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Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

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posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 03:48 PM
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a reply to: johnb




I would love them to be real but it is difficult to believe one has never fallen into a river and been washed up downstream for all to see. So if they are real I lean to a more 'woo' answer


What if they bury their dead? Or eat them all up? Or smoke them and build underground vaults to store them...

They might though, which is why they don't leave bodies around. I remember the Bhutan yetis from some documentary, which also had 'proof' they existed, in the shape of the 'Nazi Yeti':




Priceless.

It apparently came from Ernst Schafer's SS visit to Tibet and has to be the single worst recreation of a yeti in existence (I would guess - might be accurate?? )




posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 01:37 AM
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originally posted by: johnb
a reply to: Anaana

Found this quote today which is more 'on topic'


What?!? You consider the processes of nature less than magical and therefore "off-topic"? Interesting.


originally posted by: johnb

"I abandoned the extraterrestrial hypothesis in 1967 when my own field investigations disclosed an astonishing overlap between psychic phenomena and UFOs... The objects and apparitions do not necessarily originate on another planet and may not even exist as permanent constructions of matter. It is more likely that we see what we want to see and interpret such visions according to our contemporary beliefs." -John Keel


Isn't it funny how they all just "abandon" their studies when they find themselves bumping up against the boundaries of what they believe in, or when they can no longer confirm their bias? Very few seem willing to challenge their own beliefs, preferring to just walk away or stay stuck in the same mire ignoring everything that contradicts their worldview. There is comfort in the familiar I suppose.

I don't know what that is, it's like the opposite of curiousity.

*shrug*



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 03:12 AM
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a reply to: Anaana

ah no sorry replied to wrong person



originally posted by: lostgirl
Just to contribute to the 'green' talk (and since we're being "polite" in our "discussion" in "general", I guess we could consider ourselves 'on topic'?)...


edit on 17-4-2016 by johnb because: (formatting)


So was lost I was really replying too but wasn't being too serious anyway hence the ' ' round on topic


and Beans' I just mean if they were a 'normal dumb beast' (no such thing but using to try and explain) then surely at least one must have had a heart attack/accident and toppled off the trail/cliff into a river whilst it was in flood and been washed downstream to a human settlement - it happens to sheep,goats,bears, moose... you see what i mean?
Which would make it more likely they are 'woo' in some way if they exist.
edit on 17-4-2016 by johnb because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 04:52 AM
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a reply to: Anaana




Isn't it funny how they all just "abandon" their studies when they find themselves bumping up against the boundaries of what they believe in, or when they can no longer confirm their bias? Very few seem willing to challenge their own beliefs, preferring to just walk away or stay stuck in the same mire ignoring everything that contradicts their worldview. There is comfort in the familiar I suppose. I don't know what that is, it's like the opposite of curiousity.


It's bonkers. What is really odd is that they all fall back to the old stories and say well, they must be those 'things' that are always here but we don't know what they are. It then just becomes a circular discussion and they get a get-out of jail free card.
How much did they genuinely believe in what they were investigating in the first place? Or were they just spinning lies from the start? It must be the only 'profession' on the planet where you can retire with the conclusion "dunno".



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 05:04 AM
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a reply to: johnb

They could be made of woo, it's true.

I like the thought of them being animals though. As Baddog says, his professors have got evidence for them but they must be nearly extinct by now. So why not leave them alone? I would guess that rather than an almighty cover-up, we just don't know.
It is rather suspect that no one has ever recovered a body, which would suggest they aren't real animals at all. Whatever happened to that vet, Ketchum and her sleeping yeti?

a reply to: Baddogma

If your bins were knocked over, it's kids. If not, then my only guess is that 'they' don't want you to forget about them. You didn't say 'come in' I hope?

edit on 17-4-2016 by beansidhe because: eta



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 05:42 AM
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a reply to: Anaana

I think it is beautiful from one to the other might not be such a big step, after all.
As in the hessdalen lights . 200 years ago it would have been obviously faeries, in our modern folklore it was aliens, now we know it is mother nature, Artemis.
I think it's pretty.
And to change ones opinion in light of new information, is more beneficial than holding on to one's bias and bending the facts to make them fit the theory. We did that long enough.



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 12:01 AM
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originally posted by: johnb
a reply to: Anaana

Found this quote today which is more 'on topic'



"I abandoned the extraterrestrial hypothesis in 1967 when my own field investigations disclosed an astonishing overlap between psychic phenomena and UFOs... The objects and apparitions do not necessarily originate on another planet and may not even exist as permanent constructions of matter. It is more likely that we see what we want to see and interpret such visions according to our contemporary beliefs." -John Keel


What I want to know, is if every last religious, spiritual, cultural and UFO person were to give up their favorite personal mythos, and all switched to believing in the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man only.. would we summon him up?

It also bears mentioning, that instead of us just 'seeing what we want to see', it would be equally valid to say that perhaps the Other experiments with seeing itself according to what it finds in our minds, and/or through our minds.

All our brains together, are a vast simulation platform...That's just basic high school science.

