Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Well, I agree to an extent, but I also think that it's important not to 'devalue' words...

I mean, some of the most beautiful 'artworks' (i.e. poetry and prose) to come out of mankind are beautiful 'because of' the many words used within them.

And actually, one could even make the case that part of the 'de'volution of humanity (the 'dumbing down of us) is our insistence on using as few words as possible, not just in communicating, but even in our more currant literary works.

- for example, look at the works of Shakespeare and Jane Austen:

Because of the large word count and intricacy of the language, these are seen today as works of such 'high' literature that the general public doesn't even consider reading them to be 'entertaining' and would only do so as a requirement in school...

...and yet, back in the day when they were written, the general public (the 'common people') found them just as enjoyable as anyone of higher intellect might do.

(Sorry to pontificate, but just as "The Lorax" speaks for the trees, I feel compelled to speak for the 'beauty' of words )

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I love it too, I'm entranced by it. There's just so much meaning packed into it, and so much truth.

originally posted by: beansidhe

So then, to evade that control and mastery, to slip around in ethereal realms it is necessary to 'think' in the unnamed or as you say 'non-verbal emotional thinking'.

Have I got you right or is that just like textvomit to you?

Well, actually, the "non-verbal emotional thinking" was Kev's concept - and my post that you replied to here was just my description of 'my take' on it, so...

...you would have to ask Kev the "textvomit" question, because I don't even know for sure whether I 'got it right'

But I can say that I really, really love everything you wrote in your reply post - the whole thing about the 'power of names' has always been majorly fascinating to me, and there's even a "Doctor Who" episode ("The Shakespeare Code") where he uses that 'power'...

...funny, just realized that the reference to 'The Doctor' synchronizes to a post I just did here about the value of words.


Oh, p.s. I really love 'Fae lore' too!

....Also, Fairy tales and Folk lore - I have a 'thing' for 'Story' in general -
(my daughter is almost 18, and not only do I refuse to part with childhood storybooks, I find myself 'collecting' new ones from time to time)

a reply to: lostgirl

Well, actually, the "non-verbal emotional thinking" was Kev's concept - and my post that you replied to here was just my description of 'my take' on it, so... ...you would have to ask Kev the "textvomit" question, because I don't even know for sure whether I 'got it right'

Aah, got you. I wanted to check I'd got your interpretation of his concept right....too neurotic?

But I can say that I really, really love everything you wrote in your reply post - the whole thing about the 'power of names' has always been majorly fascinating to me, and there's even a "Doctor Who" episode ("The Shakespeare Code") where he uses that 'power'... ...funny, just realized that the reference to 'The Doctor' synchronizes to a post I just did here about the value of words.

Majorly fascinating to me too, it used to scare me when I was wee, and maybe that's why I spend so much of my adult life searching to learn the names of things. The thought that by defining something or naming something, you give it edges and a boundary - it's caught, frozen in textual aspic - is both a bit creepy, like a butterfly collector or enormously satisfying, in that it can now be stored and brought back out for re-examination.

Yeah, I love words too. Utterly beautiful things.

Some good dialogues guys... and Hey LG, nods to Bean (cast another spell on a dude who is getting to know you, I see, heh) .. .

just wanted to report that the metaphysical popcorn is going strong in Bad's casa... remembered an issue I needed to address about a business thang, one that occurred last week and in a day full of calls and distractions, typed in the phone number and was about to hit the "call" button and the person called me.

That and four instances of synchronicity where a word I was typing was spoken on the TV going in the background.. .and not words like "but" or "and" .. .we're talkin' about the words "toilet" and "Hawaii" ... that I remember, sooooooooo... things are gettin' weeeeeeriiird here.

Or, from a fav tv effort:

a reply to: Baddogma

I like when the phone thing happens, it saves you the bother.

johnb has a good point though, phones and telepathy are somehow inexplicably linked. I remember needing my mother to talk to me (an exceptional occurence, I can promise you) after something pretty bad had happened. She was miles away, I lived in Glasgow at the time. The next morning she called me and said 'did you phone at 2am?' (or whenever it was). The phone had rung, but with no one at the other end. She'd thought it was me.

Her own grandfather had always seen funeral processions going past the window the day before the corpse/person had died. I always wondered if he'd seen his own.

Anyway yes, spells, weirdness, popcorn, I'm up for all of these things.
And can you expound on your invisible fauna notes for us? I'm curious.

a reply to: beansidhe

As far as invisible fauna, I was waiting for our fav shaman to discuss "the feathered serpent" etc., from a few pages back.

I have no real insight to offer other than noting that as well as invisible remnants of humans around, there seems to be invisible, less intelligent remnants that could very well be considered fauna of the universe(s).

I have no real "psychic" insight... I don't have the third eye microscope that some do, but those that say they have assert a whole biome of critters. Some that use us for energetic sustenance and some that just go about their business.

Also, these critters can be visible at times and seem to show up as different things, maybe depending on the brain perceiving them? Dunno.

