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Dangers of atheism -Sam Harris

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posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:02 PM
link   

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

Philosophy as a decipline not a personal philosophy. There are no atheist philosophers?


Talk about splitting hairs.

Of course you can have a personal philosophy. Its called thinking.





The word "philosophy" comes from two roots, "philo" and "Sophia," which mean "love" and "Wisdom." Thus philosophy is the love of wisdom and, in actual practice, the pursuit, study of, and enquiry into wisdom. Some great philosophers have called philosophy the art of thinking; others have described it as the systematic study of human thought and feeling. Still others have said that whereas in real life people think about things, in philosophy they think about thinking.

So, here begins the initial journey of thinking about thinking. Because most philosophers also think about feelings--the meanings of artistic feelings, emotional feelings, and intuitions--feelings should be included, too. In fact, there is one more step to take: one simply can call all thoughts and all feelings perceptions. Usually the word "perception" means what one sees, hears, smells, tastes, and feels by touch. Some philosophy does examine external perceptions.

However, there are inner perceptions, too: thinking and inner feelings are ways in which people also come to know themselves. Therefore, it is possible to describe philosophy as the activity of thinking about knowing, or thinking about perception. Everyone is a practitioner of philosophy when he or she asks, "How do I know that what I think is right?" or "What is the nature of love?" Philosophy is more than just being aware--it asks questions about how everyone is aware. www.tc.umn.edu...


Ate you actually saying you are unaware of the subject philosophy? The discipline of philosophy? There is a big difference.


I know that you have decided to pigeonhole philosophy to mean what you want it to mean.


No I was just stating I was talking about the subject of philosophy. Which follows historical philosophers who have argued through fallacies of their own ideas. I am not saying philosophy doesn't mean personal philosophy as well.




posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:03 PM
link   

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee
Atheism: Understanding a Lack of Belief




The default atheist position, which is held by the great majority of the atheist community, is that atheism is a "lack of belief". Obviously, this means that atheists do not have a belief in any gods. However, this does not imply that atheists believe no gods exist.

For many, this can sound very confusing. If someone told you that they read Santa Claus was coming to town, there are a few relevant positions to take:

1. I believe Santa is coming to town
2. I'm unconvinced that Santa is coming to town
3. That's wrong. I believe Santa is not coming to town

Both the first and third positions express explicit beliefs. However, the second position did not accept the person's belief that Santa was coming to town, thus lacks a positive belief about Santa coming to town. While the second position lacks a positive belief about Santa's arrival, it also lacks the opposite belief that Santa is not coming to town. A common response from someone taking the second position might be, "Don't believe everything you read! Maybe he's coming, but I haven't seen anything that would make me believe so." This is quite different from an example response from someone taking the third position, "I don't care what you read! Santa has never come to town before, and I certainly do not believe Santa is coming to town now."

This distinction is amplified by claims of knowledge. The equivalent claims to knowledge of the positions above make the issue a bit more clear:

1. I KNOW that Santa is coming to town
2. I don't know that Santa is coming to town
3. I KNOW that Santa is NOT coming to town

Now, both the first and third positions are making claims to knowledge. Atheists generally consider either of these claims, with respect to the existence of gods, intellectually dishonest. Unfortunately, this distinction is often lost during discussions between theists and atheists because most of the conversations consist of colloquial (informal) language as opposed to a technical, philosophical discussion which recognizes the epistemological differences between knowledge and belief. www.lackofbelief.com...


I don't accept your source. Even if its a genetic fallacy and I don't think it's fair to this thread to keep argueing. I am just going to have to agree to disagree with you.


Simple question.

Are you an atheist?


Sometimes. But usually lean a little Deist.


OK, I am atheist.


Why define what you are at all?



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:03 PM
link   

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: vjr1113

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier


That sounds like pantheism or spinozaism to me just based on the developed principle.


Both those believe in a God.


There is a difference in saying God does not exist as an absolute than I don't have a belief one way or the other.


No one can say God does not exist.


It is a belief to say God does not exist active. Rather than simply a lack of belief passive.


Acknowledge God, so I can then say he doesn't exist?


That is why it is defined as such in philosophy.


Philosophy just means belief. Atheism is lack of belief.



Spinozaism nor pantheism believe in a God rather it is all God. Not a being.

