Can a 'True Follower of Jesus' be Divorced / Re-married & still call himself a 'Christian' ?

Can a 'True Follower of Jesus' be Divorced / Re-married & still call himself a 'Christian' in the 21st Century ?

It seems that R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean ("Jesus") had a massively deep problem with the subject of Divorce - especially re-marriages, yet how many persons who style themselves 'Christians' to-day totally ignore his ultra conservative stance on the subject and happily get divorces and re-marriages without so much as a Howdy-do? Even the normally conservative R. Shammai in the early part of the 1st century CE allowed divorce under certain circumstances, (and R. Gamaliel had a somewhat more liberal attitude towards the subject) : but for 'Jesus' the subject was not up for debate: there shall be no Divorce, ever.

Why he was so reactionary on this one particular subject when handing out commands for life to his disciples is a hot topic for discussion

See Mark 10:2ff (=Luke 16:18ff and Matthew 19:9)

The Pharisees came and asked him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?”to test him. And he answered them saying, “What did Moses command you?”

They said to him, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to dismiss her.” And Jesus answered them saying, “Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the Creation, did not the Most High ‘make them male and female ?.’‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined-together, let not any son of man pull apart..."

In his house his disciples also asked him again about the same subject and he said to them “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her."

[See Malachi 2:16 "For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says YHWH the clan-god of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says YHWH Tsabaoth."or see Hezekiel 22:30 : Thus saith YHWH: "I hate divorce."]

The canonical Greek Gospel according to 'Matthew' (whoever he was) adds the following

Matthew 19:10
The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this command, but only those to whom it has been given to accept it. For there are castrati who were born that way from their mother's womb, and there are castrati who have been made castrati by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who can accept this do so."

So "Jesus" advocates celibacy and dis-allows Divorce.

Also in 'Matthew' we have the added clause to his logion against Divorce see both 'Matthew' 5:32 and 19:9
"Whoever divorces his wife, except on the grounds of unchastity, commits Adultery" which in 1st century CE Palestine meant death by stoning.
Whether except for 'unchastity' (Gk.porneia = lasciviousness) was added later is not known (the phrase does not occur in Mark or in Luke's version of the saying - and the Matthean additional phrase basically boils down to this: 'a woman who cannot spill blood on her wedding night is grounds for divorce') -

I suspect this was added to the oral tradition when the command never to divorce under any circumstances could not be carried out to the letter of his original intent. In other words, they fudged his words to suit real life.

Saul of Tarsus seems to have had a tradition 'from the Lord' on this subject, when he states in 1 Corinthians 7: 10 "To the married I give this command (it is not from me, but from the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must never divorce his wife..."

which incidentally is one of the few places in his epistles where he quotes Jesus directly (one other time he had a chance to quote 'the Lord' had to do with it being 'more blessed to give than to receive' which is not found in any Gospel I know of.)

The question arises:

Why do Protestant churches especially in America allow divorce and re-marriage without retribution (I was thinking of Anita Bryant just now) when it clearly goes against everything R. Yehoshua taught on this subject? Is it a case of picking and choosing what is most convenient - especially in the convenience-driven 21st Century?

Considering all the contradictory statements all Christians are asked to hold at the same time, I can't see why not...

a reply to: Sigismundus

You mean, would they still be considered a follower of Jesus. The term Christian didn't exist back then. So the answer to that is Yes you can. If that's what you want.

This webpage i think you'll like on your journey, a friend gave me these tapes and then i had an opportunity to meet this man so i've talked to this guy in real life 2ce, a few yrs ago. Really helped back when i was religiously entrapped still. I should say, this guy hit the nail on the head his stuff is really mindblowing.

www.gospelrevolution.com... Mike Williams

Quotes from his page:

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." - Albert Einstein

You can call yourself a christian as long as you believe that Jesus died for our sins, marriage has nothing to do with salvation.

Or you can call yourself a christian and believe whatever you want. That seems to be the new trend these days. It really doesn't matter, you can fool people, but there's no fooling God.

