Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

I suppose all of this can and does exist since it can be imagined.

Which begs the question...

Is imagination what we think it is? Original ideas and thoughts cobbled together from preexisting ones? Or bleed through information from nearby alternate timelines and dimensions?

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Both I imagine.

But nobody knows anything for certain, other than we feel things, such as pleasure and suffering, which certainly SEEM to have a certain reality to them.

Everything that we think and do must revolve around how little we know "for certain".

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Exactly. I come to the same conclusion, what is it we can say for certain?

Cut that possible feedback. A few things are subjective, sure, but you still know. If you're in love hungry, tired, playful, ... Nobody questioned that and it happens in the same place, the brain.
Uncertainty as a way to increase productivity? Of what? Paranoia?

a reply to: Peeple

"I think, therefore I am" got stuck in the craw of everybody for a while. I think Kafka is somewhere laughing his a$$ off right about now.

I have this written on my white board over my shoulder: Deduction, Induction, Abduction (it has a crudely drawn grey below it for giggles! I really miss giggles!). Those are the ways of knowing. A ball is thrown in the air, it falls back to earth. This happens with everything so it can generally be expected that any object hefted into the ethers will slam back to earth because of gravity. Then some strange triangle object starts buzzing laps around your city for 20-30 minutes. So I simply stated, "Heeeeyyyy! Parking garages are not supposed to do THAT!" (Parking structures are the largest thing my limiter could think of at the time) What do you do when the expected doesn't happen? About as strange as the unexpected happening.

a reply to: Peeple

The only thing we know for certain is that we don't now anything for certain...

At least, it seems that way!

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Reminds me (or external stimulus making thoughts in me caught from your unwashed meme hands) ...

it's like the simulation/god question ... ascribing those seemingly muse inspired amazing thoughts one occasionally gets to another universe or version just puts off the genesis of the thought one step... .doesn't mean it isn't valid though.

I've certainly had dreams and thoughts that seemed to be broadcast from "elsewhere" as they seemed well beyond my own hardware... as in a Muse.

Sigh... we really are just stimuli response automatons most of the time, but it's that rare "original" thought that makes up for humanity's robotic legions... it would be a shame if even those came from "elsewhere" ... a shame, but not really surprising... no matter how 'rainbows and ponies' my views on the human condition are, I can still see the base realities ... but it doesn't mean there isn't something else riding the robots around, either.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Gnostic Agnosticism through gnosis that we don't know poop ... I love the smell of infinite regression in the morning... er afternoon... delightful!

Oh, btw, between my city emptying out for the summer and certain fav posters disappearing from ATS, I wonder if the Mendela Effects are us simply shifting universes until we find a suitable one... and as I find myself more isolated, wonder if in a few weeks, we'll all find ourselves in the most suitable 'verse of all ... alone in a misanthropic 'verse consisting of ourselves?

Hmmm ... I wonder how far the Trickster/others can go? Is that a possible scenario for a 'favorite' human loosh producer? Sigh, that possible lack of autonomy over one's own universe is at the base of these ofttimes scary musings... we know nothing and might be playthings of the (seemingly mercurial as us) gods.

originally posted by: Baddogma
Oh, btw, between my city emptying out for the summer and certain fav posters disappearing from ATS, I wonder if the Mendela Effects are us simply shifting universes until we find a suitable one... and as I find myself more isolated, wonder if in a few weeks, we'll all find ourselves in the most suitable 'verse of all ... alone in a misanthropic 'verse consisting of ourselves?

Just in general, the whole mood of everything has gone strange. Some pick up on it and others do not. Is it genetic memory? Anyway, just wondering if we are the illegal immigrants in a new verse that picks up the vibe through our genetic memory we are not wanted? Then the inner punks pipes up, "Nah! We are just rats in a age" (Fear, Let's Have A War).

I think Peeple picked up on this idea. [Just typing this up, keep getting idioms backwards?] It is like talking about lice and then starting to scratch yourself. Self-psycho-somatic symbiants-syllables manifesting. Are we going to be mages and wizards that can produce matter out of thin air? Seems like we are already producing emotions out of thin air that cause us to act upon them. Most people do not even care how they drive so why would it be ay different with manifesting reality? "Who can even pronounce "Berenstein" anyway? I like "Berenstain" it is much easier" and they all star and flag the post that we can't even see so grows an ME.

In summary, a good slogan is always needed, "Manifest Reality Destiny" because you do not even need a driver's license anymore!

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Well nes and yo.
A metaphor would be, you look at a cloud, you don't know it's vaporised water, but someone somewhere will get wet. Certainly.
That's where we should spud in. Am I wet? Under what conditions do I get wet? Always, often sometimes, occasionally?
Are there other perceivable changes in my environment, right before, during and after?


That could be a way to describe how it works, imho.
I love my beings made up of possibilities. The background noise in our brain, is like a mobile phone next to an old tv, interference from a different spectrum, making waves... maybe.

If you really observe yourself, what do you do, say, feel, or think during a day, seemingly without a precursor?
Does it keep you on/away from something, steer you in a certain direction?

But it really is like with the fairies discussed earlier, if you name (define) it, you better make sure it fits!
They seem to have a strong aversion against arbitrary certainties.

I bet it's just an issue of suppressed data, we could estimate with a much higher possibility, if we could just communicate without exaggeration or without withholding.

But I am wet

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

abduction wiki "the lawn is wet".

I swear I looked that up, after I answered MystikMushroom!

Again, coincidence, synchronicity, confirmation bias? How am I supposed to evaluate that?





