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Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

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posted on Feb, 25 2016 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: lostgirl

He only had 3, and I'd look for them at libraries before bothering to buy them but I think they're worth reading anyway.

Journey's Out of the Body, Far Journeys, and Ultimate Journey.

They're interesting in the sense that he tried to come up with a reliable way of causing out-of-body-experiences by using technology and claimed contact with various stages of afterlife-type places/entities along with many non-human types of life.

By using sound in the form of binaural beats he found a way to enter an altered state of consciousness, similar to what shamans and others throughout history have known. So in my mind he really only rediscovered and relabeled something ancient, but the books are interesting regardless.

I only have experience with lucid dreaming myself, but from what I've read an OBE seems very similar to those, and I think the two concepts are related. If nothing else, binaural beats have interesting effects and are worth looking into, and don't necessarily require buying anything as long as you have a pair of headphones.




posted on Feb, 25 2016 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: Anaana

You have misunderstood what I wrote, but that is OK

and entirely my fault.
Another day perhaps.



posted on Feb, 25 2016 @ 04:18 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That's why I like your concept of living alongside the 'otherworld' for want of a better phrase, to benefit both parties.




We need to shed this myth of the golden age---Celtic...Kundalini..Sumerian....all of it. But can we learn bits and pieces from other cultures? Sure thing!


Not so much a golden age, but certainly myth. Which is why I find it so imperative to find out the actual meaning of the stories rather than blindly worshipping gods who were never meant to be seen as gods at all.



posted on Feb, 25 2016 @ 04:21 PM
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a reply to: beansidhe

Gorgeous.

We created most of the "gods".

We need to heal the parts of us which thought that it was a good idea to create them.

Then wave goodbye to them in their old forms.

Kev



posted on Feb, 25 2016 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: Anaana

You have misunderstood what I wrote, but that is OK

and entirely my fault.
Another day perhaps.


If you like.

But I don't think it is really necessary, my point to Baddogma, was that he wasn't really missing out by not being intimately acquainted with maths to understand the universe or partake in the conversation, that there are people, like Osserman who understand what is understood well enough to explain it with clarity to those who know nothing of maths.



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: Baddogma

My writers block I've been dealing with for the past 40 years is showing signs of loosening up.

I'm working on some experimentation. I need to research just a little more neurology.

Then I may be able to data dump everything into a book with the express purpose of stirring controversy and hopefully stirring scientific research.

I have to leave my natural state (liminal state) to do this and that is uncomfortable, but it seems worthwhile.

Even 25% verification of what I'm saying would turn a lot of things on their head.

Maybe 5 years to finish.

That's what I am pondering. That is my potential project.

I wouldn't have much time for ATS.

Kev



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 12:53 PM
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If we create the gods through thought and worship then what happens to them when nobody believes/worships them any more?
Do they fade away, lose power and become space imps or just stay the way they were, waiting and perhaps hoping to be worshipped again?
Which begs another question - what benefit do our thoughts/worship/belief give them? If they just 'feed' on it then presumably they would fade or die without it?

If all material life creates/manifests these and have being doing so presumably for billions of years that would make for an awful lot of 'faded gods' which may explain why there are so many of them and perhaps even why they seem envious of us material beings as without us they cannot exist.

If 'we' then abandon them over time they are left craving our belief and attention to gain more 'life,power,energy'or maybe just to be able to experience something of the material universe again.



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: johnb

They just take on new forms.

Some of today's UFOs may be repackaged faeries.

Kev



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 01:20 PM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: johnb

They just take on new forms.

Some of today's UFOs may be repackaged faeries.

Kev


Or devices exploiting QED principles. Or doing some type of signals mixing voodoo with Quantum Squeezing techniques in an EM lattice?

Those are very real possibilities too.



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: BASSPLYR

"Some" and "may"

And for the record I think that "faeries" are just as quantum mechanical as anything else.

Really I'm tired of dueling metaphors.

There's one set of rules and everything follows it.

I barely care about the difference between so-called living and non-living.

Whether turtles or physics, it's physics all the way down.

Kev
edit on 26-2-2016 by KellyPrettyBear because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 02:17 PM
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The Problem with Mystical Hunger Syndrome (MHS)

People are emotionally and intellectually "hungry" for answers to the big questions. Some people choose one of the adaptive behaviors known variously as being spiritual, religous, metaphysical, or even fringe-science orientated.

But any way you look at it, this type of behavior is a result of mostly unconscious hungers present in the nervous system.

Of course much, if not most of this hunger is due to the desire to mitigate or cheat "death".

Now even the folks mature enough to see death for what it is, may "fall prey" to this type of urge for the unusual and esoteric, so that may make the most of their life, even if they DO have to die eventually.

I'm not disputing that we may be/are wired into the Universe in some sort of symbiotic relationship.

But that is not the major point, even if true.

If someone wants to use their body/mind as a living laboratory in search of conscious Union with "the other"; that's fantastic; however if they don't purge themselves of "MHS" first, they will be plagued with selection and confirmation bias, and in fact will only "find" the precise thing for which they were looking.

Of course that means they probably didn't find anything at all.

By far worse than that, with the motive to immerse ourselves in an adaptive behavior to make us feel better, there is created a self-induced feedback loop (control system) that will keep us perpetually deluded, to ensure we don't accidentally learn something "true", but conflicting.

Thus we all, for the most part, are functionally designed to be ignorant, and to keep ourselves ignorant.

Another facet of MHS is the "Life, the Universe and Everything" tactic. In short, if we keep "moving the goal posts" with our "research", we are in effect preventing ourselves from researching ANYTHING.

