Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: Baddogma

I've never met a truly serious student of these matters in my entire life...I barely qualify...so it really doesn't matter what I say or don't say.

But you are correct....this has been interesting....been a dipping of my toe into a different world.

I have had a film producer ask me to write a screenplay. I can't find any interest.

I have had a very famous author (in these circles) ask me to write a book. I can't find any interest.

Bailed on 2 podcasts.

Passed on being a big wig in a spiritual school.

Passed on 'all power' (don't ask - it was BS anyway).

I guess I can find just find enough interest to have a Little fun on ATS if nobody pushes too much.

It's really true about how these things work out...by the time you know, it barely matters anymore.

Yah male egos are an interesting case study.

Kev

a reply to: beansidhe

I love heathens...they yearn for truth and beauty instead of heaven.

Kev

a reply to: UniFinity

Non-verbal thinking is what babies do...and animals.

I was aware in the womb so it was easy to carry forward.

Just think with Your feelings...no need for words.

It's only words that chop things up. Only words which confuse.

When you stop polluting yourself with mysticism, spirituality and religion, the war between man and nature is over.

The symbiotic lives flow one into the other.

Kev

originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: MystikMushroom

well you sure had unusual dream.

maybe translation is:
you desire german beer and an Apple

: )

Yes! it is great when you can realize you are dreaming. I have gotten used to look at my hands often while I am dreaming and this is like a trigger for me - if everything goes well I immediately remember I am in a dream due to the hands being a bit messed up and then start wondering about consciously ...

I think Apple is hacking into my dreams via the Apple Watch I was wearing last night.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

A professional hazard of modern Technomancers!

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

yes, I realized that just recently and this is what was bothering me as I mentioned before.

After reading mahamudra songs and teachings, where I read about the feeling for fuel stuff, I started to ponder this a lot.
Than I had a lucid dream, where I asked a person in it, what is the point of a dream. And than he showed me pictures of my young self as a kid. Than a day after this dream I had meditation and I connected the point.

When I was a kid I was without language and not thinking thoughts, but was communicating with emotions.

But now as an adult, I know words and thoughts, but without emotion.

seems like everything is upside down.

: )

originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

yes, I realized that just recently and this is what was bothering me as I mentioned before.

After reading mahamudra songs and teachings, where I read about the feeling for fuel stuff, I started to ponder this a lot.
Than I had a lucid dream, where I asked a person in it, what is the point of a dream. And than he showed me pictures of my young self as a kid. Than a day after this dream I had meditation and I connected the point.

When I was a kid I was without language and not thinking thoughts, but was communicating with emotions.

But now as an adult, I know words and thoughts, but without emotion.

seems like everything is upside down.

: )

We destroyed the habitat which formed us.

And now we expect to be spiritual?

Kev

a reply to: UniFinity

I hope you don't mind if I offer a suggestion about "nonverbal emotional thinking" -

- well, more like how I 'learned' to do it (by accident, really)

Okay, it's sort of a two 'part' thing - the "emotional" part you can probably already do, we all can experience our emotions without attaching words to them -

- so here's how I 'discovered' the ability to do "nonverbal thinking":

I became fascinated by quantum physics and bought the book, "The Fabric of the Cosmos" by Physicist Brian Greene - really well written in as close to layman's terms as such a complicated subject can be done...

...And as I read (and re-read) the book, I would find myself able to understand these complex concepts as long as I didn't try to put my understanding into words (like trying to explain it to someone else)...

...it's almost a visual thing, but not 'distinctly' visual -
- you have probably had the same type of thing happen in some of your more complicated esoteric reading, you just never noticed it happening, because the idea of the 'form' of your grasp on the material (nonverbal understanding) had never been brought to your attention.

So, basically, read stuff that you find utterly fascinating that is also quite complicated, and focus on noticing those moments when you get (with no words involved) that 'flash' of understanding of an entire idea..

Once you learn to recognize it, you can practice doing it on purpose and add in the 'emotional' aspect, et voila - you have "nonverbal emotional thinking"..

I hope I've written that in a way that makes sense -

- warning: you may find that getting 'used to' nonverbal thinking can cause you to begin having difficulty 'translating' your thinking into words which fully convey your meaning..

a reply to: lostgirl

Not bad at all.

You are basically converging Realization-avoidant rational thinking with non-verbal thinking..
which is generally the second stage.

Some people call "non-verbal thinking" Grokking.
Some people call "realization-avoidant rational thinking" Priming.

These are great, great tools.

Each technique is worth several pages of discussion and (more importantly) examples.

These are actually basic purification steps..and self-healing steps to take.

Otherwise, if you don't learn to think properly, you'll take in sludge from the world..
mix it liberally with your own wounded sense of self.. and push the sludge forms around
in your head --- and never actually live free at all.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

exactly.

we sure are wired foolish beings.

we had everything from start and than we throw all away for something fake. And than after sometime, when we had enough of chasing tails, some start to search within. Only to discover that what was foolishly thrown away and forgotten was all the time part of us. We are just too perverted to realize this.

talk about irony.

originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

exactly.

we sure are wired foolish beings.

we had everything from start and than we throw all away for something fake. And than after sometime, when we had enough of chasing tails, some start to search within. Only to discover that what was foolishly thrown away and forgotten was all the time part of us. We are just too perverted to realize this.

talk about irony.

You can't truly appreciate something until after you've lost it.

And sometimes it takes a grit of sand to make a pearl.

But yah, we are shaping up to be one of those species who don't make it.

Kev

a reply to: lostgirl

NO! I don't mind at all, thank you very much! I wish even more people would give their opinion about it. This is not connected with spirituality or religions but with our true nature after all. This bypasses all our systems and concepts and is something basic, but totally overlooked.