And even maths is on my side, probability one (ATS thread)

So what do we do?
Search research partners? Whom?
Psychologists?
Condition would be they are open for working under the premise,
It exists.
And are interested to find out
what it is.
But ideally are not infected (yet?)

Any ideas? What are our options?

Add: and why do I keep thinking the colonel john b. alexander should be our military contact? This is it, isn't it?
What we've been breeded and trained for?
One Earth Army reporting for duty.
Just with no need to take orders, we don't respect hierarchy and we all individually bear the responsibility for our actions.

I say in a parallel universe...

I think after a while, you loose out on living life if you spend to much time trying to "figure it out".

It's kind of like this:

I could spend all day tearing apart a TV to figure out how it works and understand the function of each piece, and the underlying science behind each and every part of it...

Or I could read a brief summary and then plop down and just enjoy it for what it is. It's not total ignorance, but maybe -- just maybe we invented that tv for us to sit and watch, not endlessly pour over the details...because then we have to endlessly create more details for us to examine if we keep examining the details..

I dunno.

I just wanna watch TV sometimes and be entertained.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Sure, if it's not for you, let others negotiate a compromise, finding the unification formula, do the maths, make music, take care of their pets, ...

Pursuit your happiness. That's what it is about. The difference we are fighting for.

a reply to: Peeple

Yup.

It's the way the human race has evolved.

Some people do the hard work.

Others plop in front of the TV.

I do understand.

I love taking Saturdays off myself.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

No, I truly believe people would find something they like, what they're nerds for, if they wouldn't have to worry about living as much.
You know, a right to have a home, right to do what what interests me, maybe travel more, start a company, become an inventer, be with friends, or not, ...
All You want.
Basic income, become your own boss. Go out to support others pursuing their hapiness,
Help economy to recover.

It's true, some would just consume, but that's what we need, with robots at work, computers trading and booking,
Some would also like to have something they are good at, find that and pursue that, even if it's seemingly absurd, like becoming flower pot designer, alpaca hairstylist, collector of flee circus stages from the 19th century, something boring like an artist, or a mighty political trolling activist,
With your basic income, you could have all that bought and/or built.

"The only thing that's left to do is dance" (frank turner)

a reply to: Peeple

I don't disagree with that.

But us "useless eaters" won't be given the chance.

I WISH that we could evolve into "Star Trek Humans" or wise mystical humans.

But the future is decimation and forced cyber implantation.

I hate it.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I don't know, but as I see it, it's just one of those "freak mutants" we produce to explore evolutionary alleys.
Will we accept it? Will we fight it? How many want to find out what's this about,
We spend our money to support how we'd want it to be.

High stress, on the edge of death every day, you focus on what's making you immortal!
Procreate,
Stories and art,
All the pseudo-scientific stuff like the deep freeze bs, becoming robots, virtual beings,
Become a martyr,
That's all just personal taste.

But I also agree, I hate it, won't happen.
And if someone forces me I'll fight it.

And also, sorry I am a little bit pro decimation.
Quality not quantity.

Wouldn't it be lovely if the ones who are nerds for being a mommy could afford to be that, and the ones who just find in the haste of the moment not what they're nerds for and think that means couching and sweet lovely moments, or bread many to increase your own income, or whatever some think, just take a vacation instead.

Basic Income.
Your saviour!


And honestly I am politically open minded enough to add,
You should be retracable to your birth place
Your home country is responsible for you.

But if money is the blood of our economy and we're almost flatlining,
Maybe it is time to stimulate the flow?

Sorry too much trump and politcs, I apologise.

It has seemed to me for quite some time, that if indeed there are major factions trying to engineer the future of the human race, that two of the major factions are:

1) Have humans breed uncontrollably, and "use them" in a mystical manner. I'm not big on "Loosh" as you know, but that's certainly one interpretation.. maximize population then harvest. That's rather slash and burn agriculture though.. I don't think that's wise. If you are going to harvest humans, it would be wise to do so sustainably.. and even more important, help increase science and fill up other planets with them. We DO seem to be heading towards colonizing mars, so one can't say this wont' be the future for us.

2) Decimate and cyber implant. There certainly seems to be a faction that wishes to do this.. there are too many humans for the ecological carrying capacity of the Earth and us "useless eaters" are taking resources away from the 1% who wish to decimate and cyber implant.

One could hypothesize that there are two non-human factions behind this if you wish.. perhaps a strictly "dark, cold plasma civilization" that likes large fields of humans; and another which goes NOT wish for there to be large fields of humans.. say the "space imps" who seem quite Xenophobic.

Of course the Occam's scalpel approach is that humans breed uncontrollably because it's fun and they are too immature to control their reproduction, and that the asshole's in charge, the 1% want to lock in control forever, and not share "their resources" so they are aching to decimate and implant control devices. "Useless eaters" goes back to pre-Henry Kissenger.. it's not a big secret.

Iv'e heard many hypothesize or prognosticate about the "two futures", including variations on supposed "hopi" prophesies.

Just talking out-loud.

Kev

a reply to: Peeple

I agree that there are at least 6 billion too many humans.

It's hard to dispute.

I also agree - quality is better than quantity.

But who chooses who is the quality?

That's always been the ugly issue.

People say, "so if there are too many humans, do you volunteer to die"

To which i answer, "Yes, of course.". I've lived 54 years, that's enough.

But If I'm going to die, when I'm still (actually) doing my best work ever
I'd need to know that the other 6 billion are going to be dying with me..

I don't mind sacrificing.. if it really is for the common good.

Kev