Philosophy as a decipline not a personal philosophy. There are no atheist philosophers?


atheists does not say there is no god. it can't, atheism is we do not accept any claims of a god existing.

now there is a thing called anti-theist, which i am a part of. i learned it from satanism then refined it thru philosophy and ethics. its the stance that is, I do not want there to be a god. not saying i know or believe there isnt a god, only that i wish there to be no god. and we can go into that as well, but a new thread would be better


just for the record if any evidence that is non-contradictory or too vague is provided, i will believe in a god.

i quoted the wrong post sorry


Check out Dr Barnes on common sense atheism. His lecture on Cosmology and fine tuning.


Dr. Luke Barnes?

Proponent of Intelligent Design.



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:04 PM
link   
a reply to: LesMisanthrope




I prefer to define myself with actions instead of labels. Actions prove while labels can only ever claim. I will be labelled by others in their struggle to define me, but I personally do not struggle with my own definition, and I do not require the need to fit into this or that box.

The only label I require is my name.


That's...reasonable.

Ah..I see...the avatar now. Cute.

Still...sometimes it takes courage to define yourself...and take the heat. Not always though



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee
Atheism: Understanding a Lack of Belief




The default atheist position, which is held by the great majority of the atheist community, is that atheism is a "lack of belief". Obviously, this means that atheists do not have a belief in any gods. However, this does not imply that atheists believe no gods exist.

For many, this can sound very confusing. If someone told you that they read Santa Claus was coming to town, there are a few relevant positions to take:

1. I believe Santa is coming to town
2. I'm unconvinced that Santa is coming to town
3. That's wrong. I believe Santa is not coming to town

Both the first and third positions express explicit beliefs. However, the second position did not accept the person's belief that Santa was coming to town, thus lacks a positive belief about Santa coming to town. While the second position lacks a positive belief about Santa's arrival, it also lacks the opposite belief that Santa is not coming to town. A common response from someone taking the second position might be, "Don't believe everything you read! Maybe he's coming, but I haven't seen anything that would make me believe so." This is quite different from an example response from someone taking the third position, "I don't care what you read! Santa has never come to town before, and I certainly do not believe Santa is coming to town now."

This distinction is amplified by claims of knowledge. The equivalent claims to knowledge of the positions above make the issue a bit more clear:

1. I KNOW that Santa is coming to town
2. I don't know that Santa is coming to town
3. I KNOW that Santa is NOT coming to town

Now, both the first and third positions are making claims to knowledge. Atheists generally consider either of these claims, with respect to the existence of gods, intellectually dishonest. Unfortunately, this distinction is often lost during discussions between theists and atheists because most of the conversations consist of colloquial (informal) language as opposed to a technical, philosophical discussion which recognizes the epistemological differences between knowledge and belief. www.lackofbelief.com...


I don't accept your source. Even if its a genetic fallacy and I don't think it's fair to this thread to keep argueing. I am just going to have to agree to disagree with you.


Simple question.

Are you an atheist?


Sometimes. But usually lean a little Deist.


OK, I am atheist.


Why define what you are at all?


It is my right.

I came to atheism through Christianity. I am atheist.



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:04 PM
link   
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

i dont care what other atheist have done. thats on them. one can be an atheist and a dictator, one can be an atheist and a humanist, one can be an atheist and a communist, socialist, capitalist.

atheism is simply the rejection of god claims, every philosophical claim after that is atheism + x belief.



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

i dont care what other atheist have done. thats on them. one can be an atheist and a dictator, one can be an atheist and a humanist, one can be an atheist and a communist, socialist, capitalist.

atheism is simply the rejection of god claims, every philosophical claim after that is atheism + x belief.


THANK YOU

THANK YOU




posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: vjr1113

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier


That sounds like pantheism or spinozaism to me just based on the developed principle.


Both those believe in a God.


There is a difference in saying God does not exist as an absolute than I don't have a belief one way or the other.


No one can say God does not exist.


It is a belief to say God does not exist active. Rather than simply a lack of belief passive.


Acknowledge God, so I can then say he doesn't exist?


That is why it is defined as such in philosophy.


Philosophy just means belief. Atheism is lack of belief.



Spinozaism nor pantheism believe in a God rather it is all God. Not a being.