Yes, it might be valid to say that 'we' are in a matrix. But our vast sea of brains is also a "matrix" that other lifeforms may use for their purposes. And even the cells in our bodies might be a 'functional matrix' for yet something else.

It's more like inception than 'matrix'.

I think that that humans biggest metaphysical/philosophical shortcoming, is in failing to realize that these fabulous brains of our ARE "the matrix" for that which bedevils us... that our bodies and nervous systems are also wave guides...

FYI, real life has been interfering most robustly.. health.. employment.. home improvement.. all hitting me at once.


Kev



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 12:11 AM
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originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: Anaana




Isn't it funny how they all just "abandon" their studies when they find themselves bumping up against the boundaries of what they believe in, or when they can no longer confirm their bias? Very few seem willing to challenge their own beliefs, preferring to just walk away or stay stuck in the same mire ignoring everything that contradicts their worldview. There is comfort in the familiar I suppose. I don't know what that is, it's like the opposite of curiousity.


It's bonkers. What is really odd is that they all fall back to the old stories and say well, they must be those 'things' that are always here but we don't know what they are. It then just becomes a circular discussion and they get a get-out of jail free card.
How much did they genuinely believe in what they were investigating in the first place? Or were they just spinning lies from the start? It must be the only 'profession' on the planet where you can retire with the conclusion "dunno".


Did you ever read "Childhood's End" by Arthur C. Clark, or see it on TV a few months back?

In that book, these "devil looking aliens" basically gave humans all the answers, and fixed all their problems.

Humans basically died out intellectually and emotionally after that.. and soon went extinct.

I often wonder if there is a "limiter / safety device" inside of all of us, and once any of us gets too close to "the truth" we instantly shy away to avoid learning what we say that we want to learn so badly.

I often wonder if the "Universe" as a whole might do this on some levels.

Because once you "know the answer", then you die.

Well that's how it worked for me anyway.. I felt sucked 95% dry after junior left the nest.

It's interesting that I'm still alive..

Kev



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 01:57 AM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

When you realize, or become to "self actualized" you begin to function sort of like a black hole. One begins to draw to much novelty their direction -- and this comes in the form of good and bad things (which is all relative anyway). Bad would be something like dying.

Or I suppose you could say as one's metaphysical/spiritual mass increases they eventually self-destruct under their own weight and the objects being sucked at them.

Unfortunately, when the veil is lifted and one sees the true nature of things (and themselves reflected back at themselves) some people, just go plain crazy. Depersonalization-derealization syndrome can occur, and people can run around claiming everyone around them is fake, that they're living in a dream or matrix or that they are "God".



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 01:59 AM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I wouldn't say once you know the answer you die...

Because, were you ever really "alive" to begin with?



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 02:28 AM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

It's my understanding if you were an idiot in life, you are the same afterwards, there is no miraculous awakening .



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 02:51 AM
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originally posted by: beansidhe
It's bonkers. What is really odd is that they all fall back to the old stories and say well, they must be those 'things' that are always here but we don't know what they are. It then just becomes a circular discussion and they get a get-out of jail free card.
How much did they genuinely believe in what they were investigating in the first place? Or were they just spinning lies from the start? It must be the only 'profession' on the planet where you can retire with the conclusion "dunno".


Now, beanie I credited you with a little more self-awareness than that, surely you can see that you could easily change at least a couple of those "they"s to "we" or even "I" or "me". I know, at times, I could. We are all part of this situation and we all walk away from explanations that don't continue to satisfy, unless the ties that bind us to those explanations extend into physical or social relationships. Like people who keep going to church or temple "for appearances sake" long after they have admitted their lack of belief to themselves. We all, at times, take the path most travelled because companionship is an integral part of who we are, and striking out into new territory is frightening and uncertain.

"I don't know" is a highly legitimate response, I just find it surprising that so many choose to follow that admission with a cease and desist. I suspect it is one thing to step outside your own box, quite another to step outside of society's, and so they simply retreat to a point from which they can maintain the illusion of certainty, that, seems to be based upon primary indoctrination or conditioning.



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 03:03 AM
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originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Anaana

I think it is beautiful from one to the other might not be such a big step, after all.
As in the hessdalen lights . 200 years ago it would have been obviously faeries, in our modern folklore it was aliens, now we know it is mother nature, Artemis.
I think it's pretty.
And to change ones opinion in light of new information, is more beneficial than holding on to one's bias and bending the facts to make them fit the theory. We did that long enough.


That's a new one on me. While I understand that there is a cherry-picking trend for bending history to invent personal belief structures, and while I would normally just pass over such posts, I'm presuming that you are being tongue in cheek, but if not, whatever gets you through the night and all that, and I apologies for any possible offence, but I am curious, what would Artemis be doing in Norway...and if it's "Mother Nature", to what purpose?

You definately proved the case in point though, intentionally or otherwise.




posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I wouldn't say once you know the answer you die...

Because, were you ever really "alive" to begin with?


You speak the truth. But it feels like dying..



