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Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

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posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 06:36 PM
a reply to: Baddogma

Hey all!
Just caught up, that was a lot to read. I really enjoyed every response.

Kanzveldt...Hello. We've never 'met', but I'm actually a fan of your writing/threads here. (I'm not always in chit-chat, lol)

I didn't really see a place to jump in and participate while I was reading, which is fine. Sometimes I just enjoy expanding my mind quietly. I do have a few questions for some of you but can't seem to put the right words together tonight.

Thanks!! jacy

posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 06:42 PM
a reply to: Baddogma

Well, I'm no shaman, but for what it's worth -

- your "deeply intuitive knowing" that there is a core 'you' consciousness which has lived before and will live again -

- makes total sense to me. If our consciousness carries on in any form, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't retain a good deal of our individuality.

And, while I have no desire to reincarnate on this particular world; I have put in 50 years hard work figuring out so much about 'who' I am and discovering 'too late' so much that I want to be, that I hope I get another life 'somewhere' that I will get to put all this hard won knowledge to use...

...not to mention the fact that since most of my "work" consists of learning how to 'live' (and especially how to 'Love') while drowning in the desire to die (suffering severe clinical depression) -

- it seems to me that if there's any sort of 'larger' Love inherent in the make-up of reality, it might provide for second chances.

edit on 23-2-2016 by lostgirl because: punctuation

posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 07:04 PM
a reply to: lostgirl

This subject is why close to 100% of people never start their spiritual journey. I know that it's the toughest thing imaginable.

Thats why I've never had any hope of even One person ever being serious.

But all these posts have been very interesting and educational for me too.

Now the truth?

Nothing is ever lost.

The rest of the truth?

You still die and decay away.

Both are true.

But this is a good time to take a few days off.



posted on Feb, 23 2016 @ 10:04 PM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

well in my opinion Kundalini should be left alone and it will sort it self by natural process of development. That way the meditator will have the least resistance when the serpents starts to rise. This is coming from my personal experiance so far and it was not so stressful as this is for you (well that is the feeling I get from your writings about it...), only sometimes there are blockages in the flow in some areas. Like you mentioned feeling of thunder bolt in the spine, I have felt something like that also on some occasions.

As far as bad experiences or suffering during meditation goes, it happens, but so far so good and I can say that is was very enjoyable for me in general, sometimes even blissful, but I almost never had any selfish or impure motives or intent. For instance: like trying to ascend to heaven or have Siddhis.
And I am still feeling young and full of energy and also with a very strong, durable and healthy body. So I am very lucky ...well in some ways, but not so much when it comes to beauty : )

With full respect but in my opinion, you sound a bit arrogant when stating that about 7000 years. There are many other people who have reached your "level" and even beyond. And they also wrote books or had devotees...

I think it is well researched in buddhism and zen, but the information is not available in mainstream texts but in other advanced sutras or books. But than again, in buddhism and zen they don't focus on Kundalini at all, that is why it is not mentioned as much, as it is with Indian yogies. They treat it as a part of the natural development and leave it alone. They just focus on the teachings of emptiness and compassion and correct meditation technique and in time it will rise without much difficulty.

In buddhisem or zen, the main focus is what comes after Kundalini in my opinion...but who knows...maybe they are all wrong as you say, but I siriusly doubt that. As there were a lot of Self realized masters in both traditions.

a good starting reference about this for anyone interested:
edit on 1456289670254February542542916 by UniFinity because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 12:05 AM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You're right, most people don't ever "start their spiritual journey", we both know how incredibly tough it is and from reading your earlier posts and threads -

- I know I've traveled some of the same paths you have, with the primary exception of Kundalini (which you've said is worthless anyway)...

...Of course, I haven't got any shaman 'abilities', so my view of the 'terrain' isn't anything like as varied or broad as yours, but I have come far enough to know that no matter how much of 'reality' any given person has 'seen' -

- they can never say for certain that they've seen 'everything', because there can always be something 'round the next bend that just hasn't crossed their path yet.

And as well, there's the matter of perspective - people can travel past the exact same view and get entirely different pictures...

...That's why I always find it very admirable when you say you 'could be wrong' about any or all of 'this stuff', because most people whose views are so certain, are too invested in their paradigms to consider any possibility of having been mislead or mistaken in their vision.

