Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

Love catching up here and as usual more questions arise from our collective musings.

When things 'click' and we understand/gain a new insight/understanding but our words fail us and we cannot define it to ourself or others can we really claim to understand it.

From a scientific viewpoint I would say no we don't really understand it if we can't explain it.

However from an 'internal' viewpoint we do seem to understand or perhaps intuit is a better word (perhaps not ) the 'truth' of that thought/action.

Confuses me no end - how can i 'know' something but be unable to share that knowledge even with myself - strange indeed.

I am struggling for some sort of analogy and i'll go with this for now:

I understand video calling works but it is way beyond my understanding how some bits of metal and plastic mixed up in just the right way can transmit images and sounds to anywhere else on this planet but I do 'know' it works.

A thought strikes me now that most technology is based on magical/mystical ideals from the past like the above.

Man sees fairies/aliens whatever flying - aircraft
We see beings apparently communicating telepathically over long distance - telecommunications

OOh another thought intercedes - what if telephones don't actually work and we are all using telepathy unknowingly, enabled by our 'magic' telecommunication devices

Ok my head is going off in too many directions again, concentrate you fool or perhaps i should unconcentrate and just drift for now.

a reply to: johnb

I awake from drooling unconsciousness brought on by a political thread, click my mousey and find this gem:

what if telephones don't actually work and we are all using telepathy unknowingly, enabled by our 'magic' telecommunication devices

Heh, I like it.

I now return to the land of Nod and the arms of Morpheus (or some black guy in stylish pince nez sunglasses... could be Rudy from 2G), hopefully in my creepy bedroom and not on this desk as it is not good for slumber... and by all means shoot the breeze about European cities, or what not... if you guys discussed the rate of moisture evaporating from latex paint it would be more interesting than 1/2 the stuff on the internets.. .continue as you see fit, but at some point I wanna delve into invisible fauna... and I haven't much to offer except my few notes on their effects and what I've read from oodles of books, but g'night from the desert.

a reply to: johnb

Heheh - talking to myself again.

Male ego's yes very fragile indeed but what else can we expect when males have been trained over millennia to be 'strong' unemotional and use their physical strength rather than their emotions/minds to solve things.(Perhaps it is the female of the species who run things after all)

ying/yang, light/dark, male/female - Duality or is it just about balance or I am missing the point?

Phenomenology - what a great word and one i have not come across before so had a look and wiki states:

Phenomenology should not be considered as a unitary movement; rather, different authors share a common family resemblance but also with many significant differences. Accordingly, “A unique and final definition of phenomenology is dangerous and perhaps even paradoxical as it lacks a thematic focus. In fact, it is not a doctrine, nor a philosophical school, but rather a style of thought, a method, an open and ever-renewed experience having different results, and this may disorient anyone wishing to define the meaning of phenomenology”

Is this an example of understanding but being 'unable' to explain through language?

It has been said around 90% of face to face interaction and communication is non verbal so we can and do communicate non verbally all the time - we can easily tell when somebody is scared or angry for instance by their facial expression,stance and who hasn't walked into a room with an 'atmosphere you could cut with a knife'?

I/we understand this but i couldn't explain how I knew there had just been an argument/or a fight was about to break out... you just 'feel' it.

Strangely (to me) this is something I have never really thought about before - in some ways this is akin to being 'streetwise' as in if you are truly in touch with your surroundings be that the street, savannah or jungle you begin to anticipate dangers /opportunities before they appear/happen.

Would this perhaps be some of the first steps of getting in touch with whatever it is that is inside/out there? Does it matter whether you go out or in first - i suspect going in first would be more helpful.

Brain dump ended for now again.

a reply to: johnb

Phenomena(logy)....

I've been guilty of using words that sound right but of which I've lost the true meanings... or spell check/predictive texting makes a choice in place of the one I was trying for... in this use, I'm fairly sure it was the first case, but I was going for the world of objects and events, rather than the conceptual realms, and ended up with an accidental almost poignancy... but actual crap... Heh...

a reply to: Serdgiam

Yes.

The Fall: The Insanity of the Ego in Human History and the Dawning of A New Era
by Steve Taylor

Return to the Brain of Eden: Restoring the Connection between Neurochemistry and Consciousness by Tony Wright and Graham Gynn

The Third Chimpanzee: The Evolution and Future of the Human Animal
by Jared M. Diamond

a reply to: lostgirl

And I can almost articulate why that's brilliant!

originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

would you care to explain this part:

Some people call "non-verbal thinking" Grokking.
Some people call "realization-avoidant rational thinking" Priming.

