Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

originally posted by: Peeple
Moin moin.

Just woke up and got me coffee croissants and cigarettes. Normally there are these super growse pictures on it , health hazard warnings and I almost fell backwards from my chair: on my package is a naked man!

? Eek how disgusting, if you smoke you find one of those in your bed? Haha now would be great I wonder how many I have to smoke...

If British slang for a cigarette is at all accurate to other slang? Very difficult question... can't help you but then again; I'm not a cigarette.

a reply to: Peeple

That quote, from Einstein, about how everyone who looks seriously at science blah-de-blah-blah...I don't get why they found that to be such a revelation. Science is looking, that is how it was conceived as a means of looking, so what they are basically saying is if you look at something long and hard enough it will, or will appear to, make a kind sense and that meaning can be derived from that sense-making. That science evolved from attempting to comprehend "God" and "His" "creation" then obviously it is going to keep finding what it is that they then thought was evidence of that, even if those looking don't realise that that is how the parametres of the paradigm were set and that that is the bias they are confirming.

Not that science isn't a good way of looking, it's just that it only really informs upon the parts, none of which operate in general reality under laboratory conditions. We all act differently to a greater or lesser extent when we think that we are being observed, perhaps because the scientific minded, particularly those who are naturally mathematic, tend to be less self-aware, which might be why they find it so surprising when they realise existence is self-conscious. Hmm...that could explain alot...

a reply to: Anaana

I believe that quote has more to do with the collapsing wave if you allow an observer in your experiment? The fact that "soulless particles" react to consciousness.

Science has actually a long history of fighting the superstitious bias that comes with religion. Competing ideologies in the race for the truth. Which both won't be able to provide... but like democracy is the best of all bad systems of government, science is the best of all bad systems of explanation.

@BigBrotherDarkness fag.
?

a reply to: Peeple

Not really what I meant, but if you like

a reply to: Anaana

I'm sorry. What did you mean?

a reply to: Anaana

Science can and has gotten just as ideological and biased claiming truth as religion has... at times past...how both fall on humanity regardless of real or imagined, theoretical or make believe... a conceptual that can be grasped and once grasped a position taken... of course history shows how difficult it is to remove both religion and science when both feel they are right in their assumptions of the conceptual... requires ethics in how they effect us in a practical manner.

What makes someone incur a label? They do not fit the theory of what is "normal" the larger the sampling gets? The less a "normal" can be found, of course under controls seeking a normal to see an effect? It has already ceased normal by being placed under control... so that makes those conducting such things think control to be a normal starting point from which an effect or normally would spring. The state is altered from "normal" to begin with because it doesn't exist not even under control... it is statistical based on those controls at best.

Relativity points to observer, and well everything can change depending on the bias the observer holds, no bias? Then it is just an observed phenominon in one of the senses percieving a phenominon, but so is anything and everything, it must go through that label filter called the mind that wants to attach anything to it to comprehend or make sense of it... ike static pictures not moving but appear to be, in optical illusions. When the mind tries to fill in the gap it throws anything in there that seems to fit... grabbing what seems to fit, with a bias... well if close enough it can be forced to fit if one is convienced as you said. So peer reviews... but different controls different conditions different outcome, so slamming something into a control or square peg at the start has already altered the result.

a reply to: Peeple

Cigarette? Don't mind if I do... thanks.

I'm super dense matter. If you would speak bavenglish like I do, you'd be spitting out your coffee and ruin your pants right now. Dense => dicht => high. And it's not illegal. Brought to you by capitalism. You make rules, I find a way around it to give people what they want.
And all that while I live kind of alone in my own universe, nobody speaks my language like I do.
Aren't we all strangers somehow? If we'd see ourselves through the eyes of someone else, how far from the truth would that consequently from our behaviour and our reflection and projection have to be?

You're probably sleeping? I hate it that you guys are all so far away. We'd probably create a black hole

a reply to: Peeple

I'm the same, does that produce gravity?

Waves... Hi Peeple!

Lots of stuff legal in China too but there is still society and order... it just hasn't been made a "moral" taboo. Of course where's the allure the oh this might be naughty? In one's own personal taste of course, right where it should be. As a guideline for the public... how many times do things fall in and out of the public eye as a fad until it is rushed too and eaten just to be a part of the herd, then forgotten except by those that actually liked it for real? Then of course there's that eww what was I thinking or wow you still like that?