My own experiences with invisible whatsits include intelligent responses and actions, as well as what seem like dumb animals passing by.. .that's all.

eta: one interesting critter that comes up again and again with shamanism, especially, is the "World Snake" ... something I may have glimpsed once when sampling exotic concoctions... an immense, scaled snake that ...well, that's pretty much it... I saw that the earth was really on the back of a huge snake (or the portion of earth I was on) and then I read some anthro works where the shaman matter-of-factually said "Yeah, that's so and so, the world snake" and it made me wonder why there were these common visions ... maybe our brain's structure, maybe a reality, probably both.

a reply to: lostgirl

Yes, Jane Austin and Shakesphere totally suck according to my wife who almost worships words.

I say that words can at most point to beauty.

Like a finger pointing at the moon....if you want to get all classic mystical.

But I'm not going to fuss about slivers of shades of meaning in this case.

Kev

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I love it too, I'm entranced by it. There's just so much meaning packed into it, and so much truth.

So much truth if you already know the big picture beforehand in many cases.

But yes...feed me non-stop fae lore until I overdose and accidentally snotblast my cat.

She who must be obeyed loves it....and like any good shaman I'm tethered to her by choice.

Why do you (any of you) think I do that willingly?

Kev

a reply to: Baddogma

That's Jormungandr:

According to the Prose Edda, Odin took Loki's three children by Angrboða, the wolf Fenrir, Hel, and Jörmungandr, and tossed Jörmungandr into the great ocean that encircles Midgard.[2] The serpent grew so large that he was able to surround the earth and grasp his own tail.

wiki again

I love how these images appear transglobally (tee hee), and archetypes are all well and good but they fall short of the 'why', which is where I always want to go.

Also, these critters can be visible at times and seem to show up as different things, maybe depending on the brain perceiving them? Dunno.

Yes, we tune in like radios maybe. Or tune out, mostly. You said earlier that these things don't always happen when we think about them and you're right, some catch you completely unaware. Phenomena seems to increase when you go looking for it, but not always.

I saw that the earth was really on the back of a huge snake (or the portion of earth I was on) and then I read some anthro works where the shaman matter-of-factually said "Yeah, that's so and so, the world snake" and it made me wonder why there were these common visions ... maybe our brain's structure, maybe a reality, probably both.

I like hearing shaman stories because I don't know any, it's something very new and 'foreign' to me. I particularly like hearing the parallels to stories I know, there's something very reassuring about that, a shared human culture.
You make me think of Allan Schore and his work on early infant trauma and brain development; emotional dysregulation can leave the brain physically malformed. Scary stuff.

Why is it no longer the 1960's when all manner of unethical psychological experiements could be done? A raft of volunteers could be chosen, sorted out by brain structure 'standards' and assisted with some exotic concoctions. Would each group share the same themes/visions or would there be consensus throughout the group? It's probably just as well those days are past, but..but..hmmm.

Your insights are splendid by the way, don't doubt that. I'll look forward to more on the feathered serpent from anyone, anytime.

a reply to: Baddogma

World Snakes (note the second s) as in two of them...As in the two lovers.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear



I'll dose it out in small portions to keep the snotblasting non-lethal.

So much truth if you already know the big picture beforehand in many cases.

That is the most fun of all, peering behind the veil and being even more entranced by what you see there.

a reply to: beansidhe

Pappa snake gets all the fanfare...But there are definitely two.

Its strange how mamma gets ignored.

Patriarchical corruption I guess.

a reply to: beansidhe

My kitty thanks you.

I'm actually not fully joking....it happened once...the poor thing.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Religion and spiritual experiences serve their purpose in my opinion. I see it as an imaginary stairs. Many religions are essentially the same at the core but different outside of it. At the beginning of the stairs is Christianity, Islam or other abrahamic religions. They teach a bit of essential theoretical spiritual wisdoms without any practical implications like various spiritual practices like meditation. Than the further you go up the stairs, more practical spiritual wisdoms are included and less theory. More experiences are valued and not blind faith.

Almost at the top of the stairs I would put buddhism, zen and similar religions where practice and various experiences are more important than blind beliefs. And at the top of the stairs are the people outside any religions, who want to find the truth for themselves, so called spiritual people and mystics. These people searches within and without in all religions and spiritual text. And try to figure out their real Self.

And outside of the stairs are the people who have figured it out that it is all mainly a sham and useless, like you and many others who have ended their spiritual journey and have figured out true religion, yoga or spirituality. Interestingly, atheists fall in that category also (no stairs : ) ) and I think maybe they would be very successful if such a person decided to find his real Self.

Scientific method is very good (but not the best) as you said and such people are using it a lot. But unfortunately any method of thinking cannot help if base premise is false. Which is in the case of science that we are ONLY body and mind. Pity!

So for me it seems everyone can choose what seems best suited for them. And if a person so desires he can climb the stairs or stay where he is. Now if a person is not mentally mature enough or he stopped developing, than he will get into some trap sooner or later, there are many. And traps are here with a reason and also server their purpose. Learning!

It seems to me at least, that "the system" is rigged in such a way, that a few can really climb all the stairs. But it is possible and a lot information is available on the internet. Thank god for that! So while our present state is far from perfect, there is still small chance of catching the truth if one has enough desire and dedication.