Philosophy as a decipline not a personal philosophy. There are no atheist philosophers?


atheists does not say there is no god. it can't, atheism is we do not accept any claims of a god existing.

now there is a thing called anti-theist, which i am a part of. i learned it from satanism then refined it thru philosophy and ethics. its the stance that is, I do not want there to be a god. not saying i know or believe there isnt a god, only that i wish there to be no god. and we can go into that as well, but a new thread would be better


just for the record if any evidence that is non-contradictory or too vague is provided, i will believe in a god.

i quoted the wrong post sorry


Check out Dr Barnes on common sense atheism. His lecture on Cosmology and fine tuning.


argument from ignorance. we dont know or possibly know, therefore there must be a prime creator or prime force. illogical. you dont know and i cant know, there is no need to presuppose something we cant prove.

watch some hitchens or sam harris, i recommend them. even low profile speakers like matt dillahunty, he speaks a lot about morals and TAG
edit on 26-1-2016 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:09 PM
link   
Now that it appears we have finally established what atheism is.

I'm gonna go back and try to watch the video in its entirety.




posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: vjr1113

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier


That sounds like pantheism or spinozaism to me just based on the developed principle.


Both those believe in a God.


There is a difference in saying God does not exist as an absolute than I don't have a belief one way or the other.


No one can say God does not exist.


It is a belief to say God does not exist active. Rather than simply a lack of belief passive.


Acknowledge God, so I can then say he doesn't exist?


That is why it is defined as such in philosophy.


Philosophy just means belief. Atheism is lack of belief.



Spinozaism nor pantheism believe in a God rather it is all God. Not a being.

Philosophy as a decipline not a personal philosophy. There are no atheist philosophers?


atheists does not say there is no god. it can't, atheism is we do not accept any claims of a god existing.

now there is a thing called anti-theist, which i am a part of. i learned it from satanism then refined it thru philosophy and ethics. its the stance that is, I do not want there to be a god. not saying i know or believe there isnt a god, only that i wish there to be no god. and we can go into that as well, but a new thread would be better


just for the record if any evidence that is non-contradictory or too vague is provided, i will believe in a god.

i quoted the wrong post sorry


Check out Dr Barnes on common sense atheism. His lecture on Cosmology and fine tuning.


Dr. Luke Barnes?

Proponent of Intelligent Design.


Annee Dr Luke Barnes is a cosmologist. Very respected in his field. Intelligent design is a religious aspect. But yes the teleological arguement is used with fine tuning.

I sincerely hope you have a rebuttle to his actual peer reviewed papers. Not what people assume fine tuning means.



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:11 PM
link   

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: vjr1113

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier


That sounds like pantheism or spinozaism to me just based on the developed principle.


Both those believe in a God.


There is a difference in saying God does not exist as an absolute than I don't have a belief one way or the other.


No one can say God does not exist.


It is a belief to say God does not exist active. Rather than simply a lack of belief passive.


Acknowledge God, so I can then say he doesn't exist?


That is why it is defined as such in philosophy.


Philosophy just means belief. Atheism is lack of belief.



Spinozaism nor pantheism believe in a God rather it is all God. Not a being.

Philosophy as a decipline not a personal philosophy. There are no atheist philosophers?


atheists does not say there is no god. it can't, atheism is we do not accept any claims of a god existing.

now there is a thing called anti-theist, which i am a part of. i learned it from satanism then refined it thru philosophy and ethics. its the stance that is, I do not want there to be a god. not saying i know or believe there isnt a god, only that i wish there to be no god. and we can go into that as well, but a new thread would be better


just for the record if any evidence that is non-contradictory or too vague is provided, i will believe in a god.

i quoted the wrong post sorry


Check out Dr Barnes on common sense atheism. His lecture on Cosmology and fine tuning.


Dr. Luke Barnes?

Proponent of Intelligent Design.


Annee Dr Luke Barnes is a cosmologist. Very respected in his field. Intelligent design is a religious aspect. But yes the teleological arguement is used with fine tuning.

I sincerely hope you have a rebuttle to his actual peer reviewed papers. Not what people assume fine tuning means.


I have no interest in Dr. Barnes.

The thread subject/person is Sam Harris.



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: vjr1113

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: vjr1113

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier


That sounds like pantheism or spinozaism to me just based on the developed principle.


Both those believe in a God.