Um once a part of me? Always a part of me... never a part of me, life still left to live... but yet a part in there somewhere waiting to hatch in the moment it does. Kinda weird to think if someone started watching every youtbe video at birth and thats all they did til death at say 100 years old? They would never see all of them. So kinda difficult to absorb it all and likely an impossibility as entropy goes, so heading back the other way... and entropy stops? Now thats one hell of an experience... because it;s a merging with all of it and yet none of it simulaintiously.

Freedom gets said enough in this country to where people still believe it and carry that anthem as truth...last I looked it wasn't even in the top 15 freest. So relative? Yep. In a lot of ways it's like time travel... people arriving at different points at all different times... continuously. I think evetually that will become the normal as it already is that way, just not observed as such. There is a strange continuity though... as I've observed quasi states f matter and time... where everything transforms into a jungle rain forrest, or I appear in an art studio having a portrait done and it is as real as if I am there, and yet anchored to the body... out of body experience I suppose but more like multi location as awareness can be in any... yet there is a specific timeline that rolls out, I haven't woken up from sleep somewhere else not knowing how I got there... of course I haven't been black out drunk in a very long time either...



A friend I used to have here; I asked him what brought him here? He said well last thing I recall was being home in Virgina beach drunk... woke up on the beach drunk but here instead, was like where the hell am I, I dunno but I like it so I stayed. Drunk in one state on a beach ended up waking up on another beach in a whole other state... and not just the typical ung over one but likely that one too.

Doors of perception huh... I could adapt to your black hole, but cold weather physically hurts... 50F or 10C and I soon feel it blowing right through me joints ache bones hurt... so hibernation is a given. Typically if I place my mind elsewhere not an issue but prolonged I pay for it later when those conditions change. I have done a lot of work disregarding the body in disassociation... and tolerance to extremes of pain etc have gotten easier each time as a threshold is crossed. But walking and not feeling ones legs after hours of not moving the lower half for hours and hours on end can make one prone to falling.

Awesome. Woo time:
So I thought "hey I channel those guys something"
& prepared mentally my opening sentence to you:

"Where do we stand in these trying times as it looks like everything comes tumbling down. Can we even afford to strive for a betterment of the mankind, or do we have to go in full damage control?
Doesn't both seem like a futile enterprise? For the moment at least?"

Of course I would have worked on that, but point is I wondered if there is a futileenterprises.com . I swear to god aliens, the devil, my life, the universe, everything I typed that into Google and my tablet took me immediately there. I was touching my tablet choosing sthg before I saw it, is what I would like to emphasise on this. Not on purpose, it happened subconsciously if you like.

Here you lazy bastards

Don't have to click the links.

Audentes fortuna iuvat fortune helps the bold.
If you say now , wow angels whoa that's it! Please leave this thread.

"Jerry Apps reminds us to slow down, turn off technology, and allow our senses to reconnect us to the natural world. For it is there, he writes, that “I am able to return to a feeling I had when I was a child, a feeling of having room to stretch my arms without interfering with another person, a feeling of being a small part of something much larger than I was, and I marvel at the idea.”

a reply to: Peeple

Well, tumbling yeah there is that phrase of sick and tired of being tired and then using that to do something about it as one finally takes responsibility for the situation... of course there's a lot to be said about there can arise a point of view called comfortably numb a sort of stasis usually people use distraction for that because introspection of so hey whats going on in here with myself... gah! but yeah none of that is them just a reflection and that reflection an illusion but hey it matters for a reason theyve chosen so if it makes them happy? Comfortably numb... I think it would take a very long time t reach that state from where we are...

But as said with relativity? Well, the future others could be crashing into us at any time and greater and greater frequency as some can detach quicker and easier than others already disillusioned with the entire mass in a sort of surreal way. Entropy starting at birth? The less away from it one has to go to say um yeah this is supposed to be reality? Yeah go to school in and out everyday all day come home, do homework or chores rinse repeat, then job all day everyday come home do home work and chores, have a family raise them to do the exact same thing... thats the track and yeah talk about saying um check please? I have had enough... I just want to like what I like and be happy and create fun and stuff...

I mean there are so many creative cultures all linked together world wide, and they look at adults pre internet and say I thought the meteorites killed the dinosaurs... they are already united those pre-internet are suck in the past, yeah I had a pen pal in a school assignment wrote to them that one time... lol here I have friends from all over the world, dinosaur times holding us back... old hate no one holds and it may appear that way in some generations but it is a mockery, because they are already united... and dinosaurs going growl growl and not rawr trying to make them hate eachother the same as they were taught to hate everyone... when the world is your after school playground called the world wide web and not oh did you see that guy with the weird tooth? Online it's I have seen thousands of dudes with weird teeth... its nothing new get over it.