Enjoy your "days off", we'll miss you!!

(((((((virtual hugs)))))))

posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 12:06 AM
I've heard it said...

Shamans are the lawyers of the spiritual. That made me laugh...

And generally? A shaman never calls or himself or titles himself a shaman. It's like saying "I'm a hero". Poor taste, and not something the truly initiated need to do.

posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 12:10 AM
a reply to: Baddogma

Hi everyone. This is sorta a goodbye.. I'm not actually going anywhere.. I'm still going to be on ATS. I'm still going to post some. I'm going to answer any IM's.

But I find that I have lost interest (for now) in this thread. Not in the people. I like the people.

But there is only so far that I am willing to go, in sharing information in this particular context.

I have no interest in arm-wrestling with words or any other means, to bring someone to the starting line of a very long process. Now I understand.. people like us, without exception it seems, have been suffering for a very long time, and just want their fantasy wish fulfillment to start coming true right now!

When asked about this sort of thing, Gopi Krishna would get everyone hating him, by saying that not everyone is a "Gold medal winner in spirituality.". That in fact genetics, background and "grace" determined everything (old GK was quite religious you know), and that in this regard, like in most other regards, life is not fair. That's just how life is.

Now, I'm not claiming that I'm any particular wonder child myself.. it took me more than 50 years to get to a point where i'm just comfortable myself, and that's after "training like an olympic athlete" for all of those years.

As I said in one of the very first pages, "spirituality" is only very secondarily for us.. and it's primarily "for the Universe" itself. If I happen to be around someone who the Universe has obviously groomed to be someone I can help.. then I will help.. every time. But that has never happened. But don't feel bad.. it never happened for me either.. The two teachers I had did everything in their power not to help me in any way. I mean, maybe 5% of the information I've shared here, over a period of years. One gentleman was actually pretty rough and abusive. The other one was one of those "cosmic mushroom heads"; almost like the lights are on but nobody's home.. but you get a massive contact high being in the same state as he was.

Of the information that I did share, something like 70% of it had no particular value.. as it was information from the "end of the road", which is certainly a bit different from individual to individual. In a different context I'd have shared about all the ins and outs of Kundalini, including grooming the personality to be ready for such a thing. But people love their personalities so much that they aren't willing to let it die. And "dying" is Spirituality 101, and must be MASTERED at the PH.D level, before getting started at all.

So I hope nobody perceives any hard feelings on the part of either party (myself and my friends in this thread). I certainly don't feel any.

I probably won't be posting as much on my blog anymore.. as without people asking me questions, I just "live" and no questions are required. So I don't expect to be able to write like I was.

So... thank you all.. it's been very enjoyable and educational for me. And it caused a resurgance.. for which I'm grateful. (I prefer to let those happen naturally and not "force them").

Bye for now.. and I'm unsubscribing from this thread for now.


posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 12:12 AM
a reply to: lostgirl

Just for you my dear friend.. Kundalini is the most valuable thing in the Universe.. it's having sex with God. AND it's worthless at the same time.

Go figure.


posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 12:17 AM

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I've heard it said...

Shamans are the lawyers of the spiritual. That made me laugh...

And generally? A shaman never calls or himself or titles himself a shaman. It's like saying "I'm a hero". Poor taste, and not something the truly initiated need to do.

I pretty much call myself "Kev".

Or my full-blooded Lakota Sioux Grandma Medicine Woman's tribal name - Pretty Bear.

That's about as fancy as I get .. I have gone with "shaman" despite asking people not to call me that.. with quite some levity.. (and my blog is titled "stories of a FAILED shaman).

So I ask you respectfully to not spread disinformation about myself and my character.



posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 01:36 AM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I hope my post was not one of the reasons for goodbye, as I have no intent either to arm wrestle about Kundalini or anything else. This must be experienced as it is unique for each individual in many ways. until than it is just a story and I was just telling my side of things, without no further attachments. And I decided to post that, so that curious people can get another a bit lighter additional view about Kundalini in relation with zen or buddhism.

But I hope it is still clear to all readers, that these things are not to be toyed with and are to be respected and treat Kundalini with much caution, I don't want to demean Kundalini in any way.