And that for me is the purpose or religions.

about other part of your post:
I really cannot understand how did we go so far of the track? I mean we started okey, did we not? At some point we were all connected with nature, waaay back.
What changed? it seems like we have amnesia and have forgotten a few things to say the least. Or is all of it just a result of continuous unnatural living when we started to form big societies where love for power got bigger then power of love?

I have my theory about long forgotten ancient global civilization, when things were as they should have been today. Where the extent of our true potential was obvious and real knowledge was spread around. This were the times where inverse of your statement was true. Maybe I will some day experiance the truth about this, whatever it is! I have read about seeing the past or the future in advanced levels.

any thoughts welcomed from all posters!?

a reply to: UniFinity

This:

The Fall: The Insanity of the Ego in Human History and the Dawning of A New Era
by Steve Taylor

Read it or be forever ignorant about "what happened"

or to sum it up:

"Patriarchy" destroyed the world.

If that interests you, then also read this:

Return to the Brain of Eden: Restoring the Connection between Neurochemistry and Consciousness by Tony Wright and Graham Gynn

May not be 100% correct but it's very helpful.

And if you must, you can bring in "She who must be obeyed" .. who humans created for the most part.

But really.. someone besides Lost Girl (who has a leg up on some of you) read "The Fall"!!!
I show favortism to people who read that book! (come on "boy" take the gift -- Another Q quote).
But don't feel bad if you hate part 3 of 3 ---- it's total gibberish. But parts I and II - pure GOLD.

If there's one thing I want to get through to some folks, is this thing that there is a "mystical path".

What's wrong with "just living" and sure there are paths. All sorts of them.

But does it have to be all super secret sacred and exciting? With a mystical decoder ring and all that?

Can't we just be people who are interested in a a variety of stuff ... some very "earthy" and some very
"airy"?

It's all science you know.. every last drop of it. Or all "religion" sigh* but lets go with science.. it's classier.

The reason I'm harping on this.. is that I love me a good sciency book just as much as a good shamany book.. and there should be no "difference" on the "path" no matter what you call it - science or shamanism say.

Oh sure, we look the other way with "woo".
But science does that too.. they just don't admit it "translated to initial postulates; laws of nature; over excitable theories taken as defacto "; philosophical prejudices baked into the system from day one.

Now mind you, I'll take "Vitamin D deficiency" over "Infected with Wampum Spirit" for a diagnoses every single day.

I'm not ashamed of "woo stuff" at all.. we are merely in the beginning of a new science, like Alchemy became chemistry..
or we are just WRONG.

But seeing if something is WRONG or "maybe something is there after all" is the very ESSENCE OF SCIENCE.

Do we gotta be on a mystical path? Can't we just let it go?

Or am I harping about Symantecs more than anything?

Language is both powerful and INNATELY corrupting.

Kev

Well, kpb, I will read those books... and quit procrastinating...put them at the top of my Amazon list... however I won't have a thought about them until I read them, obviously, but they are right up my own alley, so I will...

and want to report further oddness, in that a food item I had used up in my household and forgotten to acquire on my last sojourn to a store, appeared right when needed, on a shelf that it most certainly was NOT on a few moments before.

Crushed red peppers in a little packet like one would get from a pizza delivery in the U.S., should anyone care (and I don't see why they would).

Why and how? And why this flurry of weirdness lately? Inner or external ...or both? My brain or some being looking over my shoulder and playing around?

I hesitate even mentioning it as it seems so... well, you know... a cry for attention, a feeble attempt at entertainment... but there it is.

At least this is nothing but odd and helpful... but still, why now? And ever have an internal sentence echoed on the radio a moment after thinking it? There was that, too... a few minutes ago as I drove around, as well as myriad sensations on my legs as if something was touching me all last night and this morning... so much so that I fear I might have neurological problems (more than usual, anyway).

Anyway, any ideas why from anyone? Aside from the obvious, which is I'm thinking of it and either a hallucination or spinning it out of the aether... but it's getting hard to ignore.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Thanks for titles, I will check them out and see if they are good for me.

no you are right. There should be no separation. We are all many things, not just one. This is our nature. But people like to be people and judge things and label everything as good or bad, weird or normal,...

It sucks I agree!

I also love reading a lot about many other subjects and I love to watch a good documentary on just about anything. And there are also many other things I love to do...

So I should say. With knowing myself better, I can live better.
So "mystical path" is not much of a path at all for me, but a deeper level of knowing what I really am, like and should do.

Well for some it is or it could be, we are all different. And that is ok too! : )

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I think people's paths can be both mystical and science, mine has been...

...I mean, like when I read that first quantum physics book, it was a very 'spiritual' experience - I had some amazing insights, actually felt kind of magical.

Hey, what if it's the "Wampum Spirit" that causes "Vitamin D deficiency"?

a reply to: Baddogma

Mysteriously appearing red peppers and "sensations" on your legs....

hhhmmmm...maybe "she who must be obeyed" thinks your life needs some spicing up?