It is a great insight and I know exactly what you are saying. This happens all the time to me after reading some spiritual wisdom and I start to dissect it with thoughts and suddenly I realize although I know it by intuition. But I can't explain it to myself - or others.

You have helped me gain more clarity!

Please, share more of your thoughts if you feel like it. I will certainly read them.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: UniFinity

Non-verbal thinking is what babies do...and animals.

I was aware in the womb so it was easy to carry forward.

Just think with Your feelings...no need for words.

It's only words that chop things up. Only words which confuse.

When you stop polluting yourself with mysticism, spirituality and religion, the war between man and nature is over.

The symbiotic lives flow one into the other.

Kev

But as with everything else: if you overdo it it becomes harmfull.

I don't know why everybody seems to have such a negativ view of modern living? I like my tablet, notebook, a hot shower, the coffee machine...
And i was walking through mountains and had nothing with me, but it is good to have a roof you don't have to stag together each night.
Nature is our enemy and it was from the very beginning. One of the oldest tales we tell, is the flood. Which was a massive traumatising event for baby human culture.
To live symbiotic with it is impossible, we steal from it, rape it and try to subdue it and in return it tries to kill us. Since always.

And words and nonverbal thinking are not our natural state. Neither of them is. We are perverted animals and the price we have to pay is, we are trapped in between.
Logos and animus.

a reply to: Peeple

Like I've said 50 times, the Universe doesn't give a crap what we do.

But humans aren't being sustainable.

Which is still fine.

But your happy technological life may not be possible for humans in a few
hundred years (in all likelyhood).. which again, the Universe doesn't care
about.

I don't glorify the past.. (I don't fall prey to the logical fallacy of the golden age).

But humans are evolving to be increasingly insane, due to destroying their habitat, their culture, their families, and their brain cells.

Which again is fine.

Frankly I have nothing against technology.. and humans can even destroy the entire Earth and consume it like an egg yolk and break out of it like a chick, and destroy all habitable worlds in the Universe if they can do it.. and maybe they will.

Personally ugliness and foolishness isn't my thing. I can't speak for others. After all,

It's a group decision to be terminally stupid.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

We are already changing people are willing to save the nature, it isn't their fault most of what is done to do so by the bigheads is a scam.
But here in germany i actually never once met someone who wasn't deeply concerned about polution and climate change.

The biggest problem is the attitude you mentioned, like everyone would have some supernatural being protecting them. Silly, stupid, eventually fatal....

What we would have to do, right now, is outsourcing producing industries to planets without atmosphere, or even better the moon, because it is basically free fall for the transport from there to earth.

As everything i guess it is just a phase. We will learn analyse and find a solution.
But that's going off topic now....

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

We are already changing people are willing to save the nature, it isn't their fault most of what is done to do so by the bigheads is a scam.
But here in germany i actually never once met someone who wasn't deeply concerned about polution and climate change.

The biggest problem is the attitude you mentioned, like everyone would have some supernatural being protecting them. Silly, stupid, eventually fatal....

What we would have to do, right now, is outsourcing producing industries to planets without atmosphere, or even better the moon, because it is basically free fall for the transport from there to earth.

As everything i guess it is just a phase. We will learn analyse and find a solution.
But that's going off topic now....

It's up to BD what is off-topic. I think that discussing foolish human behavior is entirely on-topic.

As for Germany.. I loved the bakeries there.. full of yummy strudel. I watched like 70 year-old people sweeping the streets in front of their shops.. everything was tidy. I had a lady chase me down and give me some marks and help me find the post office.. as she saw I was a GI and she was grateful for what Americans did.

My 2 years of Deutsch auf Hoch Schule didn't do much for me.. I'm terrible at it.

But I did enjoy Wilhelmshaven the few days that I was there.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

would you care to explain this part:

Some people call "non-verbal thinking" Grokking.
Some people call "realization-avoidant rational thinking" Priming.

These are great, great tools.

Each technique is worth several pages of discussion and (more importantly) examples.

what are all the stages in your opinion and if you would maybe throw in one short example for each if that is not to much.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Yeah no, if you would live here you'd see how messed up germans are. Super anal about the facade dirty pigs about the interieur. Not exactly what i like. They keep it tidy to hide the schizophrenic mess.
Show a german a line and he will wait in it, even if he doesn't know what for. Massive alcohol issues and also elitist racists... I hate it, but maybe i would hate every other country too, if i would know them better.

I like France and italy. But thanks for not going all nazi on me. That's what usually happens...

a reply to: Peeple

Yeah, but their public restrooms are amazeballs. I've never seen bathroom stalls with so much privacy in my entire life.

EDIT: No bueno on Paris. Dirty, drab, crowded ... boring. Not romatic to me at ALL. And contrary to everyone's beliefs ... bad food is everywhere in Paris. I didn't find it "romantic" at all. I'd never take a female there.

Rome, however, oh yeah. At least the buildings were painted COLORS. Paris was just drab grey. It was almost depressing. It was always overcast. Grey, grey, grey. Smelly, noisy, grey.

Rome on the other hand was vibrant with flowers and ...well, flowery people too. And I ate on the same budget at the same "type" places...easily had better table wine and better food when just shooting in the dark. The people are way cooler/laid-back.

I got lost in Rome at like 2am, I turn a corner..."Oh hey...(I drunkenly slur) the Pantheon...cool!" In Paris I'd probably turn a corner and trip over a homeless person.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

That's true Paris has some major problems. But the nicest people and helpfull ones i have ever met, were all in france. And the country is beautiful, especially South France!

The food in italy👌 but don't remind me of that i currently am on a fasting cure and now i want scampi...