These are great, great tools.

Each technique is worth several pages of discussion and (more importantly) examples.

what are all the stages in your opinion and if you would maybe throw in one short example for each if that is not to much.

If I spoon feed you, then I"ll feel like your mother..

I don't want to feel like your mother.

Why don't you do the work of taking a spoon full of food laying on the table, and see if you can figure it out on your own? It's forming brain connections (and "other connections" if you want to think that way) which is what matters. And you can only do that by "doing the work".

Kev

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Yeah no, if you would live here you'd see how messed up germans are. Super anal about the facade dirty pigs about the interieur. Not exactly what i like. They keep it tidy to hide the schizophrenic mess.
Show a german a line and he will wait in it, even if he doesn't know what for. Massive alcohol issues and also elitist racists... I hate it, but maybe i would hate every other country too, if i would know them better.

I like France and italy. But thanks for not going all nazi on me. That's what usually happens...

I'm the guy whose Identified with Race was exterminated by people from Europe; I don't "go Nazi".

Besides, "that kind of ugliness" lives in most people (in the black sludge monster". It comes out easily enough.

I found France to be just as pretentious and self-worshiping as most other countries.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

And that non verbal thought is where telepathy oozes from, but it's piss-poor when trying to, for example, put an atomic bomb together or explaining how to tie one's shoes... if it wasn't we wouldn't be in the pickle we find ourselves in... our collective "fall" where we hit all the 'ugly' branches on the way down.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear
Half of my own race background was exterminated by Europeans and Asians, both, forever... but the black sludge can suck it 'cause I dislike it's preferred environs.

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

And that non verbal thought is where telepathy oozes from, but it's piss-poor when trying to, for example, put an atomic bomb together or explaining how to tie one's shoes... if it wasn't we wouldn't be in the pickle we find ourselves in... our collective "fall" where we hit all the 'ugly' branches on the way down.

The "fall" happened, because we got stuck in one mode of thinking; spirituality is the attempt to fix that error.

If you can't explain the Universe in one sentence, you have no business talking about it.

(help me! I can't turn off the sound bites)

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

thanks. you told me more than enough anyway with that.

practice makes perfect : )

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Honk if you're horny!

originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

thanks. you told me more than enough anyway with that.

practice makes perfect : )

Told you enough to get started.

I used to go ALL DAY, even at work staying in non-verbal mode.

Words lose their corruptive power once you no longer need them.

If you use words sparingly then each word becomes magical.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

that probably took a huge effort, and maybe a few funny situations to be like that at work ? : )

It never ceases to amaze me in what kinda universe we live in, I am only getting started to experiance it and that makes me very excited. It takes some effort to realize this part. And it is a pity we like distractions so much so we are overlooking who we are on such basic level.

a reply to: UniFinity

There Is nothing More distracting than religion AND spiritual experience; and nothing more likely to keep one ignorant.

In our current age, 95% unlearning and 5% learning is a good start.

I would enjoy an age where the inverse was beneficial.

Kevin

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Well, I'm well on my way to unlearnin' ... I've managed to wipe most of the data I've accumulated and am fully living in the long moment of now.. . does it show?

Somehow, I think I'm missing a shade of nuance to your meaning... and know it is directed at another, and offer it is a willful misunderstanding in hopes others reading will read a further explanation of your take on the deconstruction/ reconstruction of the mental map.

originally posted by: Baddogma
.. .continue as you see fit, but at some point I wanna delve into invisible fauna... and I haven't much to offer except my few notes on their effects and what I've read from oodles of books, but g'night from the desert.

Thanks for the permission to abuse the general weirdness part of your thread.

You want invisible fauna? All the dirty critters sneaking up on you and making you rub yourself? I don't know if I can be of service. Aliens, or no Aliens, is more my area...

and with that to you:
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

what about the alpha predators? What do you think why in all the alien channeling the change of our mythology plays such a huge role?

a reply to: Baddogma

*** Heavy Sigh ***

Tell me why I wrote that.

Kev

a reply to: Peeple

Until you know who/what/how humanity has itself stick in a Chinese finger trap with, you can try to summon critters and read every BS book ever printed and it will avail you not.

If I just "tell you" you won't be able to distinguish my answer from all the twaddle in the world.

I'd have to show you...or trick you into showing yourself.

Comprende Kimo Sabe?

Kev