There is a difference in saying God does not exist as an absolute than I don't have a belief one way or the other.


No one can say God does not exist.


It is a belief to say God does not exist active. Rather than simply a lack of belief passive.


Acknowledge God, so I can then say he doesn't exist?


That is why it is defined as such in philosophy.


Philosophy just means belief. Atheism is lack of belief.



Spinozaism nor pantheism believe in a God rather it is all God. Not a being.

Philosophy as a decipline not a personal philosophy. There are no atheist philosophers?


atheists does not say there is no god. it can't, atheism is we do not accept any claims of a god existing.

now there is a thing called anti-theist, which i am a part of. i learned it from satanism then refined it thru philosophy and ethics. its the stance that is, I do not want there to be a god. not saying i know or believe there isnt a god, only that i wish there to be no god. and we can go into that as well, but a new thread would be better


just for the record if any evidence that is non-contradictory or too vague is provided, i will believe in a god.

i quoted the wrong post sorry


Check out Dr Barnes on common sense atheism. His lecture on Cosmology and fine tuning.


argument from ignorance. we dont know or possibly know, therefore there must be a prime creator or prime force. illogical. you dont know and i cant know, there is no need to presuppose something we cant prove.

watch some hitchens or sam harris, i recommend them. even low profile speakers like matt dillahunty, he speaks a lot about morals and TAG


I just said I saw Harris lecture. He is one of my favorites.

Hitchins himself says fine tuning is a strong arguement. He is actually what led me to Barnes.

Try actually listening to the lecture I recommended before you jump to conclusions. That very thing is addressed. Barnes also never claims anything about God. I am just saying its interesting.

mobile.twitter.com...
edit on 26-1-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: vjr1113

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier


That sounds like pantheism or spinozaism to me just based on the developed principle.


Both those believe in a God.


There is a difference in saying God does not exist as an absolute than I don't have a belief one way or the other.


No one can say God does not exist.


It is a belief to say God does not exist active. Rather than simply a lack of belief passive.


Acknowledge God, so I can then say he doesn't exist?


That is why it is defined as such in philosophy.


Philosophy just means belief. Atheism is lack of belief.



Spinozaism nor pantheism believe in a God rather it is all God. Not a being.

Philosophy as a decipline not a personal philosophy. There are no atheist philosophers?


atheists does not say there is no god. it can't, atheism is we do not accept any claims of a god existing.

now there is a thing called anti-theist, which i am a part of. i learned it from satanism then refined it thru philosophy and ethics. its the stance that is, I do not want there to be a god. not saying i know or believe there isnt a god, only that i wish there to be no god. and we can go into that as well, but a new thread would be better


just for the record if any evidence that is non-contradictory or too vague is provided, i will believe in a god.

i quoted the wrong post sorry


Check out Dr Barnes on common sense atheism. His lecture on Cosmology and fine tuning.


Dr. Luke Barnes?

Proponent of Intelligent Design.


Annee Dr Luke Barnes is a cosmologist. Very respected in his field. Intelligent design is a religious aspect. But yes the teleological arguement is used with fine tuning.

I sincerely hope you have a rebuttle to his actual peer reviewed papers. Not what people assume fine tuning means.


I have no interest in Dr. Barnes.

The thread subject/person is Sam Harris.


Then next time don't comment on him.



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:14 PM
link   
a reply to: vjr1113


i dont care what other atheist have done. thats on them. one can be an atheist and a dictator, one can be an atheist and a humanist, one can be an atheist and a communist, socialist, capitalist.

atheism is simply the rejection of god claims, every philosophical claim after that is atheism + x belief.


The same could be said about any religion.

The problem lies with your consistent use of the suffix ‘ism’, which means:

“a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement: of all the isms, fascism is the most repressive.”

If you don’t believe in god claims, that’s all you have to say. No label required. But atheism is rejection of god claims is completely false.



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: Annee
Now that it appears we have finally established what atheism is.

I'm gonna go back and try to watch the video in its entirety.



Uh I just gave you three sources that say different what makes yours more important?



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee
Now that it appears we have finally established what atheism is.

I'm gonna go back and try to watch the video in its entirety.



Uh I just gave you three sources that say different what makes yours more important?


My source is American Atheist.

Done.