Well in any case, you have left lots of information here in this thread and have given us a lot to ponder about.
Thank you for that, friend. It was a pleasure and an honor to converse with a "failed" shaman, I doubt it we will get another chance like that soon. I hope you will come back, cheeky bastard : )

: )
edit on 1456300653257February572572916 by UniFinity because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 01:57 AM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

No disinformation, these are your very words:

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Kantzveldt

As I said...I'm a Shaman who appreciates both Enki and use your terms.

And your point about technology is correct of course.

But it's a horrid soulless technology that misses the entire point of being alive.

I also know that you don't like liminal detachment..but its the core tool of a shaman.

Not everybody is or should be a shaman.


Misinformation would be using my word to spread false statements. I have not done so, but I am truly sorry that you perceive in your reality that to be the case.


posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 02:56 AM
Thanks for sharing what you did Kev (if you read this) and if I played in any part in your resurgence (through questions) then I'm glad to have been of assistance.

Hope to keep bumping thoughts with the rest of you

posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 03:30 AM
a reply to: lostgirl

..not to mention the fact that since most of my "work" consists of learning how to 'live' (and especially how to 'Love') while drowning in the desire to die (suffering severe clinical depression) -

- it seems to me that if there's any sort of 'larger' Love inherent in the make-up of reality, it might provide for second chances.

There are only 2 true understandings: Love and Joy.
Not in love, not lust, not happy, not laughing these are emotions, not understandings.

To love is to understand.
To be truly joyful is to have an understanding.

Experiencing these two special understandings is what I strive for.

It keeps things simple, The rest of these discussions and yearnings in life as expressed in this thread is just noise of the ego.

posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 03:35 AM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Yes well here's another copy of that article Sex, Magic and the Liminal Body for those that don't like to register to read, but anyway it seems readily apparent that the Sumerians had a great deal in common with the English when it comes to appreciation of the liminal and the central role of the tavern, not to mention gender fusion.

In fact there was a certain barmaid of Kish that not only went on to become patroness of the mystery cults but was also proclaimed King of the World, though her influence didn't extend much beyond Mesopotamia.

It turned out of course that she was a member of the Anunnaki, the Goddess Bau, who along with the likes of Gula and Ninsumen is generally considered a variant of Ninisina, the fairy at the top of the tree, a story to inspire us all.

You'd also have to note the presence of Humbaba in tavern iconography who was associated with the seven aura.

a reply to: jacygirl

Wow i have a fan...

edit on Kam22954vAmerica/ChicagoWednesday2429 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 05:28 AM
a reply to: Kantzveldt

Wow i have a fan...

...and not just one!
If you could start a fan club on ATS, I would be probably in it also : )

Maybe it was mentioned before or it was not...but I wonder how did Sumerians connect with their divinity?
meditation, prayer, fungi or some other psychedelic substance?

Any info whatsoever about their spiritual practices would be very welcomed.
Maybe you already did a thread on ATS about this? If so, can you please provide a link.

I am intrigued about them and their system from what I already learned thanks to you....
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posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 06:32 AM
a reply to: UniFinity

As i mentioned earlier there isn't any discourse on spiritual practise, there's evidence they sought advise through dream but for the Sumerians that's pretty much it, however the key to understanding their system is that of the individual identifying with the Deity, in the narratives they generally behave in a quite regular human manner so it was not difficult to see aspects of yourself within the mythology and others also.

Everybody had their own personal head God according to neighbourhood, status and profession and that Deity was the one you were intended to supplicate, the interests of that Deity reflected your own so it was wise to support their cause and advancement, they didn't have football teams just religious sects.

This actually led to quite a diverse society with each City state having it's own particular relationship to the overall Pantheon, a great many of the records relate to the organizing of festivals and religious holidays which everyone would have been expected to participate in and contribute towards, so religious practise at the mundane level.

Apart from this they also had household Deities the most popular being Inanna and Dumuzid as the idealized romantic couple, the figures representing these they'd involve in little puppet shows chasing Demons out of the house as a sort of exorcism, so personal everyday practise perhaps involved getting the most from your magic figurines.