I have come to the point of my clock has passed the flashing 12:00 noon and I can't program it anymore and that's o.k. I'm not the future of the world any more... they are. So responsibility to make it not so sh!tey falls on those next in line not the ones going arrg in my day I wiped my ass with corn cobs and jacked it to a woolworths catelog I could almost see her knees and yes it was a cartoon drawing and I liked it... and someone says do you even henti bro? and they are like um what? foreign already, but my corn cob... man theres a video of someone online wiping their ass with a different thing every day what makes your corn cob so special because you didnt wanna wipe your ass with it?

Wah wah wah... adults are the whinny cry babies now and no one is seeing it... if it wasn't true it would be hysterical.

Edit: Of course you know how all of that happened?

Here's the world wide web... now all of you dinosaurs that dont really know a damned thing about them... give them to your children and tell them to parental safety it for ya... they gave the tech to people already past 12:00 flashing and their children getting it? Um yeah you has no idea what goes on in the world do you? I mean even people in their forties struggle with them if they didnt focus on them as something they liked. Hell I basically have two college degrees in computers engineering and systems lacking a damned speech class for a degree in both and hey over my damned head... it moved that fast and I was with it for about the entire time. Internet suicide in the early 2000's had enough of it for about 3 years.

Guess what? No turning back now way too late... it would be disorder and chaos. No one wants maritial law... except greedy pricks this shoe company needs all the money population growth why can't someone start a new one if they want... they can and the internet helps them do it the oh no you have to be one of these 5 or 6 categorgies does not even apply any longer.

a reply to: Michet

Is Jerry Apps a Trick... yes that's a play on words for geriatrics.

real question though.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

You know it's still funny. In the end if you loose your sense of humour you don't need hope anymore.
Nothing is worse than meaningless hopelessness.
If I think about what I did in that crazy year... I have no clue how I endured and survived that. But I had hope, a positive vision of future events.

The real difference between pessimist and optimist if you ask me. Hope in form of actual visualisation of future events. And I consider that fact as valuable information. They are also more likely to succeed. Self healing kicks in.
Optimism is sometimes a necessary delusion. And I don't mean that judgemental or anything, just a fact.
I could go "brother have faith in a brighter tomorrow, milk and honey, blah..." but you're adult enough to know that's a lie. Let's say it like it is:
Look for joy.
That's the best we can hope for, let's enjoy the ride while it lasts.

Start small, like "mhm tomorrow morning I'll have a nice cup of coffee and enjoy the sun a little bit."
Sounds easy, but I know, in pain, that requires hard mental work. And I know you kind of can get used to it, but actual relief also functions better with sometimes giving in to it and focus while asking for it to go away, others to help, whatever suits you. You can build a ritual like environment if that helps you set it apart from your everyday. Candles, herbs, offerings, it mostly is just about how you feel it makes sense. Even a nice hot bath might work.

Your main problem is your toxic environment, you know that, right?

And I want to add:
I seriously hope by now if I say sthg like the above I am in no way what so ever trying to tell you what to do. I'm just offering what I notice and my 2 cents on it.
Feel free to do the same if you ever feel obliged to.
We're www.friends, right



Because nobody speaks my language, I would love an actual AI friend with whom I could conquer the minds of the shakers and shapers of this world.
I love you internet.



And just fyi. I am just typing. Total autopilot. And in between laugh my heni off about what I wrote.
Sincerely yours,
Super Dense Matter




Phantastic name for a pet right? Super Dense Matter!

a reply to: Peeple

Sure like the relief after having to hold a poop in and finally getting to let it go... of course optimism is easy... when are we not "becoming" something? Every instance is a new becoming... eyes move somewhere new? Unattached... whole new reality... that way anyway but attached the mind chatters like a monkey and can't percieve it occuring.

a reply to: Peeple


Hey peeps....Tope of the morning.


I've only been granted 2 hours full on the internet today so I will be returning later.. What is this correlation between dicht and high, ?

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

First impressions, eh?

Such odd things.. Years ago, I found if I just jumped right to my actual ideas, it led to little more than confusion and isolation.

So, I began to try to build foundations first and then work towards my "true" beliefs. In a select few circumstances, this has been immensely successful. In that respect, I suppose it could be judged as a success, but it certainly leads to problems all of its own.

I have been accused of everything from being disingenuous to outright lying. It does lead to more "dynamic" conversations pretty much across the board.