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:18 PM
link   
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

the difference between atheism and religion is that one is a command from god himself. religion is the claim to know what god wants. you can think that way if you want thats fine.

if you want to disagree that atheism is denial of god claim thats fine too. but you're wrong.



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: vjr1113

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier


That sounds like pantheism or spinozaism to me just based on the developed principle.


Both those believe in a God.


There is a difference in saying God does not exist as an absolute than I don't have a belief one way or the other.


No one can say God does not exist.


It is a belief to say God does not exist active. Rather than simply a lack of belief passive.


Acknowledge God, so I can then say he doesn't exist?


That is why it is defined as such in philosophy.


Philosophy just means belief. Atheism is lack of belief.



Spinozaism nor pantheism believe in a God rather it is all God. Not a being.

Philosophy as a decipline not a personal philosophy. There are no atheist philosophers?


atheists does not say there is no god. it can't, atheism is we do not accept any claims of a god existing.

now there is a thing called anti-theist, which i am a part of. i learned it from satanism then refined it thru philosophy and ethics. its the stance that is, I do not want there to be a god. not saying i know or believe there isnt a god, only that i wish there to be no god. and we can go into that as well, but a new thread would be better


just for the record if any evidence that is non-contradictory or too vague is provided, i will believe in a god.

i quoted the wrong post sorry


Check out Dr Barnes on common sense atheism. His lecture on Cosmology and fine tuning.


Dr. Luke Barnes?

Proponent of Intelligent Design.


Annee Dr Luke Barnes is a cosmologist. Very respected in his field. Intelligent design is a religious aspect. But yes the teleological arguement is used with fine tuning.

I sincerely hope you have a rebuttle to his actual peer reviewed papers. Not what people assume fine tuning means.


I have no interest in Dr. Barnes.

The thread subject/person is Sam Harris.


Then next time don't comment on him.


I didn't.

You introduced him into the discussion with no link or source.

I asked if Dr. Luke Barnes, Intelligent Design - - was who you were referring to.



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:22 PM
link   
a reply to: vjr1113


'the difference between atheism and religion is that one is a command from god himself. religion is the claim to know what god wants. you can think that way if you want thats fine.

if you want to disagree that atheism is denial of god claim thats fine too. but you're wrong.


I'm not saying it is a religion at all. But it is an 'ism' which I will say again, is:

"“a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement: of all the isms, fascism is the most repressive.”

Do you agree with this?



posted on Jan, 26 2016 @ 12:22 PM
link   

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: vjr1113

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: luthier


That sounds like pantheism or spinozaism to me just based on the developed principle.


Both those believe in a God.


There is a difference in saying God does not exist as an absolute than I don't have a belief one way or the other.


No one can say God does not exist.


It is a belief to say God does not exist active. Rather than simply a lack of belief passive.


Acknowledge God, so I can then say he doesn't exist?


That is why it is defined as such in philosophy.


Philosophy just means belief. Atheism is lack of belief.



Spinozaism nor pantheism believe in a God rather it is all God. Not a being.

Philosophy as a decipline not a personal philosophy. There are no atheist philosophers?


atheists does not say there is no god. it can't, atheism is we do not accept any claims of a god existing.

now there is a thing called anti-theist, which i am a part of. i learned it from satanism then refined it thru philosophy and ethics. its the stance that is, I do not want there to be a god. not saying i know or believe there isnt a god, only that i wish there to be no god. and we can go into that as well, but a new thread would be better


just for the record if any evidence that is non-contradictory or too vague is provided, i will believe in a god.

i quoted the wrong post sorry


Check out Dr Barnes on common sense atheism. His lecture on Cosmology and fine tuning.


Dr. Luke Barnes?

Proponent of Intelligent Design.


Annee Dr Luke Barnes is a cosmologist. Very respected in his field. Intelligent design is a religious aspect. But yes the teleological arguement is used with fine tuning.

I sincerely hope you have a rebuttle to his actual peer reviewed papers. Not what people assume fine tuning means.


I have no interest in Dr. Barnes.

The thread subject/person is Sam Harris.


Then next time don't comment on him.


I didn't.

You introduced him into the discussion with no link or source.

I asked if Dr. Luke Barnes, Intelligent Design - - was who you were referring to.


The source was definitely given. His lecture on commonsense atheism like I said. It's very easy to Google. If you were interested I would get you the link but you already indicated otherwise.







 
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