there is a lack of skilled plumbers, or even plumbers wanting to start off. I see now hiring posted at all the supply companies right now.

You never replied. The offer still stands we need workers to start next month. Come be a 1%er then you can talk about how evil you've become doing honest, hard work. Or complain. Your choice.

I have trained people to do my job twice and been laid off afterward.

Employers want people that are naive and easily manageable, with some wacko idea that they can work their way up and be successful in time.

Nobody gets out of here alive....

Many employers wouldn't pay employees if it were not unlawful for them not to pay.

They babble about the work ethic of the employee, yet they have nothing like real and actual ethics of any sort themselves.

originally posted by: jobless1
it funny one poster on here discussing how he is qualified but not other American workers is a bunch of BS.

Actually, I said I'm not qualified. I'm competent by most standards but I'm not a superstar and in tech if you aren't one you probably won't have a job for long, especially in my field which is video games/simulations (if you're not very good your studio will go bankrupt within a year or two). India has more top 1% tech workers than we have total and that has a big impact on our job market. Part of a global economy means you need to be globally competitive and in this field that means you need to be very good, and thanks to the difference in currency values and worker expectations it also means you need to work very cheap.

Most of the people I run into like that poster don't have the ability to properly train anyone. They sit in comfortable jobs where they expect people to learn through osmosis.

It has been my experience that properly training is difficult because the most important skill is problem solving in a creative and efficient way. Basic skills like how to code, debug, animate, and so on can be taught with relative simplicity, as I said before the resources for this stuff are nearly infinite online. However, the needs of a company rely not on doing things, but on doing them well and that involves solving unique problems that can't be taught. It's not like a plumber, welder, mechanic, or so on which only have a finite number of problems that need to be learned and answered.

I had a professor who works at nasa and he told the class a story about how a Indian with a PHD in computer science got to work with the mars rover team because he was a representative of the Indian space agency. This PHD tried to access the network and every time they shut him out so he complained. The network guys told this PHD he had a virus and wouldn't be allowed to access the network until the issue was resolved. The situation escalated quickly which ended with a nasa employee loading an antivirus on this guys computer in front of his bosses. The AV found the virus and the Indian rep apologized.

and that rep was the cream of the Indian crop yet i can find an American computer repair tech with no school at all who would know instantly if there was a virus on his computer

This doesn't really mean anything, computer science isn't about having good computer maintenance skills, it's about data structures, algorithms, and software engineering. It is entirely possible for someone with a PHD in Computer Science to not have the skills of a computer repair tech, they are completely different fields.

a reply to: Aazadan

Virus removal is bottom rung level experience in IT he was helping work on the mars rover are you serous!
Your a coder for video games lol. From your writing I expected a CCIE. For the people not in the IT field a CCIE is a Cisco certified internet engineer they are the top 1 percent of the IT field. The test just to become one requires a massive written test with a score over 90 percent, then a test where you have a rack filled with Cisco products and you have to connect and configure the whole rank which has voip,switches,routers, basically every Cisco product. If you get passed that they tell you to take a break for an hour and then they mis-configure and switch around everything so nothing works basically they will cause as many problem as they can. They give you 2 hours to solve all the issues. which isn't enough time to just start over. When you pass that you are a CCIE the top 1 percent of the IT field.

Your a video game coder which isn't easy but you guys have programs that basically tell you when you have made a mistake in your code like a spell checker.

I know I have a computer science degree.

a reply to: jobless1

I've really been considering the CCNA, CCNP route, to me it seems easy.

I've had a foreign manager for the last year and we got off to a bad start because he likes to lead by fear. Today was my yearly and when he got to the point of how we are going to work together so I can improve over the next year I had to tell him that I was looking and interviewing already and wouldn't be here in a year. He wanted to know the issue and I told him with 2 patents and 5 awards this year and the rest of the group was 0 and 0 and then I received a "Needs Improvement". I'll take my 2-5 for the year on my resume and run. He wanted to talk I said "we're done".

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Sargeras

Just not enough that are willing to do the same job for half the price

Thats the problem and my biggest issue with this type of outsourcing.

Even if you wanted to compete you can't . You can not compete with a guy or gal that he and his family is living in another country where the cost of living is nearly nothing compared to here.

Ofcourse unless our economy tanks so much that our standard of living drops to the same level of these foreign countries. Or Middleclass Americans relocate their families overseas to live while they come back to America to work as h1-b

It became like that in Scotland. International students were *paying* IT companies £6000 for a six month internship. That just drove everyone else out. Everyone that I know from the past has either left the country, set up their own company or moved into the banking industry. I've had to move to the other end of the country.

a reply to: jobless1

CCNA & CCNP are a dime a dozen, but CCIE is no joke. I have a friend who is a CCIE you get 6 figures no problem with one.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Gotta start somewhere!

originally posted by: interupt42
This is kind of strange.

So Corporations and politicians talk about the importance of H1-b visas because of the lack of qualified American workers.

They also say the reason that Corporations moved to China is because of the taxes.
It costs apple 200 dollars to have their Iphone made in China including labor and then they sell it to Americans for 600+ dollars. They make more than enough in profits to have it made here. How much profit is enough? One look at their stocks says never enough, I never get an answer to that question. Which means, even if they had 0 taxes here, they still would not move back here if they still can make more profits having Chinese workers make it, who work 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, with no overtime benefits and no rights all at the average wage of a dollar an hour.

qz.com...

According to CNN’s online global wage calculator, which uses data from the International Labor Organization, the average annual salary of a worker in China’s private sector was 28,752 yuan (about $4,755) in 2012, or 38% of the global average.

a reply to: interupt42



As the economy shrinks, and people have less discretionary cash, the companies are constantly looking at ways to lower costs . Its a race to the bottom. Because who needs Disneyland.

a reply to: onequestion

Hey if you think you can do it, but seriously it's probably more difficult than getting your average PHD.

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
This is just a taste of what is to come with TPP. That agreement wants to expand the program

What happened was this as many Americans already know

www.theatlantic.com...

How Corporate Lobbyists Conquered American Democracy

Today, the biggest companies have upwards of 100 lobbyists representing them, allowing them to be everywhere, all the time. For every dollar spent on lobbying by labor unions and public-interest groups together, large corporations and their associations now spend $34. Of the 100 organizations that spend the most on lobbying, 95 consistently represent business.

The self-reinforcing quality of corporate lobbying has increasingly come to overwhelm every other potentially countervailing force.

Things are quite different today. The evolution of business lobbying from a sparse reactive force into a ubiquitous and increasingly proactive one is among the most important transformations in American politics over the last 40 years. Probing the history of this transformation reveals that there is no “normal” level of business lobbying in American democracy. Rather, business lobbying has built itself up over time, and the self-reinforcing quality of corporate lobbying has increasingly come to overwhelm every other potentially countervailing force. It has also fundamentally changed how corporations interact with government—rather than trying to keep government out of its business (as they did for a long time), companies are now increasingly bringing government in as a partner, looking to see what the country can do for them.

This is the NWO that Bush senior was talking about

a reply to: jacobe001

Which means, even if they had 0 taxes here, they still would not move back here if they still can make more profits having Chinese workers make it

Without a doubt. However I don't blame these companies I blame the American voters.

The Corporations are doing their jobs, they are making as much money as possible for their investors.

Its the American voters that Allow a Corporation that has an impossible task of infinitely growing and increasing profits for infinitely to have such easy access to our politicians to create these type of regulations.