I'm done with tolerating MHS. I'm now ACTUALLY and more formally researching something that I care about a great deal.

Kev
edit on 26-2-2016 by KellyPrettyBear because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

In terms of your book...go for it.
Why did your mentor say you weren't to write one?




But any way you look at it, this type of behavior is a result of mostly unconscious hungers present in the nervous system. Of course much, if not most of this hunger is due to the desire to mitigate or cheat "death".


I think that's true to an extent; if there is proof of life after death, all death anxiety fades away. (Allegedly the Picts, Vikings et al were taught that they went to an afterlife to encourage them to fight without fear in battle, but yes, I'm drifting again so I'll wheesht).
What about the instance Baddog gave of his father and the clouds? That's not about mitigating death, more like trying to figure out what on earth was going on (I would guess).

Mystical Hunger Syndrome is an excellent name for that 'seeking' though, spot on.





By far worse than that, with the motive to immerse ourselves in an adaptive behavior to make us feel better, there is created a self-induced feedback loop (control system) that will keep us perpetually deluded, to ensure we don't accidentally learn something "true", but conflicting.


Do we keep ourselves deluded with your feedback loop, or does something else ensure we don't learn something? And last question (promise), can you tell us what you're formally researching now?



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: johnb




If all material life creates/manifests these and have being doing so presumably for billions of years that would make for an awful lot of 'faded gods' which may explain why there are so many of them and perhaps even why they seem envious of us material beings as without us they cannot exist.
If 'we' then abandon them over time they are left craving our belief and attention to gain more 'life,power,energy'or maybe just to be able to experience something of the material universe again.


That's almost as sad as Lostgirl's idea about God needing us to rescue him. Faded gods are too poignant to think about. No wonder they want to feel adored again.



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: beansidhe

I think BD's father was able to mentally connect with the environment, as if the clouds were an extension of his nervous system/body. I don't know exactly what makes that possible, but I've done similar things myself when I considered it absolutely necessary. Like everything else I've mentioned, I don't think it's anything special and (hopefully) one day such things will be understood by scientists.



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: beansidhe

It's difficult to say "which layer of being" is whammying us. But using the "As below, so above", we start by acknowledging our own culpability first.

As for writing a book, when I diagnosed his "holy man" with Aspergers Syndrome he went into connuptuons.

But he did have a valid point. According to him, nobody besides his holy man knew enough on the subject to he credible. So nobody else either now or in the next millenium had the "divine right" to write even one word on the subject.

Now I'm not a holy man worshiper, but I do understand that the "bar" is very high indeed if one wishes to write credibly on such topics.

As for books and research I must remain mysterious, as I must protect my identity.

But I intend it to be quantifiable, precise, falsifiable and highly worthwhile.

Kev



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: beansidhe

Her idea has a certain merit.

Kev



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: beansidhe

Souls and gods are very similar. If you understand one you automatically understand the psychology of both.

INCLUDING how mistruths and confusions have created both. 10,000 years or so ago..."souls" did not exist.

Now please explain this truth to me...I have faith you can do it.

Kev
edit on 26-2-2016 by KellyPrettyBear because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: Rethaya

Like your electrical wire that whipped out from the wall like a snake? Yes, I suppose it is, but what I meant was the desire to figure out what's going on there might not necessarily stem from 'death anxiety' as much as 'wtf did I just see there anxiety'.


I guess it does boil down to 'unknown' though, which then leads to thoughts of death and otherworldy stuff....



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear




As for books and research I must remain mysterious, as I must protect my identity.



Yes of course, I understand. But when you write it - how will we know it's you? Or will we never know? Nobody can ever stop you from writing, if that's what you really want to do. All you need is a disclaimer to say this is only your opinion and all holy men can exhale freely.




Souls and gods are very similar. If you understand one you automatically understand the psychology of both. INCLUDING how mistruths and confusions have created both. 10,000 years or so ago..."souls" did not exist.


I was looking for this article for you because it might interest you. The following is from an anthropologist who wonders whether the idea of a soul is closer to 200, 000 yrs old....




The slab, or stele, was recovered from an Iron Age city called Sam’al in Turkey. It dates to around the 8th century B.C. On the 800-pound, three-foot-tall piece of rock was an incised picture of a man, the deceased, who was presumably cremated, and words that explained that the soul of this man now resided within the stone slab....

...It's hard to say exactly when the idea of a second self came into play. Presumably the recognition of a soul appeared hand-in-hand with human consciousness, and it was probably voiced when we had language to put the idea of a soul into words. That would place the time frame for a soul around 200,000 years ago, when humans experienced a cultural explosion which they expressed in art, clothing, and evidence of religion.

Clearly, at that point and beyond, humans had moved beyond solving how to find enough food, and they were using their excess brain power and leisure time to think of other things.


www.livescience.com...

It seems that souls pop up because of language and as soon as you try to explain 'I' (ego), and partly because we use possessive adjectives for our body (my leg ie the leg that belongs to me). But anyway, I like the anthropologist above's conjecture that modern humans have always believed in souls.



posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: beansidhe

Well I'm nobody important (as others have strongly and directly stated repeatedly) so there is no need to identify me.

As for writing...I'm going to stress the need for further research, and stress my own rudimentary results, so as you say, "nobody should get upset", and even if they did---so what?

I finally feel free "enough" from MHS that Kundalni is now nourishing new parts of my brain...so I should be capable of higher quality work.

As for "the soul"---that's my girl.

Close enough for now.

I deliberately low-balled on the 10,000 years in order to get a rise out of people.

Once you realize how new the "soul" is..it really helps free one from self-pity and delusion.

You are totally awesome Bean.

Kev



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