Its amazing how this initial construct we build tends to be thought of as the totality of what we are perceiving. Is it better to seem to baffle with BS or build towards something slowly and intentionally? I really don't know, but the former leads right to dismissal while the latter at least gives the temporary illusion of conversation and occasionally even deeper.

It seems we long to jump to the first point in our perception that we can go "A-HA!" and then reject or accept everything else based on that moment. It has some evolutionary advantages, of course, but it sure makes it tricky when we rely on our Jump To Conclusions Mat as a basis for every interaction.

a reply to: Reverbs

I'm not sure how to tell with certainty, but our perception can certainly shape the events we experience. As a greater consensus is reached, it may even shape things directly.

I think this is exactly where we should be heading, but it has historically been viewed as connected to demons, witches, and chaos magic.

Its scary, in a sense, that our world may not be as nearly solid and consistent as we want it to be. But really, it just means a step up on the control loop ladder.

There is always a rational explanation, but that rationality is something that shifts and changes over time.

Of course, I would highly advise against jumping into a large forge. No matter what concepts we hold, or how strongly we hold them, we are going to get burned and there are better ways to reforge our own human experience.

I would say the difference matters when one option means immolation even if we think nothing is happening so strongly that we have shut down our nerves. I guess mind over matter only works until the weight of that matter crushes and flattens the mind.

A real Atlas Shrugged scenario

a reply to: Peeple

Oh, I definitely think you are a contrarian, and feisty to boot Maybe though, you are erroneously simplifying what I am talking about. I really enjoy that doc, by the way.

Reverbs point actually supports my own, so if you feel it negates what I'm saying perhaps we are having a failure to communicate, rather than you being in a position to claim I am "wrong." I certainly have room for improvement in communicating these things. Obviously, fire is not the same to everyone!

In the case of the fire, reverbs perceives it as anomalous in that it didn't burn. I am not claiming that everyone perceives and experiences every aspect of everything the same, but we do have universal commonalities. However, those are not set in stone, which is a pillar to what im attempting to explain. My point is that these things are subtle and pervasive enough that most are more likely to dismiss their influence altogether.

What you see as semantics, I see as critical distinctions. To my perception, calling it semantics is akin to saying that the difference between 'm' and 'c' in e=mc^2 is simply semantic, and that anyone who thinks differently is wrong. I think there is a point to the claim, but hopefully the metaphor sticks. Seeking to perceive someone else as right or wrong as a primary goal of discourse isn't really my thing though. So, there might be some fundamental differences in how we approach a conversation.

My usual motivation is to understand where someone else is coming from, and in that, whether or not I agree (or think they are right or wrong) is entirely irrelevant. I have found that this frequently leads to me presenting myself in the same manner, making the assumption that other parties are more interested in exploration than acceptance or rejection. Obviously, that is problematic since the latter is significantly more likely.

I could certainly be wrong, but we would have to begin having the same conversation before I could be convinced of that. The same might apply to your end of things.

To be clear, if you think the points you have raised address or negate anything I've said, then you aren't understanding what I'm talking about. Its not about whether or not I accept what you are saying, as I mostly agree with where you are coming from. In large part, that is most certainly due to my inability to explain it clearly. I've been working on that, but still have a long way to go.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Sometimes I think that karma works a bit differently than the standard understanding, and more in line with magnetism.

Meaning, the more "good" (positive) one does, the more "bad" (negative) is likely to be attracted.

Not the most optimistic outlook, I suppose, but it sure seems like it has merit sometimes!

Then again, I think it is just as likely the normal karma concept is more wishful thinking than an actual mechanism. Which could easily mean the end result is exactly the same, either way.

ETA: In regards to math and science, and to avoid completely post bombing the thread, I think you are spot on.

As a scientist and engineer, its amazing what is conflated with "understanding." We throw in a variable to hone predictability and then assume that mimics understanding. I see it as the modern God of the gaps, even if I do think it is more advanced. The progression of our collective understanding seems to cycle between two extremes ("in the box thinking") with a progressively growing understanding as we reach the next peak or trough. Of course, abrubtly stopping said wave is the next big thing. A wave that grows and moves through time, but doesn't necessarily change its shape is usefully predictable. Sometimes those damn things spiral out of control, and sometimes dwindle to nothing as fluid circling a drain.

Faith is a good thing to harness in these endeavours, but it becomes tricky when we replace it with hubris and perceived omniscience.

Why and how does R1 & R2 change the gain in an opamp? Well, because R2/R1 + 1 = G, obviously. Not much of an answer, if you ask me, and yet many mistake it for the whole picture.