Christians should not divorce unless there is an issue of adultery. On those grounds, the innocent party may remarry. If there is a divorce for any other reason, then they should reconcile or never remarry.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

But in the beginning this was not the case . Something happened to screw up things and sense that happened God has been working to bring back His original plan . The cross was more of a inauguration ,and the gates of hell will not prevail against it .....

Can a 'True Follower of Jesus' be Divorced / Re-married & still call himself a 'Christian' ?

They can call themselves anything they want. Shouldn't the question be....What will Jesus call them?

Can a 'True Follower of Jesus' be Divorced / Re-married & still call himself a 'Christian' ?

Yes.

Pardon my french but he was a bastard...probaly why the gospel of Thomas didn't get put in. Joseph wasn't his father after all.

So I think he forgive u.

What I find interesting is that up till then, a women really could not divorce her husband, she could run away from him, she could commit adultery and risk being stoned, but she couldn't divorce him. He could divorce her, give her a piece of paper and basically set her free, and well, maybe just maybe she could find someone who would marry the used goods so to speak. Moses (or maybe it was God) allowed men to divorce their wives because it was better than just abandoning them and well, leaving with no option to remarry.
So, this was the world that Jesus came into.... and then he comes out with this " if a man divorces his wive and remarries another" but, and well basically sets the men in the same position as the women had been under for all this time. And, some of the disciples are horrified! all of a sudden "it's better not to marry".

I think in today's world, it's better to kind of look at things the way moses (or was it God) did.... because of the hardness of some hearts, it's better to let them divorce.

a reply to: Sigismundus

I do not know but I sure do know a lot of thrice divorced self righteous folk who swear up and down they will get into heaven but their gay neighbors won't.

So I guess it all depends on if you ask a divorced Christian that question.

No. A true Christian should be devoid of alllll sin, both present, past and future. They should also have complete faith in Jesus Christ, enough to walk on water. They should not be rich, but should donate all their money to God and the poor, not get drunk or break any laws of the land or the 10 commandments.

Matthew 5:18 "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished".[

Doesn't everyone know Christians are perfect?

a reply to: Sigismundus

It depends on the reason for the divorce.

There are some circumstances where God will allow for it - adultery is one.

So if your spouse cheats and you get divorced and then remarry, it was perfectly legitimate. But if your reason for the divorce is the all too common irreconcilable differences, then you are out of luck. You are still married in God's eyes.

It's sick and sad... I mean you stand in a room full of everyone closest to you and then you swear an oath to your significant other and to god himself that you'll never part. And then you toss all that away more commonly than not, over petty disputes and disagreements.

I understand that there are legit reasons for divorce in some cases, violence, repeated betrayl, ect. But again most are simply out of vanity, either egotistical or financial... like my parents who've got 5 divorces between them. It's fkin wrecked my mind to say the least. I've got all kinds of rejection and trust issues with women as an adult and it's gotten to the point that I may never get married just out of some kind of indoctrinated spite.

This was posted in another forum a while ago, but I always keep it handy for topics like this because it's just so damn true...

a reply to: rexsblues

Yep, marriage is not a game, and we have turned it into one.

My area of expertise cool....yes ...all is forgiven ....we have the Spirit in us now....since 40 days after He left to go to the Father....then He came through with His promise..." we would do as He did...greater works..." when He would send the same Spirit that was in Him...while on earth.

So, He didn't need it anymore so He gave it to us here on Earth...along about what....50 days Pentacost.

it is scriptural to confess but not by ritual....more like in a broom closet all hidden and secret. Yep, then it's JUST YOU......plus some still voice teaching daily....how cool...If you're a pilot, it's like coming into Love Field in the soup on ILS approach in a light twin.......with a tornado going down Royal Lane.....

a reply to: Sigismundus

Because being a Christian doesn't mean you are without sin.

It means you have been forgiven.

a reply to: Sigismundus

Yup
2nd line

At the time of demise if you have taken the lord in your heart you are in.

Seems he is ok with a woman divorcing a man, just not man divorcing woman

loophole