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 09:13 AM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

Yup. I'd say that 99 out of 100 people fall prey to that process..of the tiny handful of humans ever to live who make it that far.

It is very difficult to retake the blue pill after taking the red one.

One tries to do that for both the sake of compassion and some shred of false self preservation.

Living without a false self is very uncomfortable at first.

Kev



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

Btw...since you are in rare form today...

Yes, I did undergo the full nonduality thing...as in "Enlightenment the damndest thing", etc.

I know that the Universe tells stories to itself and that living beings are just a portion of those stories. I know that there is no point to awakening really...its just another story. There is nobody to awaken.

But.

The story of Kevin doesn't like nihilism...there is more to it than that.

Matter and energy and brains and many components are "real" and worth discussing.

If you take it as far as the new agers do, you rocket past the point of truth...and go insane.

Nonduality is A truth...a major one.

But there is more to say....if the Universe feels like discussing it.

Its optional though.

Everything is optional.

Even "awakening".

Kev



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 11:52 AM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

well I would just like to make something clear, because I feel that needs to be said.

From what I understand how and what happens in meditation depends on:
- original intent for doing spiritual practice (ego/altruism)
- state of current emotion
- state of mind and what View one has about ultimate reality
- the object of meditation or absorption or samadhi
- past karma

let's say, just in case if I would read your posts while I was wavering about meditation, I would probably avoid it due to bad impression I get from your experiences you are willing to share.

Well, I am saying this for the readers to understand that we each have our OWN experiences due to the factors stated above and probably due to many other things known and still unknown to me.

now I fill focus a bit on you, I hope it will do some good : )

I think that ultimate reality is not nihilism and not something opposite to it, but it is right in the middle!
Well this is what the old buddhist teach and they even mention traps about such extreme stances and how they should be avoided. This is very precious point to ultimate reality for them and also during meditation.

I think that you lack a bit of understanding of the ultimate reality, but this is not coming from my experience, that is just the feeling I get from what I read and feel from your lines and what I read and feel from others spiritual masters.

You say you are a failed shaman, but if you are still doing spiritual practice, than spiritual perfection or complete emancipation should be your end aim and I feel it still is, in my opinion. i think we both feel and known deep inside It can be done and there is a way out of illusions for good and when this happens death is not a curse but a pleasure for such master! I understand why you say what you say about failed shaman, but you have not failed you have succeeded where others shamans have not in my opinion.

Also I have an idea about your book. And I hope it is going well!
From spiritual devotee as myself, precise instructions are of most important. So I think that somewhere in your book there should be an explanation about your understanding about:
- the view
- the practice
- the action
- the experiences
- the accomplishments

I am still absorbed in buddhist sutras and tantra and in them they are very good instructions and explanations about these things...it makes a lot easier to absorb their main points and wisdom. Maybe you could write a thing or two about these things on your blog or here...if you want to share.

Sorry if any of this offended you, it was not meant that way at all and it may be that it is even inappropriate for me to say this, but what the heck, I still did it, I hope it was not a mistake. It is meant as an encouragement, that bliss and happiness can be on the table even for you even now and even if you think you have it figured it out more or less...if you are not happy 100% and if your body is causing you to feel pain, sorry you are not there....yet, in my opinion!

You are clinging to something during absorption? Maybe I don't know. But the real experience of void is blissful and final understanding is when void and bliss are natural as breathing. Do you have that experience?

I bow to you in respect and I don't mean anything bad with this post. heck I am just a rookie compared to your experiences and wisdom!
This is something it was in me for a while and I finally decided to share this now, while I still have the chance to catch you here. I have only the best wishes and I hope you soon get better and happy, all together with your beloved wife and pups!
edit on 1460999034403April034033016 by UniFinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 11:59 AM
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a reply to: UniFinity

I say failed for the sake of others.

Thanks for sharing with me.

Kev



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: UniFinity

Void awareness is not intended to be perpetually before ones awareness. That is misinformation.

So much of spirituality is misinformation.

"Masters" experience as many bumps as anyone else. Life is not a respector of person's...not even "masters" or "shaman".

There are a lot of delusions baked into the belief that spiritual paths exist.

Even the word spiritual is so rancid it must needs be replaced.

The Universe does talk to itself...some of those conversations involve humans.

But it's best not to mystify simple truths more than necessary.

So perhaps you see that your concerns might have nothing to do with reality at all.

Humans worry about spiritual paths and attainment. The Universe, as it prefers no state over another state plays along....the Universe always plays along.

Kev



posted on Apr, 18 2016 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

oh is that so?

I was under the impression that you have grown a bit differently (or more) than an ordinary shaman would, I don't know why exactly if I am honest ... in reality you are my first shaman I talked to.
but I feel that your insight is greater than it is for "normal" spiritual people or shamans.

And that is why I thought you like to call yourself failed shaman... : )

oh well, you are great no matter what and I will never forget your posts here...well to be more honest...let's say I will not forget a few things you shared about instructions of the two steps and few other things.
...you posted to much to remember ALL : )
edit on 1461000524428April284283016 by UniFinity because: (no reason given)




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