That basis of practise also extended to the highest magi class cults of which there were three, the shamanic cult of Asallhui representing Enki, the fire purification cult of Kusu representing Enlil, and the invocation cult of Ningirim representing Anu, now those three working together were understood to be able to bring inanimate cultic statues to life, there were a bare minimum of these major shrine statues and they were very highly regarded, none has ever been found.

Maybe everyone should form or join a club named after their personal head God, start a league table and see which one wins, maybe they already do...

edit on Kam22954vAmerica/ChicagoWednesday2429 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 09:20 AM
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I don't think there's any harm in choosing a label that others can relate to, even if the label isn't technically accurate unless you're a member of one of the Tungus tribes. For those of us that aren't born into a traditional tribal structure it's sometimes just a way to get our point across. I'm no more a shaman than I am a witch/adept/sorcerer/psychic/zen-gnostic, et cetera, but at one point or another I've used all those, depending on the audience.

It may not be necessary, but it sometimes makes these things easier. Anyway, that's just my opinion on the matter. I respect yours as well, and I look forward to any further thoughts you have regarding this giant mish-mash of insanity.

posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 10:11 AM
a reply to: Kantzveldt

I have a question.

Why do you want to bring back these "old gods" ?

How do you think it would benefit you or me or the Fuzzy Wuzzy tribesman in Papua New Guinea, the janitor at the stadium, my nephew or dogs?

posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 12:17 PM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I missed all the excitement as usual... and as this is a public forum with no bouncer at the front door, or control over the customer's feelings day-to-day, I fail to see the wisdom in formal pronouncements of leaving as one can lose their taste for the fare, get sick of the decor, feel unappreciated as a patron, etc... and one day the taste for the main dish may return, or at least the convenience of it's location makes it easier to meet someone there.

But one thing ... if humans are conglomerates of parasites, than the "me" that thinks in human terms is an energy critter (termed parasite to distinguish it's difference from former ideas of "soul") that is immortal in some ways, or certainly longer lived than the human bio body, and can thus be termed a "soul" of sorts.

I understand everything dies in our construct and agree with that, though if no info is ever lost than the term "death" needs redefining as well.

Anyway, that is what I awoke with on my mind and wanted to hear views from you and others on the matter.

Defining terms will more often than not, form consensus... but I could be very, very wrong... and I'm fine with that.
edit on 2/24/2016 by Baddogma because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/24/2016 by Baddogma because: rewording to better fit thought

posted on Feb, 24 2016 @ 12:34 PM
a reply to: Baddogma

Just a couple more notes here. I don't want to be one of those idiots who dumps all this "data" and then heads out.

First, Kantzveldt...I'm also highly curious about your motives. It would be a real treat if you were to start a long term chat thread like BD did...and use it to tie together all your posts...and explain what you are attempting to accomplish and why!

That would be totally tubular.

Maybe you would gain some converts!

Let it all hang out and "go for it".

Now I'd like to mention the "dreaded shaman word" again. I'm not going to be upset about silly mischaracterizations..

Rather, I'm grateful for that whole nonsense; as I now have a tasty glass of lemonade to enjoy.

I've been "sitting on the pot" for a long time. I guess that I never felt worthy to give myself some title as there are huge gaps in my knowledge "thus the word failed"

People always want to pin some title on you...and for a liminal person that is mighty uncomfortable.

Do I humor the restless natives? Or do I spend 1/2 my time arguing that I am not "x" whatever "x" is.

But that's not the lemonade.

I REALLY enjoyed Mystic Mushrooms shamans are the lawyers of the spirit world remark. That is a real gift.

Shamans ARE lawyers. They must know the rules of both worlds and help everyone get along.

So I need to decide if I wish to remain a "failed shaman", or get off the toilet.

I'll NEVER know enough to feel any right to the title of Shaman...but that's not the point.

Junior lawyers don't have all the law memorized...but they know how court rooms work and general principles of law.

They are still lawyers.

I like the idea of being an advocate for both sides...with no claims to "enlightenment".
Takes the pressure off, you know.

My title on my ATS profile was "chief bottle washer" for two its less than that.

So I'm pondering whether I'm up for changing from "failed" to "working junior".

Anyway....wishing everyone the very best....and I'm not subscribed in this thread.



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